Vuelta a España 2011

[Waterloo Sunrise]

3rd at the Baby Giro, 4th at the u23 Worlds RR, and 3rd at the British RR as a 19 year old all probably had something to do with his getting a contract.

Great, I'll keep waiting, the flood of results so far clearly show he wouldn't have been better off at An Post or some such before maturing in to a top level team.

 

[El Pistolero]

Last I checked, Nibali and Kennaugh were not the same person.

Yup, Nibali was riding for GC thus straining him self even more.

Now what they're doing to poor Kreuziger at Astana, that's called ruining. Letting the poor guy finish the Giro and then the Tour with a bad injury.

 

[hatcher]

Great, I'll keep waiting, the flood of results so far clearly show he wouldn't have been better off at An Post or some such before maturing in to a top level team.

I have no idea why you were expecting a flood of results. He's ridden one race so far for himself, where he finished 3rd at a very tough Route du Sud. That's it. Every other race he's ridden for others.

Your expectations are the problem.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I have no idea why you were expecting a flood of results. He's ridden one race so far for himself, where he finished 3rd at a very tough Route du Sud. That's it. Every other race he's ridden for others.

Your expectations are the problem.

The problem is I happen to think that if he really is a special talent, he would have been better off riding for himself in lower level races rather than spending 2 years honing his domestique skills.

 

[Descender]

Vuelta, anyone?

 

[l.Harm]

As far as I can see Evans hasn't changed, his environment has. Andy's character is likely the problem. As I posted in another thread, when you can't motivate yourself to make an effort to ride for your brother when he's fighting for a Vuelta win, especially after the same brother had suffered the extreme disappointment of crashing out of the Tour the same year, you've got some unresolved issues of extreme selfishness. He apparently was too overwhelmed with his disappointment in losing a Tour that he thinks was his to win to really put in the effort to effectively support Frank.

Evans totally changed after he became WC. Look how he deals with fans, press etc before and after. Difference like day and night. Look how he changed his bike twice when Contador attacked very relaxed, he wouldn't do it that way in 2007.

And you're concluding uncarefully about Andy. Maybe he wasn't in form in the Vuelta. Maybe he was too tired after the Tour for the Vuelta. But no, Mister is 100% sure it's extreme selfishness. Andy and Fränk wish eatchother the best, they say it in every interview and we all could see this year in the Tour that Andy constantly wachted Fränk when he attacked. If he was so selfish he wouldn't just 50m attack but drop his brother and maybe other rivals (it would actually be the best thing but that's an other discussion).

 

[uphillstruggle]

People keep underrating Nibali's climbing abilities.

Antón took 40 secs from Nibali last May on the Zoncolan, which is harder than Angliru. Last year Nibali lost about 10 secs to Purito on Peña Cabarga, and that was because he was instructed from the car to attack at the wrong place and run out of gas in the last metres.

Nibali only showed weakness last year in Cotobello. Remember that was the only stage with 3 serious climbs. The closest thing to that this year is La Farrapona, the day before the Angliru, but it only has one big mountain pass close to the MTF.

Antón was superb in Andorra but he just took 20 secs from Nibali. With these margins time bonuses will play an important role. Otherwise, he will need to take time in more places than just the walls of Angliru and Peña Cabarga.

you're right. Anton willl have to be in top form for three weeks to beat Nilbbles. Saying the Italian gets 1-2 minutes in the TT. Anton has to take time every stage that goes up hill; which he can but it will be small amounts at a time (Nibali has learnt to tempo climb very well so we won't see him blow).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

True story: Vincenzo Nibali will be the first rider to attempt to defend a GT other than the Tour since Danilo di Luca;

Giro 2008: di Luca 8th overall
Vuelta 2008: Menchov entered Giro and Tour, skipped Vuelta due to fatigue
Giro 2009: Contador entered Tour, as Giro/Vuelta only done due to Astana Tour exclusion in 2008
Vuelta 2009: Contador entered Tour as per above
Giro 2010: Menchov elected to miss Giro to focus on Tour as had been too fatigued from Giro in 2009
Vuelta 2010: Valverde serving suspension
Giro 2011: Basso elected to focus on Tour as had been too fatigued from Giro in 2010.

 

[icefire]

And you're concluding uncarefully about Andy. Maybe he wasn't in form in the Vuelta. Maybe he was too tired after the Tour for the Vuelta. But no, Mister is 100% sure it's extreme selfishness. Andy and Fränk wish eatchother the best, they say it in every interview and we all could see this year in the Tour that Andy constantly wachted Fränk when he attacked. If he was so selfish he wouldn't just 50m attack but drop his brother and maybe other rivals (it would actually be the best thing but that's an other discussion).

In 2007 Evans was 2nd at the Tour and 4th at the Vuelta. He missed the podium by 10 secs. Sastre was 4th in the Tour and 2nd in the Vuelta.

In 2008 Sastre won the Tour and was 3rd in the Vuelta.

Like Evans and Sastre, Andy has the talent to be at the top in those two GTs in the same season. Unlike them, he's just a part-time cyclist.

 

[l.Harm]

At what age? Schleck is 26 yet. It's not easy at that age to be top in two GT's (Giro/Tour and Tour/Vuelta I mean of course).

 

[l.Harm]

True story: Vincenzo Nibali will be the first rider to attempt to defend a GT other than the Tour since Danilo di Luca;

Giro 2008: di Luca 8th overall
Vuelta 2008: Menchov entered Giro and Tour, skipped Vuelta due to fatigue
Giro 2009: Contador entered Tour, as Giro/Vuelta only done due to Astana Tour exclusion in 2008
Vuelta 2009: Contador entered Tour as per above
Giro 2010: Menchov elected to miss Giro to focus on Tour as had been too fatigued from Giro in 2009
Vuelta 2010: Valverde serving suspension
Giro 2011: Basso elected to focus on Tour as had been too fatigued from Giro in 2010.

Tour 2010. Contador.

oh, sorry for double.

 

[El Pistolero]

At what age? Schleck is 26 yet. It's not easy at that age to be top in two GT's (Giro/Tour and Tour/Vuelta I mean of course).

Contador already won 4 GTs at age 26. If Schleck is a big talent it should be no problem. He's not that much younger than Contador

 

[Libertine Seguros]

At what age? Schleck is 26 yet. It's not easy at that age to be top in two GT's (Giro/Tour and Tour/Vuelta I mean of course).

Paco Mancebo managed 6th in the Tour and 2nd in the Vuelta in 2004, aged 28... then 4th in the Tour and 3rd in the Vuelta a year later.

Andy Schleck is a much more gifted rider than Paco Mancebo.

Alejandro Valverde, at the same age, went top 10 in both the Tour and the Vuelta. Menchov did the Giro and the Tour in 2008 - 5th and 4th.

It's not so much about age (depending on when you mature. Andy Schleck may only be 26 now but he's been at the top level for four years now), but for him everything after July is part of the wind-down. He's quit the Vuelta after one week and before any major climbing in the last 2 years, and he's not gone back to the Giro since his breakthrough race in 2007. He's not won a stage race, nor does he try to.

Andy Schleck is one of the most naturally gifted climbers in the world. If people like Paco Mancebo can top 5 both races in a year, he certainly can. But compared to the likes of Contador, Evans and Valverde, who we see up at the front contesting every race they enter, he's a guy who is happy to roll around at the back waving to fans for 11 months.

 

[icefire]

At what age? Schleck is 26 yet. It's not easy at that age to be top in two GT's (Giro/Tour and Tour/Vuelta I mean of course).

Fignon was 7th in the 1983 Vuelta and 2nd in the 1984 Giro, the years he won the Tour before he was 24. I'm fine if Andy doesn't want to race the Vuelta in order not to strain too much his body. I have a concern for World Tour teams sending nobodies to those races that don't matter to their big boys and limiting the number of invites the race organiser can give to other teams.

 

[l.Harm]

1. Contador is more talented than Schleck and a better climber when both are on top. So to compare these two is not really fair.

2. Of course Schleck is very talented, it doesn't say he can be top at Tour ánd Vuelta because there doesn't have to be a relationship between climb talent and stamina.

 

[phanatic]

At what age? Schleck is 26 yet. It's not easy at that age to be top in two GT's (Giro/Tour and Tour/Vuelta I mean of course).

This may be right. There really don't seem many people who have accomplished the consecutive GT's successfully. Evans was 30 when he did it. Sastre began at 26 or 27, but who can keep up with him? Contador, but he has only started that effort. Menchov only did it competitively at 30. Quim did it last year at 31. Kreuziger is a near miss, having done it the past three years, but being much weaker in the second GT each time, at least by final standing. Basso was 27 for the 2005 Giro-Tour.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Can't find this anywhere... Will there be time bonusses this year?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

We haven't been told anything to the contrary, so we must assume that there are. There always have been.

 

[Parrulo]

will basso be riding?

him and nibali would make a very good duo for the mountains. . . .

 

[Bavarianrider]

Is the TT more or less the same like the first TT in 1999? It was lsited at 46,4km then today 47km.
Pretty huge gaps for a flat 46km TT

1º 1 OLANO, Abraham ESP ONC 53:32
2º 41 ULLRICH, Jan GER TEL a 57
3º 201 CASERO, Angel ESP VIT a 2:17
4º 205 GLEZ. GALDEANO, Igor ESP VIT a 2:18
5º 125 MCRAE, William USA MAP a 2:40
6º 171 MAURI, Melchor ESP SLB a 2:57
7º 2 CUESTA, I¤igo ESP ONC a 2:58
8º 191 HAMILTON, Tylor USA USP a 3:11
9º 206 PARRA, Ivan COL VIT a 3:17
10º 199 CASEY, Dylan USA USP a 3:27
11º 34 EKIMOV, Vjatceslav RUS AMI a 3:29
12º 4 JALABERT, Laurent FRA ONC a 3:33
13º 117 KIVILEV, Andrei KAZ FES a 3:34
14º 126 NARDELLO, Daniele ITA MAP a 3:34
15º 204 GLEZ. GALDEANO, Alvaro ESP VIT a 3:44
16º 22 GWIAZDOWSKI, Grzegorz POL COF a 3:47
17º 194 HOJ, Frank DEN USP a 3:51
18º 121 TONKOV, Pavel RUS MAP a 3:55
19º 98 MORENI, Cristian ITA LIQ a 3:57
20º 107 VAN DE WOUWER, Kurt BEL LOT a 4:05
21º 75 HERAS, Roberto ESP KEL a 4:08
22º 207 PEÑA, Victor Hugo COL VIT a 4:09
23º 9 ZARRABEITIA, Mikel ESP ONC a 4:13
24º 113 GARCIA CASAS, F‚lix ESP FES a 4:13
25º 91 TETERIOUK, Andre KZA LIQ a 4:15
26º 147 NIERMANN, Grischa GER RAB a 4:19
27º 76 RUBIERA, Jos‚ Luis ESP KEL a 4:19
28º 8 SERRANO, Marcos ESP ONC a 4:20
29º 123 FARESIN, Gianni ITA MAP a 4:23
30º 11 ZULLE, Alex SUI BAN a 4:25

 

[icefire]

Is the TT more or less the same like the first TT in 1999? It was lsited at 46,4km then today 47km.
Pretty huge gaps for a flat 46km TT

1º 1 OLANO, Abraham ESP ONC 53:32
2º 41 ULLRICH, Jan GER TEL a 57
3º 201 CASERO, Angel ESP VIT a 2:17
4º 205 GLEZ. GALDEANO, Igor ESP VIT a 2:18
5º 125 MCRAE, William USA MAP a 2:40
6º 171 MAURI, Melchor ESP SLB a 2:57
7º 2 CUESTA, I¤igo ESP ONC a 2:58
8º 191 HAMILTON, Tylor USA USP a 3:11
9º 206 PARRA, Ivan COL VIT a 3:17
10º 199 CASEY, Dylan USA USP a 3:27
...

Pretty huge TT riders at the top there, heads and shoulders above everyone else. It was a pity that Olano crashed and had to abandon what would have been an epic fight with Ullrich.

I don't know if the course is the same this year, but there shouldn't be much difference. Salamanca is in a flat area and their only chances are following the river downstream, upstream or riding away from the river, which is what they are doing.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Pretty huge TT riders at the top there, heads and shoulders above everyone else. It was a pity that Olano crashed and had to abandon what would have been an epic fight with Ullrich.

I don't know if the course is the same this year, but there shouldn't be much difference. Salamanca is in a flat area and their only chances are following the river downstream, upstream or riding away from the river, which is what they are doing.

I rember Olano setting a crazy pace in the first half of the race. He already had one minute on Ullrich at 25km.

 

[craig1985]

RS so far:

Andreas Klöden
Janez Brajkovič
Nélson Oliveira
Haimar Zubeldia
Markel Irizar
Tiago Machado
Sérgio Paulinho
Plus two more (will probably include McEwen)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kloden-and-brajkovic-to-lead-radioshack-in-vuelta-a-espana

(I assume Oliveira's first name has the accented 'e', given that the footballer for Benfica goes by the same name)

 

[Parrulo]

i am surprised thehog is letting oliveira ride a GT at 22. . . should be a good experience for him. the guy hasn't shown any type of impressive climbing in a while/ever so i don't expect anything from him tbh but it will be nice for him.

seems like machado won't get a co-leadership role . . . lets hope kloden and brajkovic fail miserably on the first MTF so that can change

 

[SiAp1984]

Pretty huge TT riders at the top there, heads and shoulders above everyone else. It was a pity that Olano crashed and had to abandon what would have been an epic fight with Ullrich.
.

If I remember correctly, Jan would only have lost a few seconds to Olano hadn't he had a flat tire caused by a nail on the road. But Olano was stronger that day. Jan dominated the ITT on the penultimate day in 1999, I think he won by almost three minutes ahead of the second (Zülle?)... Those were time-trialists back then... Would be nice to see Klöden do something similar in the ITT this year and FINALLY grab his first ever GT stage victory...

Is it correct that the stage profiles of this year's Vuelta are not up yet at the CN website? Or am I blind?