Vuelta 2018 stage 14:Cistierna - Les Praeres de Nava 171km

[slosada]

Re: Re:

López is the one to blame. Period. Had he helped a bit, he would have won the stage a now would be closer to the red jersey. Instead, he settled for 2nd and 6 secs further. He also knows he might be the weakest in the ITT.
Right now the top4 in GC are probably the ones fighting for title and podium.

Help at 16% gradient? How? Drafting at 12kph is practically negligible (you can probably save something like 1W). That's why they were riding side by side for quite a long time. It's everyone for themselves on this type of climb.

just guess in which section they were brought back.

http://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/puertos/view/13374

 

[Big Doopie]

Re: Re:

...sometimes it seems like many forum users live in the world of fantasy where attacking is the matter of willingness, not physical ability.

o. m. g.

this is so true.

the other thing is modern cycling is very even. they all have power meters and know not to go into the red. imagine how much uran would have lost had he not gone up like he did at his rhythm. he would likely have exploded as opposed to dropping and then yo-yoing back and forth.

there are only seconds between the riders in the climbs and on GC and that lends itself to the racing we have.

the other option is to put back an adequate number of ITT kms and then you would have the real all-rounders staving off the attacks of the climbers.

so tired of pocket-sized climbers being thought of as the best all-rounders.

they are not.

they are pocket-sized climbers that in any other era would have been competing for a podium once in a while. otherwise they would be filling up places 5-10, going for stage wins and the mountain classification.

 

[Rollthedice]

Problem with Quintana is not that he has his limits, can't go faster, everybody has it but rather that he frequently misinterprets the race and his own body reactions. What is the point of these attacks if he can't sustain a proper rhythm in order to distance his main rivals, worse ending up conceding precious seconds. Maybe ride with Yates, follow, keep an eye on your rivals, attack where you know you can take it to the line before those 800 meters where Yates is devastating.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re:

Does this Vuelta have anything other than steep short walls? This is boring, it's always the same cyclists over and over again.

Seems like only the Giro can get its course design right.

LOL!

did you complain during the 2012 Vuelta when there were like 14 MTFs and it was practically always the same four riders in front: contador, rodriguez, valverde and froome?

that was likely the most boring stage race i have ever watched.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re: Re:

Can’t stand Simon Yates

I want to love Quintana, really, but Yates rides the way I want Quintana to ride. He waits for the opening and goes for it.

I just don't understand Quintana.

Yates is a 800m specialist, not my style of rider

Thank you. I think the same. I hate a finish like today. You know the 1km specialists will come back and wait until the end anyway so all attacks by Kruijswijk, Quintana are pointless

hmm. not sure kruijswijk's was an attack. i think he figured with his body size best to TT up the climb steadily. and it was likely the best option.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Problem with Quintana is not that he has his limits, can't go faster, everybody has it but rather that he frequently misinterprets the race and his own body reactions. What is the point of these attacks if he can't sustain a proper rhythm in order to distance his main rivals, worse ending up conceding precious seconds. Maybe ride with Yates, follow, keep an eye on your rivals, attack where you know you can take it to the line before those 800 meters where Yates is devastating.

+1. I agree with this statement. I give him a good grade for trying. But had he done the same as Yates we would probably had seen the similar result as yesterday. Maybe. As for Lopez he is riding his race by being a wheelsucker. I agree that he made a mistake by not helping Quintana because he would have gained more that letting Yates win and lose a few seconds. I also think that Quintana was on the limit after that attack.

One last comment. This is the type of climb where you almost have to wait until the last kilometer. Otherwise it will kill you. Quintana went too early.

 

[Escarabajo]

LOL at all the comments.

Quintana lost 8 seconds and he is finished, has no tactical sense, will never win again, can't sprint or TT (weird comment again after this stage), it is the 4-6 best climber, etc. Yesterday we had different opinions. Tomorrow it might swing back the other direction.

In this forum we over react heavily by the results that just happened. How can opinions can change by the day so much?

Every rider has haters. They just hide after said rider just had a good result and show making their silly comments immediately when they can.

Finally, chapeau Pinot. He is fighting his way back.

 

[Koronin]

Quintana has not learned to read a race and does not seem to have any understanding of tactics. That is nothing new and at this point I do not think he will learn. This could end up costing him this Vuelta. Right now the big question is: Has Yates learned from his mistakes at the Giro or not? Time will tell on that. Valverde made a comment at the end of today's stage that he thought the finishing part of this climb was much harder than it actually was and for that reason completely and totally mistimed his sprint to the point that he didn't even care if he finished 2nd or 3rd on the stage. He said he still had a good bit left after the stage was over because he 100% sure the finish was steeper and harder. Thus proving that he is still prone to making tactical mistakes.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yates had plenty of reason to wait today though - he was the one in the virtual red jersey, he had every reason not to work, it was up to the others to drop him. López, by contrast, went with Quintana, who is ahead of him in the GC, and refused to collaborate even though it was in mutual gain as Quintana was not in the lead either. Quintana tried repeatedly to get away, but wasn't as strong as he seemed yesterday. Yates' win here was due to his racing smart - he used the help available when it was in their interest to chase Quintana and López, and when Nairito was placed a little way down the group in a narrow section, seeing as Quintana had been the most aggressive rider and, along with himself, the strongest on La Camperona, he took advantage of the opportunity afforded him, as you could see Quintana was the first to respond but by the time he'd been able to, Yates had enough of a gap that Quintana couldn't close it, and then once it was a battle between the two of them, even if Quintana had had the legs, he would also have to shake off the efforts of the previous attacks.

I would argue that while it wasn't the most visually arresting racing, Yates raced smart. Let's remember that he's in the red jersey because he was one of the few who bothered making any efforts on La Alfaguara. Adam is the really negative racer. López, on the other hand, does deserve criticism for negative racing today because the ease with which he followed Quintana and his sprint away from the Movistar duo showed that he might well have had the legs and would almost certainly have both gained time and won the stage had he worked with Nairito.

 

[Escarabajo]

Libertine, Very good assessment as usual.

 

[hazaran]

It's a frickin 12% climb, who cares who is "working" or not. One year we don't have Froome and everyone (well not Yates) has all but forgotten that.

Which is why Quintana looking around to Lopez is so stupid. You just went full gas pedal to the metal and the guy behind you *had to do the exact same effort* since it's so steep. Now that you got to the flatter part you want him to work when he is just as knackered as you are? :lol:

On these climbs, it's just steady riding with budget for exactly one hard effort. If you don't make that count, no matter who followed, you might as well put a stick in your spokes on the bottom.

 

[HelloDolly]

Will just leave this here

https://twitter.com/FranReyesF/status/1038512056297840640

 

[Red Rick]

What I really want to see is a distribution of what power output riders have on those little flat sections, what speed they ride and how much energy it saves there to sit in the wheel.

 

[DanielSong39]

Quintana's attack was well timed, he just didn't have the legs.

If he felt like a million dollars he would've straight dropped Lopez and gained 30 seconds on Yates and Lopez at the line. It's not like he hasn't done this before.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Will just leave this here

https://twitter.com/FranReyesF/status/1038512056297840640

LOL. Easier said than done.

BTW, who is this guy?

 

[Lequack]

I wonder how Froome or Geraint would have fared on today's stage.

Also some watts estimates for today's climb:
https://twitter.com/Xav3r1us/status/1038537550158352385

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

LOL at all the comments.

Quintana lost 8 seconds and he is finished, has no tactical sense, will never win again, can't sprint or TT (weird comment again after this stage), it is the 4-6 best climber, etc. Yesterday we had different opinions. Tomorrow it might swing back the other direction.

In this forum we over react heavily by the results that just happened. How can opinions can change by the day so much?

Every rider has haters. They just hide after said rider just had a good result and show making their silly comments immediately when they can.

Finally, chapeau Pinot. He is fighting his way back.

The word "hater" has become the cliche of choice whenever someone disagrees with somebody's comment. I don't hate Quintana, never did, I just think he is frustrating to watch. That said, he can still win this race. Lopez probably rode a worse stage than Quintana as he seemed to have better legs.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

There is no sky train in this race but this Vuelta is somehow boring. At least compared to recent years. Gc action limited to last meters or couple of kilometres like in Tour. It is maybe just my short memory but I think there used to be more Gc action at Vuelta

Stage profiles are very uninviting for attacking before the final climb.
Besides that this vuelta is very similar to the giro that was won by Hesjedal. Open race, but it wasnt pretty.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

I wonder how Froome or Geraint would have fared on today's stage.

Also some watts estimates for today's climb:
https://twitter.com/Xav3r1us/status/1038537550158352385

These weights are off.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I wonder how Froome or Geraint would have fared on today's stage.

Also some watts estimates for today's climb:
https://twitter.com/Xav3r1us/status/1038537550158352385

These weights are off.

They always are

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re:

It's a frickin 12% climb, who cares who is "working" or not. One year we don't have Froome and everyone (well not Yates) has all but forgotten that.

Which is why Quintana looking around to Lopez is so stupid. You just went full gas pedal to the metal and the guy behind you *had to do the exact same effort* since it's so steep. Now that you got to the flatter part you want him to work when he is just as knackered as you are? :lol:

On these climbs, it's just steady riding with budget for exactly one hard effort. If you don't make that count, no matter who followed, you might as well put a stick in your spokes on the bottom.

This is exactly the point. At >10% you have to just go at ur pace there is very little benefit in working or not working. Its only in the flatter parts that there is benefit which actually makes both of them pretty idiotic with Quintana begin more so. Could have used Carapaz for setting the pace if there was no desire to really attack or push.