Vuelta a Andalucia (Ruta del Sol) 20th -24th of February

[Libertine Seguros]

What did you say when Schleck finished 8th at the Montepaschi?

The Texan tried not to make a clown of himself when he raced? You bet! He raced for only 40 days a year (criteriums included), just like girlfriend Ullrich. Jokes! It would have been very telling if he never tried to win 'em. Clenbutador only races for 50 days a year (until July !) while Andy should be up 70 or something (not great but hey...). With ups and downs, for sure but at least he races Montepaschi and from March to September.

Nah I definitely think those who race little are worse than those who race a lot but with ups and downs !

Last year Andy Schleck:

Before the Ardennes Classics:
83rd, Tirreno-Adriatico
DNF, Milan-San Remo
DNS, stage 2, Volta a Catalunya
13th, Vuelta al País Vasco

So yes, he built form and put in 15 race days... but apart from a half hearted push on the Alto de Arrate, did nothing whatsoever.

Before the Tour:
24th, Tour of California
14th, Tour de Suisse

After the Tour:
DNS, stage 10, Vuelta a España
DNF, Giro di Lombardia

- 67 race days. Of which 60 were in stage races.

Here are the complete rundown of times he finished in the top 10 in a stage in the season:
7th, stage 4, Vuelta al País Vasco
5th, stage 3, Tour de France
1st, stage 8, Tour de France
7th, stage 9, Tour de France
5th, stage 12, Tour de France
4th, stage 14, Tour de France
1st, stage 17, Tour de France
4th, stage 1, Vuelta a España (TTT)

The problem people have with Schleck is not that he doesn't race, or even that he takes a long time to build up form. It's that he doesn't try to do anything off form. He's content to roll in with the autobus and bury himself at pretty much all times other than his four weeks of the year. Some riders will give it their all when out of form; that's one of their ways to ride themselves into form, pushing themselves to and beyond the limit. Schleck's not like that.

Let's contrast to Contador. Contador did 51 days of racing in 2010 - 16 fewer than Schleck. Furthermore, only 2 of those days were in one-day races - though he finished in as many one-day races (and both were top 10 in both) if you take the Luxembourg championships out of the equation.

Of those 49 days of racing he did, here are the stages Contador finished in the top 10 in:
2 stages (inc. a win), Volta ao Algarve
5 stages (inc. a win), Paris-Nice
1 stage, Critérium International
3 stages (inc. a win), Vuelta a Castilla y León
5 stages (inc. a win), Dauphiné
7 stages, Tour de France

So despite racing 11 fewer days in stage races, and 16 fewer race days overall, Contador finished in the top 10 in 15 more races.

Now, maybe Schleck's form peaks and troughs are more extreme than Contador's, and Schleck isn't able to maintain the same level of achievement when off form that Contador can. But the difference between them is not as great as the results show; Schleck could certainly treat, say, Tirreno-Adriatico, with more respect.

 

[Christian]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a damn whether Schleck "tries" in the Ruta Del Sol or not?

Honestly, I think you are and I aplaud you for it. Instead of discussing the actual race we have been discussing someone who finished 84th (more or less) on the first stage. Most people because they love to hate him, me because I love him

Let's contrast to Contador.

I think this is the main problem, and i've tried to point it out before. The only rider you can really compare Schleck to is Contador, but at the same time they are completely different riders (and I would also say personalities, despite not knowing any of them personally).

I think you counted 67 race days for Andy in 2010. Let's say he is in top form 4 weeks out of the year (Tour de France and Ardennes), and one week close to top form (Tour de Suisse), that makes approximately 35 days of competitive racing, which would be half his season. I think that's pretty good.
Contador rides his whole season competitively, and that's good for him. Andy doesn't, and that is also fine in my opinion.

As for Andy's post-TdF season last year, it was definitely bad, but he has shown better performances in the years before, for example when he finished 4th in Lombardia and around 5th (not exactly sure anymore) of the Olympic Road Race. The Vuelta was a screw-up, but to be fair he was ill during the preparation races to Lombardia and then crashed during Lombardia. In the early season he also had problems with his knee after being run over by a car while training. I'm not coming up with excuses, I just think it's fair to mention those things.

 

[The Hitch]

Andrew can do what he wants. Though i always cheer against him, Im not someone who hates on him. Hes still someone who lives and breathes this thing of ours and it pleases me when i hear non cycling fans say they like Schleck.

But for me spending it all on the Tour, and saying that the problem with Evans is that he does too many races other than the Tour, is not kosher.

I will always have infinitely more respect for those like Contador and Valverde and Rodriguez who live and breathe cycling for cycling itself, not just the glamour and glory of the Tour. Who give it all in every single race, for whom only the race they are in that very day matters, and for a hundred different reasons they are far better representatives of what cycling is.

So i will spend a lot of time dumping on Andrew for this, as will many others, and you can sarcastically claim to write letters all you want, we are right to do so and i invite anyone who loves the sport of road cycling to join me in this.


Here i stand, i can do no other etcetera etcetera.

 

[Echoes]

Am I the only one really interested in Montepaschi? One of the handful of road races I really like !!

As Christian puts it, he couldn't defend his chances last year, he was back from injury. We can excuse him. Now, if he doesn't do as well this year as he did in 2009, I'll be disappointed.

Libertine, why d'you leave out one-day races ??

Being a classic fan, I can't understand that. On the French forums, they seem to argue that a stage race like Dauphiné is more prestigious than Liège or the Flèche (and of course, Montepaschi, they don't even know it exists). They'll always make me laugh. Now we've got GT riders interested in classics and I'm rather fine with it, be it just the Ardennese ones.

16 days difference is rather big, for me. 67 days is not super, all right. But it's close to the norm, given the fact rather might be sick or injured. And I stand by what I said. Being present at a race and finishing it is already paying your respect to the organizers. Much more than being on holiday. Contador winning the races he races is the least you ask for someone who only races 51 days a year.

How can anyone have nostalgia for the Texan/Stasi-man era? These really were two mugs, Tour de France-oriented, racing for 40 days, criteriums included. Besides, they were super dopers. Morally, they haven't even won anything.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But... we DON'T have nostalgia for the Texan era. That's the point.

We'd rather see a decent-sized calendar that's raced hard than a larger calendar that isn't raced hard. Schleck does a full-sized calendar, but only actually bothers for as many races as Lance ever did, which makes his presence at races like Tirreno-Adriatico little use to anyone.

I also eliminated one-day races simply because in this respect he is comparable to Contador. They both finished 2 one-day races (barring the Lux nationals), both times in the top 10. Schleck raced a few more, but didn't finish a single one outside of Ardennes Week. And if finishing races and being present is enough to pay it your respect, then what of the Volta a Catalunya, where Andy pulled out after the prologue? That's straight out of the Cipo playbook, that is.

Outside of Ardennes Week and the Tour, Andy Schleck's only notable results were a 7th in a País Vasco stage and a 4th in a TTT.

Contador raced a smaller calendar, but was up in the mix for stage wins, GCs and putting together results in big races for three whole months (from Algarve to the Ardennes) then again for another two (Dauphiné and Tour).

So one guy does nothing outside of 4 weeks of the year, but is present in races on more days than another guy who is constantly racking up results for 5 months.

Sorry, which one's meant to be the throwback to the Lance/Jan era again?

 

[ingsve]

Am I the only one really interested in Montepaschi? One of the handful of road races I really like !!

The race is really nice but for now I'm still a little ****ed at the organizers since they totally screwed up the invitations. Only 4 out of last years top 10 have a chance at riding it again this year and none of the podium. Also only one of the former champions has a chance to ride it. It will mostly be a pure italian affair with some Leopard riders and perhaps a couple more. They are really taking the race in the completely wrong direction. They could have a future classic on their hands but instead they risk just making it another in the line of anonymous italian one day races.

 

[Ryaguas]

Clenbutador only races for 50 days a year (until July !)

Andrew can do what he wants. Though i always cheer against him, Im not someone who hates on him. Hes still someone who lives and breathes this thing of ours and it pleases me when i hear non cycling fans say they like Schleck.

But for me spending it all on the Tour, and saying that the problem with Evans is that he does too many races other than the Tour, is not kosher.

I will always have infinitely more respect for those like Contador and Valverde and Rodriguez who live and breathe cycling for cycling itself, not just the glamour and glory of the Tour. Who give it all in every single race, for whom only the race they are in that very day matters, and for a hundred different reasons they are far better representatives of what cycling is.

So i will spend a lot of time dumping on Andrew for this, as will many others, and you can sarcastically claim to write letters all you want, we are right to do so and i invite anyone who loves the sport of road cycling to join me in this.


Here i stand, i can do no other etcetera etcetera.

+1.... Nailed it

 

[Ferminal]

The race is really nice but for now I'm still a little ****ed at the organizers since they totally screwed up the invitations. Only 4 out of last years top 10 have a chance at riding it again this year and none of the podium. Also only one of the former champions has a chance to ride it. It will mostly be a pure italian affair with some Leopard riders and perhaps a couple more. They are really taking the race in the completely wrong direction. They could have a future classic on their hands but instead they risk just making it another in the line of anonymous italian one day races.

+ no live coverage.

 

[theyoungest]

Just a few months ago Montepaschi was getting nominated as the sixth Monument on this forum. How quickly things can change (by not inviting Team Sky).

It remains what it was: a mostly Italian affair on a beautiful course in beautiful surroundings.

 

[Anonymous]

todays stage - 162km

final kilometres

GC prior to the stage (all riders within 30 seconds)

1 Markel Irizar Aranburu (Spa) Team RadioShack 12:41:09
2 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:00:01
3 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack 0:00:02
4 Jerome Coppel (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:03
5 Luis Pasamontes Rodriguez (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:08
6 Thomas Lövkvist (Swe) Sky Procycling
7 Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Sky Procycling 0:00:09
8 Ivan Rovny (Rus) Team RadioShack 0:00:10
9 Beñat Intxausti Elorriaga (Spa) Movistar Team
10 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) Team RadioShack 0:00:12
11 Xabier Zandio Echaide (Spa) Sky Procycling 0:00:13
12 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:00:16
13 Leopold Konig (Cze) Team Netapp 0:00:18
14 Francisco José Ventoso Alberdi (Spa) Movistar Team
15 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:20
16 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Katusha Team
17 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
18 Jonathan Hivert (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:23
19 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Team RadioShack 0:00:24
20 Stijn Devolder (Bel) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team
21 Francis De Greef (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto
22 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:25
23 Christian Knees (Ger) Sky Procycling 0:00:26
24 Yuriy Trofimov (Rus) Katusha Team
25 Peio Bilbao (Spa) Orbea Continental
26 Matteo Carrara (Ita) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:00:27
27 Antonio Piedra Perez (Spa) Andalucia Caja Granada
28 Marco Marcato (Ita) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:00:30

really, with 3 riders placed within 13 seconds of the lead, the onus is on sky today to try and make things happen. They have the most options.

 

[will10]

That climb to 600m before the finish is begging for a Gilbert-esque attack, I suspect we'll see a very messy sprint

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

+ no live coverage.

no? I think their was last year on rai

 

[TeoSheva]

That climb to 600m before the finish is begging for a Gilbert-esque attack, I suspect we'll see a very messy sprint

Ventoso again?

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

no? I think their was last year on rai

Was geo-restricted I'm pretty sure, remember there being no stream available on the night anyway.

like youngest said tho, it is an italian race, not sure they even care for making the race big.

really, with 3 riders placed within 13 seconds of the lead, the onus is on sky today to try and make things happen. They have the most options.

meh can't see a lot happening, Might be a messy sprint as will suggested, and some what splintered, but I doubt that much damage will occur in that final few km.

 

[boomcie]

For the overall:
I don't see a rider in the top 15 who will be able to create a big enough gap in the last 2k. Still, if I would have to pick someone capable of doing this, it would be Uran. But still, 9 seconds is too much.

For the stage:
Probably we'll get another sprint with Ventoso as the winner, as long as he did not injure himself yesterday.

 

[Ferminal]

no? I think their was last year on rai

Only highlights on Rai. There was a big fuss in the thread last year when the live coverage didn't happen.

 

[Jamsque]

I don't think Sky will be able to make anything happen, but I'd like to see them try.

 

[ingsve]

For the overall:
I don't see a rider in the top 15 who will be able to create a big enough gap in the last 2k. Still, if I would have to pick someone capable of doing this, it would be Uran. But still, 9 seconds is too much.

For the stage:
Probably we'll get another sprint with Ventoso as the winner, as long as he did not injure himself yesterday.

While I don't think anyone will escape to grab the overall victory, what could happen is that there is a split in the peloton up the small climb and that some of the top GC guys are stuck behind the split.

 

[theyoungest]

Ventoso won here last year. Together with Gerrans he got a gap on the field. A 2 second gap. Irizar shouldn't be too afraid.

 

[boomcie]

While I don't think anyone will escape to grab the overall victory, what could happen is that there is a split in the peloton up the small climb and that some of the top GC guys are stuck behind the split.

Indeed, that is more likely. Still, probably just another bunch sprint.

 

[theyoungest]

And a bunch sprint it was, albeit with a surprising number two: Samuel Sanchez. Freire won.

 

[jaylew]

For the stage:
Probably we'll get another sprint with Ventoso as the winner, as long as he did not injure himself yesterday.

He lost his place on GC so I'm guessing he took it easy. He was bruised up pretty bad, especially on one of his legs so I didn't think he'd figure on today's stage.

 

[Jamsque]

Old, slow Freire strikes again! He could be in the mix at M-SR again this year.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

1. Oscar Freire (Rabobank) 3:46:42 (PALMARES COMPLETO)
2 51 SÁNCHEZ, Samuel ESP EUS m.t.
3 95 HIVERT, Jonathan FRA SAU m.t.
4 23 APPOLLONIO, Davide ITA SKY m.t.
5 21 URAN, Rigoberto COL SKY m.t.
6 35 MARCATO, Marco ITA VCD m.t.
7 11 VAN DEN BROECK, Jurgen BEL OLO m.t.
8 84 PASAMONTES, Luis ESP MOV m.t.
9 92 COPPEL, Jerome FRA SAU m.t.
10 116 LOBATO, Juan J ESP ACG m.t.

uran showing how fast he is. ironically I spoke in this topic earlier that I hoped sky would try to stimulate uran working not only on his itt but also on his sprint as in his junior days he was incredibly fast.

 

[jaylew]

I'd love to see him go out with another win at MSR or Worlds. Of course, there's a decent chance he won't retire if either happens. Well, Worlds at least.