Vuelta a España 2011

[Arnout]

Actually, Angliru is a climb where you tempo climb instead of explosive bursts all the time(unless you're name if Contador of course)

But of course he'll lose time there, because he's not a pure climber.

You tempo climb but you don't rely on the kind of climbing skills TT climbers can bring. Its no coincidence that only pure climbers win on the steepest climbs.

On the super steep climbs Contador is not the best in the world by the way.

 

[El Pistolero]

You tempo climb but you don't rely on the kind of climbing skills TT climbers can bring. Its no coincidence that only pure climbers win on the steepest climbs.

On the super steep climbs Contador is not the best in the world by the way.

He kinda is

 

[Havetts]

Señor Joaquim likes to have a word with you.

 

[Jamsque]

I suspect that once Wiggins has one really bad GC day he will probably shut it down and focus on stages and/or saving himself for worlds.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think the same goes for any of the riders who are potential GC men who claim to only be there for training.

They will try for GC, but if they're not going to get on the podium (ie they have a bad day somewhere) they'll just let go, not going to fight over 9th place.

 

[The Hitch]

the problem for wigging is that on the tour climbs of constant 5, 6 or 7% grades he can pace himself up fairly well. but the angliru gradients keep changing and its just impossible to keep a steady pace. he will suffer big time there.

I know he was off form and not trying but didnt he lose 25 minutes on Zoncolan? Or have i got that mixed up with something else.

I have learned over the years that long grinding climbs, as opposed to shorter steep climbs, is where riders loose more time. If you combine the both then is really worse (Ventoux).

Ventoux is a long grinding climb compared to Finnestre.

And Wiggans didnt lose too much time on it. In fact he lost far more on the short steep Verbier.

I think the biggest gaps come from having a big climb just before the mtf. With little enough space between them so that both are raced.

Something like Mortirolo - Aprica or FInnestre -Sestrieres where the finishing climbs are so weak that the riders dont risk leaving it till the finish and the preceeding climbs are insanely hard that those feeling good/ needing time might as well attack, are the ones that produce the biggest gaps.

And if the gaps arent big after the first one the riders are so tired that the second one does the job despite its weakness. See Basso- Nibali - Scarponi putting 3 minutes into everyone on Aprica.

On the super steep climbs Contador is not the best in the world by the way.

Neither is Anton

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Some diesels need multiple climb stages to get the diesel up to temperature, and perform best in those stages (eg Bruseghin).

Others, however, will really struggle if they aren't given the chance to recover properly between severe climbs. As a result, I think the Lagos de Somiedo stage will be more of a problem for Wiggins. La Covatilla is less suited to him than La Manzaneda or Sierra Nevada, but it comes off an otherwise flat stage, so he should have no trouble. The San Lorenzo/Farrapona double act, however? That could be a real problem.

 

[El Pistolero]

Señor Joaquim likes to have a word with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afFI4alhJQc

He'll have to shout really loud for Contador to hear him.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afFI4alhJQc

He'll have to shout really loud for Contador to hear him.

He said "steepest". 14% is steep but not steepest

On any mountain Contadors throne is secure. But on the short steep 15-20% climbs he was talking about, J Rod is king.

 

[El Pistolero]

He said "steepest". 14% is steep but not steepest

On any mountain Contadors throne is secure. But on the short steep 15-20% climbs he was talking about, J Rod is king.

Angliru is the second steepest climb used in European cycling. Contador flew away from Rodriguez at the 20% part. Jrod isn't the best in anything.

On the short steep stuff he's been beaten by Igor Anton and Gilbert anyway.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Angliru is the second steepest climb used in European cycling. Contador flew away from Rodriguez at the 20% part. Jrod isn't the best in anything.

On the short steep stuff he's been beaten by Igor Anton and Gilbert anyway.

Remind me where Gilbert was in Valdepeñas de Jaén last year? Oh yes, that's right. Eating Igor and Joaquím's wheeltracks.

Is Angliru the second steepest? On what basis? On average, the Rettenbachferner, Kitzbüheler Horn, Zoncolán and Mortirolo are all steeper. Does it reach the second highest specific gradient? Some parts in San Lorenzo de El Escorial reach 28% (they're using that in the Vuelta), but nobody would say Monte Abantos is one of the steepest climbs in the world. And there are a number of those short climbs that reach 20%+ - Mammolshainer Berg, Montelupone, and so on.

Angliru is one of the most evil climbs in the cycling world. That final few kilometres are hell. But the first few steadyish ones pull the average gradient down and make it sound less threatening than it actually is (though it still sounds super threatening, because the last bit is THAT evil).

I would love to see 2011 Gilbert do battle with J-Rod on Montelupone. That's J-Rod's yard. I reckon Rodríguez would still have him.

 

[The Hitch]

Angliru is the second steepest climb used in European cycling. Contador flew away from Rodriguez at the 20% part. Jrod isn't the best in anything.

On the short steep stuff he's been beaten by Igor Anton and Gilbert anyway.

Cauberg aint that steep. On Muur hes been beaten by Gilbert once, when Gilbert was on the form on his life. Last year he owned Gilbert there.

Besides, what is the gradient of Muur?

You cant seriously use Vuelta 10 as an argument. Purito had done just about every race but the Giro leading up to the September and was on peak for all of them. He was not on top form, and was very impressive to come 4th and do so well in so many stages.

When he was in far better shape -he kept up with Contador with ease on Mende while everyone else was grinding away.

Finnestre has an average gradient of 9.7, again not the steepest but Purito seemed pretty good on that despite being ill.

We will see over the coming weeks i guess. Of course J Rod is a rider that has never really performed when expected to and outperformed expectations when overlooked, so I wont be surprised if he gets beaten by Tony Martin on Valdepenas Jaen then wins a sprint somewhere.

 

[El Pistolero]

Cauberg aint that steep. On Muur hes been beaten by Gilbert once, when Gilbert was on the form on his life. Last year he owned Gilbert there.

Besides, what is the gradient of Muur?

You cant seriously use Vuelta 10 as an argument. Purito had done just about every race but the Giro leading up to the September and was on peak for all of them. He was not on top form, and was very impressive to come 4th and do so well in so many stages.

When he was in far better shape -he kept up with Contador with ease on Mende while everyone else was grinding away.

Finnestre has an average gradient of 9.7, again not the steepest but Purito seemed pretty good on that despite being ill.

We will see over the coming weeks i guess. Of course J Rod is a rider that has never really performed when expected to and outperformed expectations when overlooked, so I wont be surprised if he gets beaten by Tony Martin on Valdepenas Jaen then wins a sprint somewhere.

Mur is 9.5% gradient with steepest parts up to 20%(and 26% in one bend) where he couldn't drop Gilbert, Gilbert was sitting in third position most of the climb while Jrod was behind him struggling. Last year in FW he got beaten by Cadel Evans as well.

Don't worry, I wasn't talking about Cauberg. That's a hill(Mur de Huy as well, but at least it's steep.).

In this year's Vuelta he might be the best, but there's no Contador, Cadel Evans or Gilbert here.

Contador won twice already on Mende and finished second once at the Tour. But I doubt Jrod would have been able to follow on his initial acceleration as Jrod anticipated on Contador's move by attacking earlier on the climb(like Rujano at the Etna for example). And they didn't use the full Mende climb at the Tour and they finished on a flatter part if I remember correctly. At Paris-Nice, Contador destroyed Purito on Mende.

Actually there are many examples of Jrod getting beaten on these short steep climbs or long steep climbs. I'd say Contador in top shape is the best on pretty much every type of mountain(not hills) finish, especially in a Grand Tour where recuperation plays a big role.

In top shape, I think Contador can handle Jrod on finishes like Mur de Huy. And Gilbert certainly can.

 

[The Hitch]

In top shape, I think Contador can handle Jrod on finishes like Mur de Huy. And Gilbert certainly can.

Gilbert cant beat J Rod on the "steepest" finishes.

As LS said - Valdepeas de Jaen.

Check Mate.

 

[El Pistolero]

Gilbert cant beat J Rod on the "steepest" finishes.

As LS said - Valdepeas de Jaen.

Check Mate.

But Igor Anton can

Ergo he can't be the best. On Zoncolan which is the steepest climb used in cycling Igor Anton won as well. Jrod just doesn't have enough wins on these steep long/short uphill finishes to be ever called the best. To be the best, you need to win.

Contador's palmares on steep stuff:

* 2 stages at Paris-Nice that ended on Mende.
* Vuelta stage with MTF on Angliru: second steepest climb used in cycling.
* Won Pais Vasco twice including 5 stage wins(including some hilly time trials). Pais Vasco has many steep hills.

Jrod:

* Won a stage in the Tour that ended on Mende, outsprinted Contador on a pretty much flat part.
* Won 2 stages in T-A with uphill finishes at Montelupone.
* Won a stage at Vuelta with uphill finish at Peña Cabarga(average of 9%, steepest part at 19%. 6km long).

Ps: Gilbert 2011 can handle a finish like that these days.

 

[Ferminal]

Ps: Gilbert 2011 can handle a finish like that these days.

Like Macerata or Chieti?

 

[El Pistolero]

Like Macerata or Chieti?

He wasn't in top shape back then. His peak was at the Ardennes.

 

[the asian]

Is Duarte in bad shape?

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I would love to see 2011 Gilbert do battle with J-Rod on Montelupone. That's J-Rod's yard. I reckon Rodríguez would still have him.

Montelupone is too much for Philbert imo. No way he'll ever beat J-Rod there.

And I remember him letting Scarponi go in T-A this year on a hill like that... Don't remeber wich one it was though...

 

[LandEscape]

Montelupone is too much for Philbert imo. No way he'll ever beat J-Rod there.

And I remember him letting Scarponi go in T-A this year on a hill like that... Don't remeber wich one it was though...

Montelupone isn't that harder than Huy... So, considering this year Fleche...
But in order to beat J-Rod on that "wall" he needs to be in top shape.

 

[Duartista]

Is Duarte in bad shape?

I replied to the same question a few pages back:

WRT to Duarte, I really have no idea. He hasn't raced since the Giro, but he started light training at the end of June and more intense work in the last week of July. He is hoping to ride himself into form in the first week.

I don't think anyone knows his exact state of form. He stated at the beginning of the month that he was at about 70% and hoped to be at 80-90% by the time the Vuelta starts. Geox have said that he will be expected to support Menchov, Sastre, Cobo and Blanco for GC, but will have opportunities to go for stage wins.

 

[just some guy]

BMC

Mathias Frank (SUI), Martin Kohler (SUI), Karsten Kroon (NED), Taylor Phinney (USA), Manuel Quinziato (ITA), Mauro Santambrogio (ITA), Ivan Santaromita (ITA), Johann Tschopp (SUI), Greg Van Avermaet (BEL).

 

[just some guy]

Lampre for the Vuelta a España: Francesco Gavazzi (ITA), Marco Marzano (ITA), Manuele Mori (ITA), Przemyslaw Niemiec (POL), Alessandro Petacchi (ITA), Aitor Perez Arrieta (ESP), Daniele Righi (ITA), Michele Scarponi (ITA), Alessandro Spezialetti (ITA).

 

[LandEscape]

BMC

Mathias Frank (SUI), Martin Kohler (SUI), Karsten Kroon (NED), Taylor Phinney (USA), Manuel Quinziato (ITA), Mauro Santambrogio (ITA), Ivan Santaromita (ITA), Johann Tschopp (SUI), Greg Van Avermaet (BEL).

I can only see Van Avermaet and Phinney doing good for stage wins. Frank missed his chance at Tour of Suisse ( it's difficult he will peak again) so he'll try for breaks.
Also Tschopp has to sow something cause this year was mediocre at best.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The full press release about the BMC Vuelta team is here.

They have plenty of options. Quite a lot of stages that suit Greg van anermaet and he could also look at going for the point classification. Tschopp, Frank and Santaromita can look for chances in the mountain stages and a good general classification and the others can go in breaks and look for stage wins or help TP and GVA in the sprints.