Vuelta 2011

[Skip Madness]

What rule are you referring to?

It's just a phrase... "they didn't read the rulebook' (ie. they have no idea about how they should be doing things)

I'd have less issues if Farrapona was categorised as E than I had with Navacerrada north being 1, but this is partly subjective.

Subjective indeed! That's why I love these kind of discussions. For me Navacerrada north sustains a serious enough gradient for just long enough to make it a distinguishable test from, say, Cotos.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There is no 'E' category in the Vuelta anymore. They completely overhauled the mountain points system so that now it conforms to the same rules as the Giro -

Cat.3 = 3 2 1
Cat.2 = 5 3 1
Cat.1 = 10 6 4 2 1
MTF = 15 10 6 4 2
One special, above-all categorised climb (like the Cima Coppi - last year it was Bola del Mundo) = 20 15 10 6 4 2

I would assume that Angliru will be the special-category climb this year.

I wonder if they might start to be as stingy with their mountains points too - the Passo Tonale was categorised as cat.2 in the Giro when not used as an MTF, though the Colle delle Finestre was given a special rating in 2005 (17 11 8 6 4 2 or something like that) to award it more points than the significantly easier Sestrières climb that followed, but had the MTF 15 10 6 4 2 points. Hence the likes of Navacerrada North would drop to cat.2, Monachil would drop a category if it even awarded points at all, etc.

 

[Descender]

It's just a phrase... "they didn't read the rulebook' (ie. they have no idea about how they should be doing things)

Oh nevermind, I took it literally.

Subjective indeed! That's why I love these kind of discussions. For me Navacerrada north sustains a serious enough gradient for just long enough to make it a distinguishable test from, say, Cotos.

Still nothing more than a tough 2. Tougher than Cotos yes, Cotos has no km with a gradient higher than 6.5%... a standard 2.

But yes, I love these discussions too. Sometimes I have more fun with everything that surrounds a parcours than with the tour itself.

 

[Descender]

There is no 'E' category in the Vuelta anymore. They completely overhauled the mountain points system so that now it conforms to the same rules as the Giro -

Cat.3 = 3 2 1
Cat.2 = 5 3 1
Cat.1 = 10 6 4 2 1
MTF = 15 10 6 4 2
One special, above-all categorised climb (like the Cima Coppi - last year it was Bola del Mundo) = 20 15 10 6 4 2

I would assume that Angliru will be the special-category climb this year.

I wonder if they might start to be as stingy with their mountains points too - the Passo Tonale was categorised as cat.2 in the Giro when not used as an MTF, though the Colle delle Finestre was given a special rating in 2005 (17 11 8 6 4 2 or something like that) to award it more points than the significantly easier Sestrières climb that followed, but had the MTF 15 10 6 4 2 points. Hence the likes of Navacerrada North would drop to cat.2, Monachil would drop a category if it even awarded points at all, etc.

I just read the rulebook (the real one now lol) and you're right.

What a load of crap getting rid of the Especial category...

 

[DAOTEC]

on & off topic but anyway

.

Vuelta España 2015 will start in Drenthe - Holland again.

[http://wielerland.nl]

 

[khardung la]

It's just a phrase... "they didn't read the rulebook' (ie. they have no idea about how they should be doing things)

Subjective indeed! That's why I love these kind of discussions. For me Navacerrada north sustains a serious enough gradient for just long enough to make it a distinguishable test from, say, Cotos.

agreed, Navacerrada north is an "easy" 1st category, but clearly not a 2 cat. It was a 1st category for many years and rightly so.

 

[Descender]

agreed, Navacerrada north is an "easy" 1st category, but clearly not a 2 cat. It was a 1st category for many years and rightly so.

I disagree, but in any case, it can't be a 1st cat if 1 is the highest category. That would mean you include it in the same category as, say, this:

 

[halamala]

Vuelta a Espana, Official Route 2011

Stage Type Date Start and Finish Distance Details

1 Teams time-trial Saturday 20 August Benidorm > Benidorm 16,0 km
2 Plain Sunday 21 August La Nucía > Playas de Orihuela 171,5 km
3 Plain Monday 22 August Petrer > Totana 164,0 km
4 Mountains Tuesday 23 August Baza > Sierra Nevada 172,0 km
5 Plain Wednesday 24 August Sierra Nevada > Valdepeñas de Jaén 200,0 km
6 Plain Thursday 25 August Úbeda > Córdoba 185,7 km
7 Plain Friday 26 August Almadén > Talavera de la Reina 185,0 km
8 Mountains Saturday 27 August Talavera de la Reina > San Lorenzo de El Escorial 182,0 km
9 Mountains Sunday 28 August Villacastín > Sierra de Bejar. La Covatilla 179,5 km

Rest Day Monday 29 August

10 Time-trial Monday 30 August Salamanca > Salamanca 40,0 km
11 Mountains Wednesday 31 August Verín > Estación de Esquí Alto de la Manzaneda 171,0 km
12 Plain Thursday 01 September Ponteareas > Pontevedra 160,0 km
13 Mountains Friday 02 September Sarria > Ponferrada 150,0 km
14 Mountains Saturday 03 September Astorga > La Farrapona. Lagos de Somiedo 173,2 km
15 Mountains Sunday 04 September Avilés > Anglirú 144,0 km
16 Plain Tuesday 05 September Villa Romana La Olmeda (Palencia) > Haro 180,0 km

Rest Day Tuesday 06 September

17 Mountains Wednesday - 07 September Faustino V > Peña Cabarga 212,5 km
18 Mountains Thursday 08 September Solares > Noja 169,7 km
19 Plain Friday 09 September Noja > Bilbao 157,9 km
20 Mountains Saturday 10 September Bilbao > Vitoria 187,0 km
21 Plain Sunday 11 September Circuito del Jarama > Madrid 94,0 km

[Lavuelta.com]

 

[The Hitch]

Vuelta a Espana, Official Route 2011

Stage Type Date Start and Finish Distance Details

1 Teams time-trial Saturday 20 August Benidorm > Benidorm 16,0 km
2 Plain Sunday 21 August La Nucía > Playas de Orihuela 171,5 km
3 Plain Monday 22 August Petrer > Totana 164,0 km
4 Mountains Tuesday 23 August Baza > Sierra Nevada 172,0 km
5 Plain Wednesday 24 August Sierra Nevada > Valdepeñas de Jaén 200,0 km
6 Plain Thursday 25 August Úbeda > Córdoba 185,7 km
7 Plain Friday 26 August Almadén > Talavera de la Reina 185,0 km
8 Mountains Saturday 27 August Talavera de la Reina > San Lorenzo de El Escorial 182,0 km
9 Mountains Sunday 28 August Villacastín > Sierra de Bejar. La Covatilla 179,5 km

Rest Day Monday 29 September

10 Time-trial Monday 30 August Salamanca > Salamanca 40,0 km
11 Mountains Wednesday 31 August Verín > Estación de Esquí Alto de la Manzaneda 171,0 km
12 Plain Thursday 01 September Ponteareas > Pontevedra 160,0 km
13 Mountains Friday 02 September Sarria > Ponferrada 150,0 km
14 Mountains Saturday 03 September Astorga > La Farrapona. Lagos de Somiedo 173,2 km
15 Mountains Sunday 04 September Avilés > Anglirú 144,0 km
16 Plain Tuesday 05 September Villa Romana La Olmeda (Palencia) > Haro 180,0 km

Rest Day Tuesday 06 September

17 Mountains Wednesday - 07 September Faustino V > Peña Cabarga 212,5 km
18 Mountains Thursday 08 September Solares > Noja 169,7 km
19 Plain Friday 09 September Noja > Bilbao 157,9 km
20 Mountains Saturday 10 September Bilbao > Vitoria 187,0 km
21 Plain Sunday 11 September Circuito del Jarama > Madrid 94,0 km

[Lavuelta.com]

Was there a presentation already?

 

[icefire]

Was there a presentation already?

It's tomorrow morning I think. But it seems that whoever maintains their web site doesn't want to get up early and has already posted the course before going home

 

[roundabout]

stage 13

stage 14

stage 15

 

[The Hitch]

It's tomorrow morning I think. But it seems that whoever maintains their web site doesn't want to get up early and has already posted the course before going home

lol. The lights went out at the team presentation last time afterall.
Do you know what time?

stage 14

]

This looks good. There arent any flat kilometers between the climbs so maybe just maybe someone with balls can have a go on the descent. Samuel Sanchez, the wind is calling you.

 

[icefire]

lol. The lights went out at the team presentation last time afterall.
Do you know what time?

12:00 cet

.

 

[The Hitch]

12:00 cet

.

****. THats the one time i cant watch it.

TSF will you be watching it?

 

[icefire]

****. THats the one time i cant watch it.

TSF will you be watching it?

Nope. But I've already seen all the profiles:

http://www.lavuelta.com/11pr/es/recorrido/index.html#z1

 

[The Hitch]

Nope. But I've already seen all the profiles:

http://www.lavuelta.com/11pr/es/recorrido/index.html#z1

TSF is Team Sky Fans. I ask him because he can record these things and put it on his website (or so he says )

I do have a question for you though. Do you know who will be there? Last time they had the big 3.

 

[icefire]

TSF is Team Sky Fans. I ask him because he can record these things and put it on his website (or so he says )

I do have a question for you though. Do you know who will be there? Last time they had the big 3.

Nibali and Antón are the only names listed in the web site as attending the presentation. I hope someone else joins them

 

[Mellow Velo]

Oh dear, what a shame. Another 8 mountaintop finishes!
(If I have counted them right.)
Perhaps I should call a couple of them them uphill.

 

[Descender]

stage 13

Looks like it's this:

http://www.altimetrias.net/aspbk/verPuerto.asp?id=297


They give another name to Sierra Morela, but it looks like Ancares isn't climbed by its hardest side. Balouta is still a legit HC though. Funny they don't categorise Lumeras but do it with Ocero, since the first one is harder.

stage 14

Best final 1-2 in the Vuelta ever in Spain. One of the best stages ever in the Vuelta. Pity about its position before the colossus.

stage 15

The Angliru doesn't need anything else, it's fine.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 3 places a cat.3 climb cresting 10-11km out. This could make for interesting racing and therefore is a good thing - the end of the descent looks to only be about 3km from the stripe.

Sierra Nevada will probably be raced fairly conservatively and thus make the first selection, but split the times fairly thinly like a super-long version of Montevergine or something.

Stage 5 is called a flat stage but features a cat.2 climb cresting 7-8km out and of course the awesome Valdepeñas de Jaén finish. I like.

Stage 6 features a cat.2 climb shortly before the finish. The official crest is 11km out but the climbing looks to be over to all intents and purposes a fair way before that. Nevertheless, it looks like the sprinters will have to work hard for their victory there. I don't mind a sprint if they've had to work for it.

Stage 7 is the kind of garbage I hate. Stage 8 looks more promising, an uphill finish after a sawtoothed stage with a few cat.2 and 3 climbs in the late running, should be one for the likes of Gilbert.

La Covatilla is the only climb in that stage, so I expect the time gaps will be quite small unless some hefty gaps have already been opened up.

Manzaneda after the TT looks fun, a long and gradual climb that will probably slow-burn. Hope for it to be like an Alto da Torre stage.

Stages 12 and 13 are probably ones for breakaways (depending on what the competition for the points jersey is like in stage 12's case), with the tough mountains in stage 13 but a flat run-in.

Stages 14 and 15 are obviously the big guns, the stages which we will expect to settle the Vuelta. Hope for them to be good.

16 is an unofficial rest day. Will Peña Cabarga be fought particularly toughly after its predecessors on 17 or is it just there for Igor Antón to get paranoid?

18 is one for the breakaway. 19 might be too, but Vivero is just difficult enough to tempt people if the race is still open. 20 is a bit of a waste since the final 45km are flat.

21 is a LOT of a waste since we were teased with the possibility of finishing off with an ITT, instead we get a tedious sprint parade. Finishing a Grand Tour with two sprint stages is one way to waste an awful lot of good work.

 

[nvpacchi]

Any reason why they pushed the start up a week early this year?

 

[Descender]

Overall better than last year.

 

[Descender]

The new HC climbs:

With the previous climb.

 

[jens_attacks]

unfortunately vuelta will always lack stages with three or four big passes before the mountaintop finish.
the stages that i like:4,14,15.
they should finish it with a big flat 50 km ITT.i still think it's wrong that in grand tours nowadays of 3500 kms just 40 are ITTs.
overall it's a vuelta that can be won again by a guy like nibali.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Vuelta a Espana, Official Route 2011

Stage Type Date Start and Finish Distance Details

1 Teams time-trial Saturday 20 August Benidorm > Benidorm 16,0 km
2 Plain Sunday 21 August La Nucía > Playas de Orihuela 171,5 km
3 Plain Monday 22 August Petrer > Totana 164,0 km
4 Mountains Tuesday 23 August Baza > Sierra Nevada 172,0 km
5 Plain Wednesday 24 August Sierra Nevada > Valdepeñas de Jaén 200,0 km
6 Plain Thursday 25 August Úbeda > Córdoba 185,7 km
7 Plain Friday 26 August Almadén > Talavera de la Reina 185,0 km
8 Mountains Saturday 27 August Talavera de la Reina > San Lorenzo de El Escorial 182,0 km
9 Mountains Sunday 28 August Villacastín > Sierra de Bejar. La Covatilla 179,5 km

Rest Day Monday 29 September

10 Time-trial Monday 30 August Salamanca > Salamanca 40,0 km
11 Mountains Wednesday 31 August Verín > Estación de Esquí Alto de la Manzaneda 171,0 km
12 Plain Thursday 01 September Ponteareas > Pontevedra 160,0 km
13 Mountains Friday 02 September Sarria > Ponferrada 150,0 km
14 Mountains Saturday 03 September Astorga > La Farrapona. Lagos de Somiedo 173,2 km
15 Mountains Sunday 04 September Avilés > Anglirú 144,0 km
16 Plain Tuesday 05 September Villa Romana La Olmeda (Palencia) > Haro 180,0 km

Rest Day Tuesday 06 September

17 Mountains Wednesday - 07 September Faustino V > Peña Cabarga 212,5 km
18 Mountains Thursday 08 September Solares > Noja 169,7 km
19 Plain Friday 09 September Noja > Bilbao 157,9 km
20 Mountains Saturday 10 September Bilbao > Vitoria 187,0 km
21 Plain Sunday 11 September Circuito del Jarama > Madrid 94,0 km

[Lavuelta.com]

never mind i just read it properly.

climbers must be loving the GT routes this year. Even Indurain wouldn't have a sniff.