Vuelta 2017 stage 9: Orihuela - Cumbres del Sol, 174 km

[arvc40]

Re:

any really big contender with massive palmares like Contador, Nibali or Froome rides to win. Still turning the podium spot down just because you can't win is idiocy.

Its all bollox anyway, just part of the image Contador likes to portray. He would have settled for a runner up spot to Froome in Tour and I doubt he would put the position at risk unless he could smell blood.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

any really big contender with massive palmares like Contador, Nibali or Froome rides to win. Still turning the podium spot down just because you can't win is idiocy.

Its all bollox anyway, just part of the image Contador likes to portray. He would have settled for a runner up spot to Froome in Tour and I doubt he would put the position at risk unless he could smell blood.

His long range attacks put that podium position at risk every time, it's why the rest of the gc riders never try it. I'm sure if a podium spot was the consolation prize result of one of his epic sojourns, he of course wouldn't turn it down but it is not the ultimate goal that is being pursued when he goes on his attacks.

Edit: ...and of course to entertain.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

any really big contender with massive palmares like Contador, Nibali or Froome rides to win. Still turning the podium spot down just because you can't win is idiocy.

Its all bollox anyway, just part of the image Contador likes to portray. He would have settled for a runner up spot to Froome in Tour and I doubt he would put the position at risk unless he could smell blood.

it's more the image he had the evidense to draw in 2011, because as of today this attitude looks way too romantic.

 

[LaFlorecita]

For his last race, Bertie would like nothing more than being on the final podium.

I don't see why he would. 2nd place is not a win and he is guaranteed to be on the podium in Madrid as long as he finishes the race. Of course he'll try to finish as high as possible, but I don't think he's desperate to be 2nd or 3rd. If he had to choose between 2nd and 10th with a stage win, he'd choose the latter without a doubt.

Alberto has never podiumed a GT in his entire career, he rides to win (or lose trying). This his final race he might change that relentless First Only attitude. I for one would love to see him win a stage (Froome won't let him) and podium. I hope he will consider a podium good enough this one time.

Personally I want to see him finish with the same attitude he's had throughout his career: "the second place is not good"

 

[Carols]

For his last race, Bertie would like nothing more than being on the final podium.

I don't see why he would. 2nd place is not a win and he is guaranteed to be on the podium in Madrid as long as he finishes the race. Of course he'll try to finish as high as possible, but I don't think he's desperate to be 2nd or 3rd. If he had to choose between 2nd and 10th with a stage win, he'd choose the latter without a doubt.

Alberto has never podiumed a GT in his entire career, he rides to win (or lose trying). This his final race he might change that relentless First Only attitude. I for one would love to see him win a stage (Froome won't let him) and podium. I hope he will consider a podium good enough this one time.

Personally I want to see him finish with the same attitude he's had throughout his career: "the second place is not good"

Alberto will do as he pleases and his legs allow no matter what you or I want, or what anyone else wants for that matter . To go down in Glorious Flames was preferred by Pantani as well.
Great Champions ride to win. But if he rides to win and finishes 2nd I'll be happy .

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

any really big contender with massive palmares like Contador, Nibali or Froome rides to win. Still turning the podium spot down just because you can't win is idiocy.

Its all bollox anyway, just part of the image Contador likes to portray. He would have settled for a runner up spot to Froome in Tour and I doubt he would put the position at risk unless he could smell blood.

it's more the image he had the evidense to draw in 2011, because as of today this attitude looks way too romantic.

What better way to win when you're at a disadvantage in every area but to throw caution to the wind and put your opposition in an uncomfortable position? Going against the current conventions and using the element of surprise to one's advantage. It's a sound tactic and strategy if one is willing to deal with the consequences of its potential failure.

 

[Forever The Best]

While on twitter, I just realized Froome was way back in the first time up the Cumbre del Sol. Why did nobody try anything?
From Viskovitz (Visko) on twitter:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Visko_/status/902226241482354688

They should have attacked to fracture the group and Froome could have been in big trouble.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Because there's lots of flat they could have organized to chase back. It's a suicide mission to attack there

 

[Libertine Seguros]

1) The parcours had a much larger circuit around there than necessary. They could just as easily have had a 15km circuit and had three climbs of the final ascent, or a shorter stage. If Froome is badly placed at that point, it's much easier to justify trying to distance him rather than take your chances against the Sky domestiques on the flat before being cooked on the climb.
2) Froome has made something of a career of appearing to struggle early in a stage or climb only to come back stronger than anybody. Even back in 2011 he was dropped on San Lorenzo, but was just about the strongest on La Farrapona, only he had to tow Wiggins when Cobo rode across to de la Fuente who'd been in the break. People have got over excited about the Alien's weakness when he doesn't answer some early attack a few times now, but unless the situation is either favourable or desperate then others are unlikely to go for such a long distance gambit just because he'd not placed himself near the front on a climb 40km from the line.
3) Large parts of the GC mix in this race include a number of people whose racing modus operandi is based around losing time as slowly as possible, not gaining time, and without cohesion the group will never succeed; the presence of negative riders who are unlikely to take a pull will only serve to damage the group's chances of any meaningful gains. This is precisely what I meant a couple of weeks ago by riders whose presence actively harms races (I singled out Meintjes for that critique, but he isn't the only one, just one of the worst current offenders).

 

[Forever The Best]

I was talking about making a team attack there and forming a group of 15-25 riders in which all the important names and some of their doms are there so that Froome and Sky may have huge trouble bringing it back before the climb.

About point 2, Froome was obviously the strongest but he was inattentive there, so the others could have tried something.
And the stage design was bad as well.
About point 3, agreed. Riders like Meintjes etc. would have been working in Froome Gr. if they were caught out at the back.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Even more so, those riders would also likely not be working in the front group if they made it either, especially if outnumbered. Adam Yates (who is another such rider) might be pushed to take a turn since Orica would likely have numbers, and likely wouldn't contribute to a chase with Chaves ahead, but a few of them would not want to burn themselves out in that group and would subsequently hamper its gains.