Vuelta 2012, Stage 15: La Robla > Lagos de Covadonga (186,5 kms)

[Jelantik]

I was wondering... *forgive me for being naive*.. why putting your team mate in front and turn the screw, if at the end, Purito still have Moreno and Froome still got Henao and Uran. Both domestique seemed to pay divident to their team leader by pacing them up. Do you think STSB burned all their matches too soon maybe? Why not let Dani, Majka or Jesus follow and, let Sky or Katusha team drive the train? Seems to me Bertie got isolated once the last men peeled off. Bertie problem so far is… he can't sustain the attack. Therefore it would be nice if he got one of his gregarios to help him out? Or another thought, why not let the break away won the stage? In that case there's no bonus point to worry about? *hopefully this will force kathusha to chase since purito seems to be an expert on stealing the bonification*....

I have a feeling that Bertie wants the bonification *and the win of course* help too, to add more buffer to his gap if his attack successful maybe?

 

[SafeBet]

Then he can't win, because no one will be able to shake off Purito in his current form in short efforts.

I still think we don't know how everyone will hold up to long efforts, because we haven't seen any aside from the ITT.

Absolutely true.

Either Saxo makes the whole stage hard and he goes from far, or he has no chance (barring a bad day for Purito).

 

[Afrank]

I was wondering... *forgive me for being naive*.. why putting your team mate in front and turn the screw, if at the end, Purito still have Moreno and Froome still got Henao and Uran. Both domestique seemed to pay divident to their team leader by pacing them up. Do you think STSB burned all their matches too soon maybe? Why not let Dani, Majka or Jesus follow and, let Sky or Katusha team drive the train? Seems to me Bertie got isolated once the last men peeled off. Bertie problem so far is… he can't sustain the attack. Therefore it would be nice if he got one of his gregarios to help him out? Or another thought, why not let the break away won the stage? In that case there's no bonus point to worry about? *hopefully this will force kathusha to chase since purito seems to be an expert on stealing the bonification*....

I have a feeling that Bertie wants the bonification *and the win of course* help too, to add more buffer to his gap if his attack successful maybe?

Agree with the bolded, Saxo I think were doing a little too much work today. After all Katusha holds the jersey and Purito wants the bonus seconds to add to his overall lead. Saxo should let the other teams do some of the work in the next couple stages.

It would probably be smart to let the break win at least one stage too, Contador probably would rather have the stage win and bonus seconds but he doesn't necessarily need bonus seconds to take over the overall lead.

 

[hfer07]

Agree with the bolded, Saxo I think were doing a little too much work today. After all Katusha holds the jersey and Purito wants the bonus seconds to add to his overall lead. Saxo should let the other teams do some of the work in the next couple stages.

It would probably be smart to let the break win at least one stage too, Contador probably would rather have the stage win and bonus seconds but he doesn't necessarily need bonus seconds to take over the overall lead.

the problem here is that Katusha does not have to
yes- they have Purito in rojo, but they're in a comfortable position with Moreno as well- & the other teams are in need to lift the pace to make it harder for Joaquim-not the other way around. If Saxo & Sky had a man up in the top ten going in a breakaway where Katusha was forced to go after him-then yes-they ought to chase him down & control the entire race, but is not the case....

 

[gilbertador]

I was wondering... *forgive me for being naive*.. why putting your team mate in front and turn the screw, if at the end, Purito still have Moreno and Froome still got Henao and Uran. Both domestique seemed to pay divident to their team leader by pacing them up. Do you think STSB burned all their matches too soon maybe? Why not let Dani, Majka or Jesus follow and, let Sky or Katusha team drive the train? Seems to me Bertie got isolated once the last men peeled off. Bertie problem so far is… he can't sustain the attack. Therefore it would be nice if he got one of his gregarios to help him out? Or another thought, why not let the break away won the stage? In that case there's no bonus point to worry about? *hopefully this will force kathusha to chase since purito seems to be an expert on stealing the bonification*....

I have a feeling that Bertie wants the bonification *and the win of course* help too, to add more buffer to his gap if his attack successful maybe?

I agree I also kind of think JRod needs to win by bonuses and is unlikely to massively gap AC, if AC does win this bonuses will be irrelevant becuase he will take a lot of time by fully cracking Jrod

 

[Publicus]

Weather for tomorrow.

 

[Big Doopie]

I agree I also kind of think JRod needs to win by bonuses and is unlikely to massively gap AC, if AC does win this bonuses will be irrelevant becuase he will take a lot of time by fully cracking Jrod

agreed. but he also doesn't need to gap him.

as i posted a couple of days ago, he needs to do exactly what he did today -- easy for me to say.

he only has to follow conti. and can even let him attack and dangle -- especially if he has moreno to pace him until 1-2k left.

but why are we not talking about talansky...?

 

[sagard]

Contador needs Froome and Valverde to get up the road. Then he has to play a nasty game of chicken with Rodriguez. At some point Rodriguez will chase, and then Contador can pounce after Moreno/Rodriguez chase them down.

If Saxo wears everyone down again, it will be Purito who wins.

 

[sultanofhyd]

Contador for the win. I still believe in him.

 

[Cimber]

I was wondering... *forgive me for being naive*.. why putting your team mate in front and turn the screw, if at the end, Purito still have Moreno and Froome still got Henao and Uran. Both domestique seemed to pay divident to their team leader by pacing them up. Do you think STSB burned all their matches too soon maybe? Why not let Dani, Majka or Jesus follow and, let Sky or Katusha team drive the train? Seems to me Bertie got isolated once the last men peeled off. Bertie problem so far is… he can't sustain the attack. Therefore it would be nice if he got one of his gregarios to help him out? Or another thought, why not let the break away won the stage? In that case there's no bonus point to worry about? *hopefully this will force kathusha to chase since purito seems to be an expert on stealing the bonification*....

I have a feeling that Bertie wants the bonification *and the win of course* help too, to add more buffer to his gap if his attack successful maybe?

U a are totally right, Saxo should let the break go, but I think Bertie just badly wanted the stage win

 

[2 Square Wheels]

Sky might aswell start going for stage wins cos i cant see Froome in contention anymore, he'll be lucky to get a top 5 finish from here, they should send the columbians into todays break if possible(doubt they will tho).
Wonder how Saxo are feeling today, hope they didnt go into the red for Bertie's 2nd place
I think Cobo will win today stage, held himself back in the form of 25minutes yesterday , must be planning something surely

 

[meat puppet]

jrod was what, 20 sec faster on the last km than bert?

in other words, I agree with hrotha: a long range attack would be the way to go. you dont have to go thomas de gendt about it, but there is always an element of psychological determination involved in that game, and even if purito's stamina has improved and bert might be a bit off, the psychological effect might be the key.

if the attack doesn't stick, then tough luck.

tomorrow is perhaps the better day for such attacks, though.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Depends. He can't do 10 km on his own against the group, but if Saxo blow things up and it's more of a direct duel, I don't see why he'd necessarily lose to Purito on a 10-km effort even if he's not at his best.

I don't think he can do it. And I don't think he's willing to take such a risk either. Not yet.

 

[rghysens]

Depends. He can't do 10 km on his own against the group, but if Saxo blow things up and it's more of a direct duel, I don't see why he'd necessarily lose to Purito on a 10-km effort even if he's not at his best.

Do you really think Rodriguez will concede any time to Contador in any of the following stages? From what I have seen until now, this won't happen. OK, maybe he will lose 1" on Contador when he gifts the stage to Bola del Mundo. Rodriguez has improved both his climbing and tt-ing this year while already being 32, just like Wiggins.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Depends. He can't do 10 km on his own against the group, but if Saxo blow things up and it's more of a direct duel, I don't see why he'd necessarily lose to Purito on a 10-km effort even if he's not at his best.

they are not going to blow anything up. moreno will still be there

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Contador needs Froome and Valverde to get up the road. Then he has to play a nasty game of chicken with Rodriguez. At some point Rodriguez will chase, and then Contador can pounce after Moreno/Rodriguez chase them down.

If Saxo wears everyone down again, it will be Purito who wins.

this is indeed the right tactic. sending riders of saxo in front is totally useless ans katusha will let them get as much time as they want so contador has no use for them

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Sky might aswell start going for stage wins cos i cant see Froome in contention anymore, he'll be lucky to get a top 5 finish from here, they should send the columbians into todays break if possible(doubt they will tho).
Wonder how Saxo are feeling today, hope they didnt go into the red for Bertie's 2nd place
I think Cobo will win today stage, held himself back in the form of 25minutes yesterday , must be planning something surely

it pains me to see every day how much they abuse the colombian riders for absolutely nothing. who cares about froome's 4th place

 

[manafana]

In my view Contadors domestiques arnt as strong theirs no way his support can match the climbing of either Moreno, Uran, Henao or Quintana.

Contador isnt as strong as old thats for sure, his attacks used to be more stinging, and he sustained a higher pace too. Purito was excellent and to be fair its quiet a strong field.

Special mention must go to ten dam who is putting in mighty showing for rabobank, if he can avoid the usual bad day he could go well.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

it pains me to see every day how much they abuse the colombian riders for absolutely nothing. who cares about froome's 4th place

Where has Quintana been so far this Vuelta?

 

[No_Balls]

In my view Contadors domestiques arnt as strong theirs no way his support can match the climbing of either Moreno, Uran, Henao or Quintana.

Contador isnt as strong as old thats for sure, his attacks used to be more stinging, and he sustained a higher pace too. Purito was excellent and to be fair its quiet a strong field.

Special mention must go to ten dam who is putting in mighty showing for rabobank, if he can avoid the usual bad day he could go well.

Nah. His attacks is fine and was every bit of the "old" Alberto as could have been. His lacks of stamina is preventing him of sustain them and/or if he gets bridge put in two-three more blows like that. He is still within striking distance to a late-blooming Rodriguez in his shape of the life that prevents him from the shirt. The others have already been distanced by quite a margin.

In current shape he would definitively needed a superdomestique in the mountains. Such as Uran, Henao, Moreno or guys like that.

 

[TheSecretForum]

It's make or break for Froome today. He has to try something.

 

[spalco]

I still believe that Alberto will win, but I must say, I really like all of the GC contenders. They're scrappy, aggressive, and best of all, they don't whine. Well, Valverde did complain a bit about the crash incident, but that all seems to be in the past. It's not coming up time and again like a broken record....'fire in the belly' kind of crap.

Why can't this be the norm? Maybe the Tour de France needs a shake up of sorts. It has become so boring!!

I think it's like that in this Vuelta because all the top contenders either have significant weaknesses (Rodriguez, Valverde) or aren't on top form (Contador, Froome), so they are forced to gamble. Andy Schleck doesn't gamble, Evans and Wiggins don't gamble and neither does Contador when he's top, they just trust that what they can do will be enough.

eta: and if it isn't enough - well, a third place or even a fifth place at the Tour can still make you a lot of money.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nah. His attacks is fine and was every bit of the "old" Alberto as could have been. His lacks of stamina is preventing him of sustain them and/or if he gets bridge put in two-three more blows like that. He is still within striking distance to a late-blooming Rodriguez in his shape of the life that prevents him from the shirt. The others have already been distanced by quite a margin.

In current shape he would definitively needed a superdomestique in the mountains. Such as Uran, Henao, Moreno or guys like that.

His attacks always look very promising but he can't hold it. That's why I think he shouldn't attack from further than 2 km out. He looks completely broken everytime he crosses the line.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Not a very difficult finish to the climb is it. The last 6 km suits JRod fine. Up and down, high percentages and low percentages.

Group of 5-6 with Valverde as winner.

 

[iZnoGouD]

It's make or break for Froome today. He has to try something.

He is getting weaker each day
No podium for him