Vuelta 2024 discussion

[CyclistAbi]

So as I suspected.

First of all i misread as i read it as Giro editions in where Rogla and Pogi participated and won. I thought that some perceived both approaches as being boring. So yes indeed we can focus only on the edition on where Rogla participated. So. You reasoned it must have only come down to Rogla, my claim. I reasoned it came down to a performance of the athlete. So if you don't agree then refute that, the performances mentioned and not the names or nationalities.

So my claim is Giro 2023 was building up to be one of the greatest last stage performances ever. Refute that if you can. If you can then for sure it was rather boring, just building up and no real action in between GT favourites. If you can't refute it, then simply respect it as such.

 

[tobydawq]

First of all i misread as i read it as Giro editions in where Rogla and Pogi participated and won. I thought that some perceived both approaches as boring. So yes indeed we can focus only on the edition on where Rogla participated. So. You reasoned it must have only come down to Rogla. I reasoned it came down to a performance of the athlete. So if you don't agree then refute that, the performances mentioned and not the names or nationalities.

So my claim is Giro 2023 was building up to be one of the greatest last stage performances ever. Refute that if you can. If you can then for sure it was rather boring, just building up and no real action in between GT favourites. If you can't refute it, then simply respect it.

Ok, fair enough.

Monte Lussari was great, the buildup pure garbage. Unfortunately, the buildup lasted much longer than the crescendo.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Ok, fair enough.

Monte Lussari was great, the buildup pure garbage. Unfortunately, the buildup lasted much longer than the crescendo.

For me such things are rather normal, this is what i am hoping to get out of a GT. Personally i don't want some grand action every day, as when i get that i somehow feel i am taken for a fool. If this will continue, action every day at a GT race, then IMHO what needs to happen next is GT racing must be made harder. GT racing should never be about grand action every day. If they turn it in such circus and i suspect there are strong tendencies to do that, due to that likely selling better, then i guess some people will be happy and other, likely minority, rather disgusted. We'll see.

Short term, somebody has to put a stomp on Pogi and Jonas. And i have an idea on who. Hopefully on the last stage, each time. Now, when i say each time, read that as i don't actually want anybody to win all the times. All have to lose from time to time, if we want a normal sport.

 

[tobydawq]

For me such things are rather normal, this is what i am hoping to get out of a GT. Personally i don't want some grand action every day, as when i get that i somehow feel i am taken for a fool. If this will continue, action every day at a GT race, then IMHO what needs to happen next is GT racing must be made harder. GT racing should never be about grand action every day. If they turn it in such circus and i suspect there are strong tendencies to do that, due to that likely selling better, then i guess some people will be happy and other, likely minority, rather disgusted. We'll see.

It's not normal at all. I don't know which Grand Tours you have seen before, certainly not the same ones that I have.

We're not talking about grand action every day, we're talking about basically nothing happening for nineteen stages. If you cannot grasp that there is a continuum there between those two things, I don't know what to tell you. Other than Primoz Roglic winning makes everything happening before Lussari irrelevant, and we're back to my initial suspicion and you're just paddling in the hope of not being caught out on blind fanboyism for the 100,000th time.

 

[CyclistAbi]

TL;DR In real life long climax is considered GOAT.

We had severe flooding, nature elements, life unfolding together with the race, Rogla losing a couple of seconds, gaining them back, crashes, other riders doing their things, riders twisting organiser arm, fans from being enraged to heaven alike feelings ... it was all there. We even had Kuss. All the little things. Exposed. I can agree, though, we were not in the state of sugar induced coma. We could actually embrace it to the fullest. Especially the last stage. Our bodies, souls and minds were totally ready for it, to embrace the greatens. People claiming it was all boring, they most surely aren't in it for cycling anyway. Rather eat a chocolate.

 

[tobydawq]

People claiming it was all boring, they most surely aren't in it for cycling anyway.

Yes they are.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yes they are.

Then we are in luck, aren't we? Golden era is upon us. I actually don't mind it, cycling gave me much and i am extremely grateful for that and i suspect there will still be something left in it for me too.

For all the oppressed people, forced into GT boredom, rejoice!

 

[Squire]

If there's one thing that all the great GTs I've watched during the last couple of decades or so have in common, it's that they have not been a long snoozefest with just one single climax at the end. The last three Giri are all very near the bottom of the list of all GTs I've watched. 2022 and 2023 because everybody rode around holding hands until the final mountain stage, and 2024 because everybody not named Pogacar did the same. And Pog is not to blame. Some of the Armstrong and Contador GTs have shown that a GT can be a great watch despite one rider being dominant.

I'm fearing a repeat of the 2022 Giro for this Vuelta, with all the contenders both believing in their chances and not believing in their chances enough at the same time. The riding style of the potential contenders also don't fill me with great hopes. At least we can rely on the usual unipuerto-fest forcing some bite-sized action on many stages. The 'Youtube-friendly' Vuelta routes of the past decade are good for a GT with a high floor for entertainment value, but also a low ceiling.

 

[sam6]

Beautiful editions.

P.S. As for GT triple and all the talks about it. In my opinion it's mostly BS and neither Pogi or Jonas will win a GT triple in their carers. As this two seem to suggest they can.

I don't think they will win them either in practice. But I think if Pogi were to ride the Vuelta this year he will win. But they won't want to try as it's risky and neither of them will get a better opportunity than this year which is why I think he should

 

[Valv.Piti]

2022 and 2023 was pure garbage. 2023 was worse than 2022, and I think both were worse than Tour de France 2017 and 2012 as well which should be damn near impossible. The Giro is trash, and the Vuelta has proven much better since 2020.

This Vuelta has tons of hard finishing climbs at around 9 km at 9% or thereabouts which forces riders to show their hand. Also the Vuelta is is general very different to the Giro and riders shape is more up in the air and fluctuating a bit more due to it being the 3rd GT of the year and very rarely a single target GT goal for the riders.

Also, I do think we have the best stage of the year, and relatively early on as well: Purche + Hazallanes + Hazallanes
I may be biased as this area of Spain and these climbs in particular are my absolute favorites in racing period, but this will be a banger stage. When has Hazallanes and Purche not delivered?

 

[ice&fire]

When has Hazallanes and Purche not delivered?

Everytime they've been in the run in to a finish the ski station using the main road.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Everytime they've been in the run in to a finish the ski station using the main road.

True. As the main climbs they are amazing though

 

[Netserk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1817623715116441924

View: https://x.com/cirogazzetta/status/1817623715116441924

 

[Samamba]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1817623715116441924

View: https://x.com/cirogazzetta/status/1817623715116441924

Thought this was known for a few weeks now. Without any bad luck he should be in red after day 1.
Not sure who even threaten him. Van Aert if he's actually riding? A mechanical for Tarling is probably needed.

3rd best might be guys like Campenaerts or Oliveira already. Or even Segaert if he made some steps. And there definitely not coming close.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I'll add "other notable riders". Is Wout 100%?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So will Teddy lead from the start to the finish? Oh wait...wrong race.
Or maybe not? A late plot twist still possible

 

[FroomeWagon]

With Remco, Jonas and Pogacar all very likely (more or less confirmed) not participating, this edition will be one of the more open races. In this season in particular, thats somewhat welcome after Mathieu and Pogacar basically dominating every major race so far. The route is amazing, so we should more or less be guaranteed a great race.

The route can be found here.

I will be updating this thread with riders who are confirmed to take part and who are likely to take part. I have not really been paying that much attention, so my hope is you will help me keep track, so this first list is more of a 'draft' than anything really. Note that some riders below "confirmed" might therefore not necessarily be 100% and riders below "likely" might have already confirmed it, so we can help eachother out instead and keep track of it:

Confirmed:
Enric Mas
Sepp Kuss
Mathias Skjelmose
Mikel Landa
Adam Yates
Joao Almeida

Likely:
Primoz Roglic
Richard Carapaz
Jai Hindley
Aleksandr Vlasov
Cian Uijtebroeks
Antonio Tiberi
Dani Martinez
Ben O' Connor
Isaac Del Toro
Juan Ayuso
Matthew Riccitello
Florian Lipowitz
Tao G. Gart
Max Poole
Hugh Carthy
Nairo Quintana
Lennart van Eetvelt
Giulio Ciccone
Carlos Rodriguez
Einer Rubio
Felix Gall
Thymen Arensman
Santi Buitrago
Ilan van Wilder
Pello Bilbao

Unlikely:
Remco Evenepoel
Egan Bernal
Laurens De Plus
Tom Pidcock
Derek Gee
Matteo Jorgenson
Simon Yates

Other notable riders (non GC):
Josh Tarling

Shoot!

What about Froome? He has been putting the hard miles in and is deserving of a shot at his 8th GC win.

 

[Samamba]

Ganna is skipping Vuelta?

Honestly not sure, just haven't heard anything about him riding it but now thinking of he might be.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

UAE is 98% certain to win, the question is just will it be Almida, Yates, Ajuso, McNutly, politt, morgado, Soler, groschartnwr, cristen, de torro, majka sikavob, bjerg or somebody else.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1817623715116441924

View: https://x.com/cirogazzetta/status/1817623715116441924

I wonder if they are going to try to turn him into a GT guy at some point. He showed a bit of climbing form at the Dauphine for a guy of his weight and size and they historically like doing this kind of stuff. They also need some good Brit to get back some media attention in GB I guess.

 

[RedheadDane]

UAE is 98% certain to win, the question is just will it be Almida, Yates, Ajuso, McNutly, politt, morgado, Soler, groschartnwr, cristen, de torro, majka sikavob, bjerg or somebody else.

Definitely not!
1. He's a bit too... not a GC rider for winning a GC.
2. He's going to do PNDKR, which overlaps with the Vuelta, so he can't ride.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

UAE is 98% certain to win, the question is just will it be Almida, Yates, Ajuso, McNutly, politt, morgado, Soler, groschartnwr, cristen, de torro, majka sikavob, bjerg or somebody else.

If there is too much tension regarding Vuelta leadership and UAE wants to wash their hands of the decision then they always have a working solution: take Pogi to the race!

 

[tobydawq]

UAE is 98% certain to win, the question is just will it be Almida, Yates, Ajuso, McNutly, politt, morgado, Soler, groschartnwr, cristen, de torro, majka sikavob, bjerg or somebody else.

Sikavob I think.

 

[Eagle_Alps]

UAE is 98% certain to win, the question is just will it be Almida, Yates, Ajuso, McNutly, politt, morgado, Soler, groschartnwr, cristen, de torro, majka sikavob, bjerg or somebody else.

It seems that here everybody believes that this Vuelta is not worth more than a 2.1 race.
So Hirschi wins?

 

[Cassirer]

Sikavob I think.

Nah, mcnutly will go nuts!