Vuelta 2017, Stage 8 : Hellín / Xorret de Catí. 199,5km

[Krokro]

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

 

[eric_vv]

Re:

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

If that was the case, they wouldn't have himstarting the Vuelta.
First time I've seen such a reaction, makes me think more is going on behind the screens.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

If he really said that that's a fair reason to kick hm out.

 

[wouterkaas]

Re:

Sunweb has said this incident was the latest of several incidents they had with Barguil, so its not coming out of nowhere. Tough decision but a brave one, to show they take the idea of "team above the individual" seriously.

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

You're confusing their intentions with your own opinion there.

 

["Jeff"]

Sunweb is just laughable. I am really starting to dislike that bunch and I am Dutch. Some inexpierenced managers who suddenly act like Alfredo Martini after some good results.

Barguil, of course, he is your typical annoying Frenchman but he is right this time. Cycling has become science already and its good there is someone who refuses to listen to team orders.

First that disaster with Sinkeldam and his ridiculous jersey and now this.

Get out of here !

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Well, they must have their reasons that we don't know off. Otherwise there's no rational sense behind this action considering that Barguil and Kelderman were approximately equal in the GC and considering that neither of the two are particularly more likely than the other to get a high GC position. Then again, the Sunweb management have taken odd decisions previously this year.

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

Sunweb has said this incident was the latest of several incidents they had with Barguil, so its not coming out of nowhere. Tough decision but a brave one, to show they take the idea of "team above the individual" seriously.

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

You're confusing their intentions with your own opinion there.

What sort of incidents?
The guy just offered them a sh*tload of free advertisement, even more than BigTom to the public eyes considering this was the TDF.. just saying it might be really severe. At the end of the day, they lost a dom for supertop10 Wilko.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Sunweb has said this incident was the latest of several incidents they had with Barguil, so its not coming out of nowhere. Tough decision but a brave one, to show they take the idea of "team above the individual" seriously.

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

You're confusing their intentions with your own opinion there.

What sort of incidents?
The guy just offered them a sh*tload of free advertisement, even more than BigTom to the public eyes considering this was the TDF.. just saying it might be really severe. At the end of the day, they lost a dom for supertop10 Wilko.

They didn't lose a domestique. They lost a guy who refused to do his work

Barguil could've just waited for Kelderman to blow it uphill or crash and then he could've gone for his own chances. Instead he admits he's got different goals than the team and gets kicked out. Not the brightest thing to do.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Ah, Xorret de Cati. Battleground of the sprinters.

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

Sunweb has said this incident was the latest of several incidents they had with Barguil, so its not coming out of nowhere. Tough decision but a brave one, to show they take the idea of "team above the individual" seriously.

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

You're confusing their intentions with your own opinion there.

What sort of incidents?
The guy just offered them a sh*tload of free advertisement, even more than BigTom to the public eyes considering this was the TDF.. just saying it might be really severe. At the end of the day, they lost a dom for supertop10 Wilko.

They didn't lose a domestique. They lost a guy who refused to do his work

Barguil could've just waited for Kelderman to blow it uphill or crash and then he could've gone for his own chances. Instead he admits he's got different goals than the team and gets kicked out. Not the brightest thing to do.

I haven't read his interview about this tbf. He made a mistake, obviously there. But they could have sort this with a fine or whatever. It just gives bad image (for both). Anyway its not even a big deal, both would not have reached a reasonnable spot on the GC. Back to Xorret de Cati!

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

Then why even put him on the Vuelta team in the first place?

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":1ef5mhsq]Sunweb is just laughable. I am really starting to dislike that bunch and I am Dutch. Some inexpierenced managers who suddenly act like Alfredo Martini after some good results.

Barguil, of course, he is your typical annoying Frenchman but he is right this time. Cycling has become science already and its good there is someone who refuses to listen to team orders.

First that disaster with Sinkeldam and his ridiculous jersey and now this.

Get out of here ![/quote]
It's pretty common for teams not to pick riders who are leaving at the end of the season, so it shouldn't be too surprising to see this happen when one refuses to ride for the team.

 

[Laplaz]

Chaves to be in roja after the stage.

 

[Valv.Piti]

This had never happened if Barguil wasn't leaving, simply pathetic to throw him him for not working for the great WILCO KELDERMAN.

 

[liamito]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":3clvhkhs]Sunweb is just laughable. I am really starting to dislike that bunch and I am Dutch. Some inexpierenced managers who suddenly act like Alfredo Martini after some good results.

Barguil, of course, he is your typical annoying Frenchman but he is right this time. Cycling has become science already and its good there is someone who refuses to listen to team orders.

First that disaster with Sinkeldam and his ridiculous jersey and now this.

Get out of here ![/quote]

Good statement.

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

Then why even put him on the Vuelta team in the first place?

I don't have any certitudes but they might still wanted him here given his great perf in July. Doesnt mean they appreciate that he is leaving. But we probably won't know the reason behind it.

 

[Lequack]

44 Big Photos from Stage 7 — sirotti/aso/smith:
http://www.steephill.tv/2017/vuelta-a-espana/photos/stage-07/

 

[Lequack]

Photos from Xorret de Catí finish 2009, Valvarde takes the leader's jersey — sirotti:
http://www.steephill.tv/2009/vuelta-a-espana/photos/stage-09/

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re:

If he really said that that's a fair reason to kick hm out.

If he said what?

 

[classicomano]

Barguil's actions aren't smart but I can understand him not wanting to work for Kelderman's pointless Bora GC. The people running the Sunweb team are turning it into an eerie fascist sect.

 

[DingoGuesdon]

Re: Re:

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

Then why even put him on the Vuelta team in the first place?

I don't have any certitudes but they might still wanted him here given his great perf in July. Doesnt mean they appreciate that he is leaving. But we probably won't know the reason behind it.

since he was under contract for next season, they probably got some compensation. If they did not want to allow him to leave they could have kept him. I find this behaviour very strange since there clearly was a strong sense of camaraderie in le Tour with Barguil working for Matthews and vice-versa. There is an old interview of Barguil where he does not mince his words with Kelderman (when Wilco was at Lotto-Jumbo) saying that he is a passive racer and never attacks.
Imagine if Gadret, Konig, Majka or Atapuma had been excluded every time they did not help their leaders.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Is it not a valid team tactic to leave your second best man with the leaders when a problem befalls the designated leader? This is what we seem time and again: the third and fourth men are the ones who help out (if they are still there) in most such situations.

I think this is frustration on the part of the team, as WK got within a couple of seconds of saving those 17 seconds (and indeed WB dropped slightly off the back of the group to try to get the gap to be <1 second, but didn't drop quite far enough: that would have been acclaimed as great tactical awareness had it succeeded). If WK had been 30 s or more behind, they would not be removing WB, they would be changing tactics to support him.

Long term decision made from short term annoyance = bad management.

 

[klintE]

Someone is employer, someone is employee.
If he clearly ignored team orders his case is very simple. Insubordination.
And I'm not saying he should be expelled. I'm saying employer has right to do this.
Or maybe Barguil isn't payed and riding on hes own bike?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

it's the other way around. Sunweb works with a clear teamgoal related way of thinking, every since they started. It worked that way with Kittel, with Degenkolb and now with Matthews, Barguil (in the TDF) and Dumoulin (giro) and now Kelderman (Vuelta).

If you don't conform to the team way of thinking, then you undermine the team. Barguil made it clear he doesn't agree with the team goal for this race, so he is out.

And talking about sour. It's Barguil who is being an ungrateful little ***** (fill in), as he was supported from the beginning by Sunweb and given plenty of races and chances to lead and grow. So now the one time he has to support somebody else, he decides not to. Talk about being an ungrateful little ****. Then you do not deserve to be there.

 

[Alexandre B.]

To put this in perspective, Alberto Contador would have been excluded from the Tour 2009 if he was with Sunweb management.