Vuelta 2017 stage 12 Motril - Antequera 160,1 km

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Re: Re:

Tank Engine said:
huge said:
Summary of the day.

If the leader crashes and you push on, you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla
If the leader crashes and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla
My version

If nothing particularly is happening in GC and a dog runs into the front wheel of the leader and you attack then you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla (OK I'm exaggerating a bit here ;) )

If the race is on and the leader falls due to nobody else's fault and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla (again I'm exaggerating and it depends on your personal goals)

OK this does leave a spacious grey area. Froome's not blaming anybody or anything else for what happened today, so he obviously thinks that this is just part of racing and the second case most definitely holds. I think most of the comments of "why aren't they waiting?" were in jest.
That's exactly how I see it. What's more a solo or independent fall like the first or indeed both of Froome's today is just part of the race, and often caused by a misjudged line or speed. If competitors feel they shouldn't attack in that situation then we might as well forget bike racing.
 
Re: Re:

wwabbit said:
Cance > TheRest said:
wwabbit said:
Cance > TheRest said:
Actually the drivers in the Katusha car did everything in its might to avoid interfering with Froome's line. It braked to give Froome room to pass, when Froome tried to overtake it, coming into the corner.

I have no clue why some people blame the car. The misinformed should watch a replay of the episode, if that is what is needed to overrule their bias.
You need to watch the replay again, the Katusha stopped for Froome to overtake, then while Froome was starting to turn the corner, it started moving forward again.
Well, I don't think the car rolling with 3-4km/h mattered for Froome's line, to be honest. But we will have to wait and see what Froome says, if he explains it by nervousness over the car or he admits to simply sliding out. From the pictures, it appears to be the latter explanation, although it is ofcourse impossible to know what went through Froome's head at the moment. I would say though, that if he gets nervous over a car rolling slowly into a corner, when he's already ahead of it, then his nerves are not very good.
If you ride in front of a car and it starts moving forward, you are likely to be startled and take evasive action even if given more time to assess the situation you would on hindsight know that you would have easily cleared the path of the car before it gets to you. Unfortunately for Froome a hairpin corner isn't a good place to take evasive action. Really, the Katusha car should have remained in a complete stop.
wwabbit, I read few of your posts and couldn't help to reply.

I don't think the car was at fault, but even if it was a distraction for Froome because it was moving, Froome has to learn to deal with it. Riders face that situation almost everyday on the caravan when they are off the back of the peloton. It would be impossible to avoid these kind of situations between cars and riders.
 
Re: Re:

Tank Engine said:
huge said:
Summary of the day.

If the leader crashes and you push on, you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla
If the leader crashes and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla
My version

If nothing particularly is happening in GC and a dog runs into the front wheel of the leader and you attack then you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla (OK I'm exaggerating a bit here ;) )

If the race is on and the leader falls due to nobody else's fault and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla (again I'm exaggerating and it depends on your personal goals)

OK this does leave a spacious grey area. Froome's not blaming anybody or anything else for what happened today, so he obviously thinks that this is just part of racing and the second case most definitely holds. I think most of the comments of "why aren't they waiting?" were in jest.
We had this discussion in another thread.
However I agree with you.

I noticed some of the comments about the waiting being ironic.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Asturiano said:
Do you think this Vuelta is being enough hard to believe in big crisis from big contenders on the next days?
It is a hard Vuelta parcours and it is ridden very fast. I think it's quite possible.
The thing is I'm trying to guess how hard Vuelta is being in order to know if we can see unexpected big fails.
 
Re: Re:

wouterkaas said:
huge said:
Summary of the day.

If the leader crashes and you push on, you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla
If the leader crashes and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla
This basically sums up how social media work nowadays, on pretty much any subject
Sad state of affairs, and I wonder if the fear of social media hatred deterred Nibali from going all out and exploit the situation. He took so much flak in the past for such tactics. Regardless, Dawg dodges a big bullet, is still very comfy in the driver's seat.
 
Aug 26, 2014
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Re: Re:

Tonton said:
wouterkaas said:
huge said:
Summary of the day.

If the leader crashes and you push on, you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla
If the leader crashes and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla
This basically sums up how social media work nowadays, on pretty much any subject
Sad state of affairs, and I wonder if the fear of social media hatred deterred Nibali from going all out and exploit the situation. He took so much flak in the past for such tactics. Regardless, Dawg dodges a big bullet, is still very comfy in the driver's seat.
He was certainly rather tetchy on the interviews, as if he was on the defensive, anticipating a bit of a shitstorm coming his way.
 
Yes he was.

With regards to the fan incident, it goes to show that someone with a mental health issue or a substance abuse issue (i.e. a drunk) can commit an act that we should keep in its context. It's sad, unfortunate, and by no means defines Spanish supporters, or the French ones with regards to Froome's urine or beer showering. Just sad.
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
wouterkaas said:
huge said:
Summary of the day.

If the leader crashes and you push on, you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla
If the leader crashes and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla
This basically sums up how social media work nowadays, on pretty much any subject
Sad state of affairs, and I wonder if the fear of social media hatred deterred Nibali from going all out and exploit the situation. He took so much flak in the past for such tactics. Regardless, Dawg dodges a big bullet, is still very comfy in the driver's seat.
It's never stopped Nibali in the past. Froome was lucky that the chase wasn't much longer. Typical day of stage racing. Yesterday it was BMC and Orica having problems and then Sky's turn. There are no rules regarding protocol after crashes so riders continue to use their own judgement and they will be criticized either way on social media so ..........
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
According to a witness, the spectator who pushed Belkov had Down syndrome.
The person who ran after him was his father.
It all makes a bit more sense now and is also a bit sad. I guess the father never expected this would happen.
You also had a road runner causing the neutral spares moto to crash. That said I think the police are doing a good job from what I have seen.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
LaFlorecita said:
According to a witness, the spectator who pushed Belkov had Down syndrome.
The person who ran after him was his father.
It all makes a bit more sense now and is also a bit sad. I guess the father never expected this would happen.
You also had a road runner causing the neutral spares moto to crash. That said I think the police are doing a good job from what I have seen.
Well, it was a police pushing the road runner in front of the moto...
 
Mar 24, 2015
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Re: Re:

Electress said:
Tonton said:
wouterkaas said:
huge said:
Summary of the day.

If the leader crashes and you push on, you are a man with no morality, a cheater, bla bla bla
If the leader crashes and you don't push on, you are a pussy, a disappointment, bla bla bla
This basically sums up how social media work nowadays, on pretty much any subject
Sad state of affairs, and I wonder if the fear of social media hatred deterred Nibali from going all out and exploit the situation. He took so much flak in the past for such tactics. Regardless, Dawg dodges a big bullet, is still very comfy in the driver's seat.
He was certainly rather tetchy on the interviews, as if he was on the defensive, anticipating a bit of a shitstorm coming his way.
He certainly was.

I saw his interview in Italian and when a guy said "After Froome crashed it looked like you guys waited for a couple of minutes"... not even letting him finish, probably thinking he wanted to insinuate something, Nibali almost burst out and rising his voice said; "WITH LESS THAN 10k TO GO YOU WAIT??!! 10k TO THE FINISH?? If we stop and wait Alberto would gain some more time and he is dangerous. It was in everybody's interest to try and reel him in... Guys, this is bike racing... there's not much more to be explained"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPhAsMmKAzs
 
Sep 20, 2011
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Re:

LaFlorecita said:
According to a witness, the spectator who pushed Belkov had Down syndrome.
The person who ran after him was his father.
It all makes a bit more sense now and is also a bit sad. I guess the father never expected this would happen.
Belkov confirmed the man has a mental disability and that, for him, is more than enough reason not to press any charges.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
movingtarget said:
LaFlorecita said:
According to a witness, the spectator who pushed Belkov had Down syndrome.
The person who ran after him was his father.
It all makes a bit more sense now and is also a bit sad. I guess the father never expected this would happen.
You also had a road runner causing the neutral spares moto to crash. That said I think the police are doing a good job from what I have seen.
Well, it was a police pushing the road runner in front of the moto...
Yeah that was stupid but they guy should not have been there in the first place. The policeman got carried away !
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Forever The Best said:
Very nicely designed stage and chapeau to Contador for attacking yet again. We will miss him...

Gigs_98 said:
hrotha said:
Even if Froome abandoned right now, that wouldn't mean Nibali was smart. Instead of taking time NOW, which he could easily have done, we're hoping an unforeseen and unpredictable consequence of Froome's crashes will allow him to maybe perhaps gain time at an unspecified later stage, if all goes well? Meh.

Nibali is being extremely disappointing this year, and not because he has worse legs than in previous seasons.
Nibali was disappointing today but I generally disagree. He was sneaking his way to a stage win, he was attacking on stage 10, he was the most aggressive rider yesterday and even on stage 6 to Sagunt he was attacking on the final descent trying to bridge to the Contador group instead of just trying to control the race. I'm really not disappointed, but he just generally has the problem this year that he doesn't have a good team. Long range attacks are very difficult if you can neither effectively decimate the peloton to complicate the chase nor have teammates in front who can help you in valleys.
I agree with Gigs about Vuelta though I have to say that Nibali was disappointing in the Giro. (He should have been a lot more aggressive there)

Also, since I didn't watch the stage, I have to ask a thing. Nibali was only working on the front on the last 1-2 km or so reading the posts on here, right?
Because on another forum I read that he was leading the group on the descent and that Bahrain-Merida was pulling long before the final 2 km.
He had Delfino pulling for awhile which is not quite the man to put time into Froome +2 ready to die doms and of course he was pulling himself together with some Astana guys but most of the group seemed uninterested in doing proper group work. It's obvious he wanted to loose as little time to Contador as possible and gain as much time as possible on Froome but given the circumstances it wasn't possible to do more. Anyway 20 seconds out of nowhere is good.
Thanks. It looks like he could have worked himself to open the gap but didn't which is disapponting.
 

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