Vuelta 2017, Stage 8 : Hellín / Xorret de Catí. 199,5km

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

To put this in perspective, Alberto Contador would have been excluded from the Tour 2009 if he was with Sunweb management.

The two aren't even comparable. Barguil got what he deserved.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

To put this in perspective, Alberto Contador would have been excluded from the Tour 2009 if he was with Sunweb management.

The two aren't even comparable. Barguil got what he deserved.

Disobeying team orders is disobeying team orders.

 

[ppanther92]

Re:

Is it not a valid team tactic to leave your second best man with the leaders when a problem befalls the designated leader? This is what we seem time and again: the third and fourth men are the ones who help out (if they are still there) in most such situations.

I think this is frustration on the part of the team, as WK got within a couple of seconds of saving those 17 seconds (and indeed WB dropped slightly off the back of the group to try to get the gap to be <1 second, but didn't drop quite far enough: that would have been acclaimed as great tactical awareness had it succeeded). If WK had been 30 s or more behind, they would not be removing WB, they would be changing tactics to support him.

Long term decision made from short term annoyance = bad management.

Completely agree. What kind of impulsive idiot came to this decision? Never liked the team as Giant or Giant-Shimano and for surr thats not changing with nonsense like this.

And to portray Barguil as typical arrogant frenchman (like a poster did on page two) is also nonsense. At the TdF he was working for Matthews and Matthews for him. The both were happy, but to be honest whats eveb the point in working for Keldermann (who will not get a Top10 in Gc) as (second?) best man on the team.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Re:

Someone is employer, someone is employee.
If he clearly ignored team orders his case is very simple. Insubordination.
And I'm not saying he should be expelled. I'm saying employer has right to do this.
Or maybe Barguil isn't payed and riding on hes own bike?

I don't think anyone is questioning the legal right of Sunweb to do this, but the wisdom of it.

 

[Brullnux]

I don't get it, why does Kelderman need help following wheels?

But seriously, surely there would have been a discussion about team goals prior to the race itself. At that point, it would have been obvious that Barguil doesn't agree with the aims of the team, and if he doesn't agree he shouldn't have been picked in the first place. Sunweb's tactics are a mess here, but if they're so intent on getting a top 10 for Kelderman then don't bring Barguil; expelling him is just their solution to a problem that they created.

 

[Lequack]

Maybe this is why he went to another team a year early? Surely these tensions didn't just materialize at the Vuelta, but way before.

 

[Asturiano]

It was posted before but I think this is the right thread.

You can watch here Xorret de Cati (with Pedro Delgado and Jorge Ferrio), this is a good video to watch the climb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf9BzS8F8P8&feature=youtu.be&a

 

[klintE]

This had never happened if Barguil wasn't leaving

True. Barguil would have never behave like that if he wasn't going to leave the band.

I don't think anyone is questioning the legal right of Sunweb to do this, but the wisdom of it.

But they miss the connection. In other words they miss point who is not smart here

 

[DingoGuesdon]

Re: Re:

That's pretty though from Sunweb. Kekdermans gonna fail anyway, what are they expecting?
Sounds more like they don't appreciate that Warren is leaving. A bit sour taste behind that imo.

it's the other way around. Sunweb works with a clear teamgoal related way of thinking, every since they started. It worked that way with Kittel, with Degenkolb and now with Matthews, Barguil (in the TDF) and Dumoulin (giro) and now Kelderman (Vuelta).

If you don't conform to the team way of thinking, then you undermine the team. Barguil made it clear he doesn't agree with the team goal for this race, so he is out.

And talking about sour. It's Barguil who is being an ungrateful little ***** (fill in), as he was supported from the beginning by Sunweb and given plenty of races and chances to lead and grow. So now the one time he has to support somebody else, he decides not to. Talk about being an ungrateful little ****. Then you do not deserve to be there.

Barguil worked for Kittel and Matthews in the past. You might be overreacting.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Oliveira and Polanc might doom this group since Sky and Froome are obsessed with that jersey. The duo of Majka and Buchmann for the stage win, if they go through.

 

[mikii4567]

I can imagine that Buchmann and Pfingsten will work for Majka - he was team leader after all at before the Vuelta, and he's shown at the Tour how good a stage hunter he is.

 

[Cristobal Froome]

Re:

I can imagine that Buchmann and Pfingsten will work for Majka - he was team leader after all at before the Vuelta, and he's shown at the Tour how good a stage hunter he is.

Exactly. I'd be surprised if anyone would bother to work very hard in the break, Majka is too good.

 

[Jagartrott]

But they miss the connection. In other words they miss point who is not smart here

If Sunweb would've been smart this wouldn't have happened in the first place. They should've either given him a free role, or not taken him to the Vuelta. You can't expect an attacking rider like Barguil - who just won 2 stages, a top-10 and a jersey in the Tour - to be on babysitting duties.

 

[Brullnux]

But they miss the connection. In other words they miss point who is not smart here

If Sunweb would've been smart this wouldn't have happened in the first place. They should've either given him a free role, or not taken him to the Vuelta. You can't expect an attacking rider like Barguil - who just won 2 stages, a top-10 and a jersey in the Tour - to be on babysitting duties.

Exactly.

 

[Red Rick]

JESUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS!!!

 

[johnymax]

Re: Re:

I can imagine that Buchmann and Pfingsten will work for Majka - he was team leader after all at before the Vuelta, and he's shown at the Tour how good a stage hunter he is.

Exactly. I'd be surprised if anyone would bother to work very hard in the break, Majka is too good.

Polanc FTW

Nah, even I don't think he can beat Majka right now if it goes down to the break. His form isn't as good as it was in the Giro.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

But they miss the connection. In other words they miss point who is not smart here

So Kelderman's chances of meeting whatever modest GC ambitions Sunweb have for him are now enhanced?

He has better chances than he would have done if they had simply given Barguil a Portal-style rollocking?

 

[Red Rick]

Oliveira being in the break should really be a pain for the break and for Sky.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Interesting break. Orica and Trek could be interested in helping Sky, but they must hold the break to begin with if they dont want to lose the jersey today. Should be doable with Puccio and Stannard on this easy run in.

 

[portugal11]

C'mon nelson!

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

Oliveira being in the break should really be a pain for the break and for Sky.

What's all this break BS?

Isn't this the Sunweb thread?

 

[mikii4567]

Thing is Majka isn't a real fan of muritos, preferring longer but less steeper climbs (a perfect stage for him would be 4x 15km at 6% plus similar MTF). I wonder how he'll do if the break make it

edit:

What's all this break BS?
Isn't this the Sunweb thread?

It can be as well

 

[Climbing]

Any working stream yet?

 

[spalco]

Re:

Any working stream yet?

No, live feed starts in a hour.

 

[staubsauger]

What a weird century we're living in. All this political correctness, fake friendliness and pseudo professionalism.

Pantani openly ignored team orders when he attacked at the Passo Giovo. He and Chiappucchi were openly plotting each other at the 1995 Tour. They even went on to eventually split the whole Carrera team into two camps and stole away the Mercatone Uno sponsorship from each other. That's why the United Colors of Benetton pro cycling team never came to fruits if I'm informed correctly. Yet, Chiappucchi never would have asked to fire Pantani, or the other way around. They just yelled at each other and got finished with each other. At the end the road decided in favor of little Marco. Even though Claudio finished higher on the gc at the 95 Tour.

Don't know what Sunweb was expecting. They arranged a really great and fair gentlemens agreement. But once you get back to RACING, everyone goes for his personal objectives again and the road decides who's right or wrong. Pathetic IMHO. They shouldn't have taken him to the Vuelta in that case. Barguil is a winner. It's absolutely right that he does the wrong thing. Sounds weird, but that's it.