Vuelta a España 2011

[icefire]

Not sure screwing over your stars is good for the team in the long term. Might make potential signings think twice in the future.

They all should learn from Cadel Evans. Last time he changed team he announced it after the Worlds.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Not sure screwing over your stars is good for the team in the long term. Might make potential signings think twice in the future.

How is it screwing over your stars? Wouldn't preventing the rider who is staying from riding any Grand Tours to let a rider who is leaving ride a second one send precisely the wrong message?

Keeping Haussler happy matters to Garmin. Keeping Thor happy is BMC's problem.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Rodriquez joint favourite I would be very surprised if he even podiumed.

The odds on any of the top favourites are poor. There is some value lower down the list though. Starting with VDB2 - if he has form, he's surely a much better bet than most of those with shorter odds.

After him, the odds start getting long quite quickly. Kruijswijk at 100-1? Dan Martin at 150-1? Sure, those guys are rightly outsiders, but it's a bit dangerous to offer those sort of odds on guys whose top level isn't really clear yet.

 

[Bubban]

Isn't the finish on the streets that lead to the Alto de Abantos? Nasty gradients.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoJfOFBLLl0&feature=player_detailpage#t=210s

I think so. This should be the 700meter mark if i am reading the roadbook correct. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+l...d=rJUNUfsFG6ssEF82n1xCqA&cbp=12,323.4,,0,8.01

 

[Tank Engine]

The odds on any of the top favourites are poor. There is some value lower down the list though. Starting with VDB2 - if he has form, he's surely a much better bet than most of those with shorter odds.

After him, the odds start getting long quite quickly. Kruijswijk at 100-1? Dan Martin at 150-1? Sure, those guys are rightly outsiders, but it's a bit dangerous to offer those sort of odds on guys whose top level isn't really clear yet.

If you're a betting man, then they are probably pretty good odds. My favourites would be Anton and Nibali (probably Nibbles as he has shown himself to be consistent over the last year). Scarponi will be competitive. That flat TT high up on the central plateau is going to be a killer for JRo. VDB2 might be an interesting bet. His form is uncertain after the tour crash, but he was going well just beforehand and he has shown that he can come high up in GC in a GT. Danny Boy is a great climber, but he hasn't shown that he can compete in a three week race yet (OK, he hasn't ridden many), so he's definitely a big question mark. I'm interested to see how Wiggins will ride, but I think the Tour suits him more as the gradients tend to be less steep. Brajkovic might also cause a surprise. In terms of overall squads, Geox look to have a strong squad (well it's the only GT they're doing) and Rabobank should be in the mix for stage wins and have a couple of outsiders for GC.

 

[goggalor]

Yes he is. There are several stages that suit Hushovd perfectly. He's also one of the most valuable riders one can have for a TTT.

Funny how Vaughters was tw@tering about ethics regarding riders who've signed for new teams after Phil supposedly gave Phinney a pull a few days ago. The guy really is the biggest hypocrite in the sport.

 

[therealtimshady]

I'm shocked di Luca isn't riding. The team said at the start he will ride for himself at the vuelta and di Luca said he was training for it as well

 

[saganftw]

I'm shocked di Luca isn't riding. The team said at the start he will ride for himself at the vuelta and di Luca said he was training for it as well

rodriguez is sole leader in the team,there is no place for di luca...maybe as a domestique but there is the question if he is willing to work for purito again

 

[Parrulo]

Not sure screwing over your stars is good for the team in the long term. Might make potential signings think twice in the future.

exactly what Zinoviev Letter said. how is that sending the wrong message? and why should JV care about the feelings of some1 who is leaving?

 

[muscat]

I don't think that's necessarily true.

If they were trying to keep him, then soothing his ego would have perhaps overridden what would be best for the team at the race. Once he decided to leave, soothing his ego would be out the window, it would just be about what's best for the team.

Best for the future of the team – you have got to be joking!

Where is the final list for Garmin for Vuelta? If so, who is in? I can only find the provisional list on the Vuelta website and with no disrespect to the individuals there is no hope for Garmin to win anything at the Vuelta without Hushovd. Farrar two big wins were a result of Hushovds lead outs and in provisional list I have seen no Julian dean either. Hausler lost baddly to Kittel in the tour of Poland, and so against the HTC sprinters, kittel and others I see no change there. The other riders are either domestiques or middle of the road GC contenders. The best hope for Garmin to win anything is to take Farrar, Haussler and Hushovd.

Leaving out Hushovd makes no sense if JV is looking at ‘the future of the team’ even if he is leaving. Without Hushovd it looks like a glorified training run for Garmin of no interest to anyone including the sponsors. And I agree with Hrotha, treating a rider like Hushovd like this is not good in the long term, as it will deter potential signings in the future

 

[Parrulo]

Best for the future of the team – you have got to be joking!

Where is the final list for Garmin for Vuelta? If so, who is in? I can only find the provisional list on the Vuelta website and with no disrespect to the individuals there is no hope for Garmin to win anything at the Vuelta without Hushovd. Farrar two big wins were a result of Hushovds lead outs and in provisional list I have seen no Julian dean either. Hausler lost baddly to Kittel in the tour of Poland, and so against the HTC sprinters, kittel and others I see no change there. The other riders are either domestiques or middle of the road GC contenders. The best hope for Garmin to win anything is to take Farrar, Haussler and Hushovd.

Leaving out Hushovd makes no sense if JV is looking at ‘the future of the team’ even if he is leaving. Without Hushovd it looks like a glorified training run for Garmin of no interest to anyone including the sponsors. And I agree with Hrotha, treating a rider like Hushovd like this is not good in the long term, as it will deter potential signings in the future

how does hushovd has a good chance to win a stage at the vuelta? he can't win mass sprints anymore and the uphill sprints of the vuelta are too tough for hushovd. and if you mean breaks then haussler has as many chances as tour of winning a stage and that way the points stay with garmin.

unless ofc hushovd can really win on the vuelta uphill sprints that are pretty much all as tough as Valdepeñas de Jaen . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPADmm7ZzKQ&feature=related

ya right

 

[goggalor]

exactly what Zinoviev Letter said. how is that sending the wrong message? and why should JV care about the feelings of some1 who is leaving?

Apparently it's OK for teams to screw over riders, but not the other way around. It's the hypocrisy that bothers me.

 

[Parrulo]

what are you talking about? why are we talking about screwing here?

no1 is screwing any1. thor signed for another team because his contract was close to end and the team is sending a rider that is staying with the team so they can keep the points in case said rider gets some.

sounds logical to me. . . pure business.

 

[goggalor]

what are you talking about? why are we talking about screwing here?

no1 is screwing any1. thor signed for another team because his contract was close to end and the team is sending a rider that is staying with the team so they can keep the points in case said rider gets some.

sounds logical to me. . . pure business.

Garmin are screwing Thor by not letting him ride the Vuelta. That's business, whatever. But when Phil gives Phinney a pull in Eneco Tour, it's "unethical".

 

[hrotha]

exactly what Zinoviev Letter said. how is that sending the wrong message? and why should JV care about the feelings of some1 who is leaving?

Because a potential signing might fear if things don't work out or if he's at the end of his contract and simply wants a breath of fresh air, he will be sidelined.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Because a potential signing might fear if things don't work out or if he's at the end of his contract and simply wants a breath of fresh air, he will be sidelined.

Any rider should understand that if there's a reasonably close call between a rider who is staying and a rider who is going that the team will favour the rider who is staying. That we're even having this discussion is a result of the peculiar culture of cycling, in which a rider often continues to ride for his old team for months after he's signed with a new one.

In most team sports, the second it becomes apparent that a player is negotiating a transfer, they'll be out of the first team if it's at all possible to get rid of him. That's because (a) letting them play creates conflicts of interest and (b) picking them over someone who is staying creates resentment and dissension in the ranks.

Garmin have a very simply choice between two quite similar riders in Haussler and Hushovd. Both want to ride the Vuelta. So of course the one who is staying gets the nod.

As for whoever suggested sending all three sprinters, you have got to be kidding. It's messy enough sending two.

 

[maltiv]

how does hushovd has a good chance to win a stage at the vuelta? he can't win mass sprints anymore and the uphill sprints of the vuelta are too tough for hushovd. and if you mean breaks then haussler has as many chances as tour of winning a stage and that way the points stay with garmin.

unless ofc hushovd can really win on the vuelta uphill sprints that are pretty much all as tough as Valdepeñas de Jaen . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPADmm7ZzKQ&feature=related

ya right

There are several stages he can win. Come on, now you're just being biased as you clearly don't like him, but you can't possibly say that someone who has won at least 1 stage in the last 7 gts he has entered doesn't have a good chance of winning a stage! And yes, he can win reduced bunch sprints even when not slightly uphill, he did that last year in the vuelta.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Tomo just mentioned SBS will have 8 live stages at the vuelta.
That is most promising.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

ODDS:

Joaquim Rodriguez
5.00
Michele Scarponi
5.00
Igor Anton
5.00
Vincenzo Nibali
5.00
Denis Menchov
7.00
Jurgen Van Den Broeck
12.00
Bradley Wiggins
17.00
Andreas Kloden
21.00
Janez Brajkovic
21.00
Carlos Sastre
81.00
Steven Kruijswijk
101.00
Juan Jose Cobo
101.00
Fabio Duarte
101.00
Andrey Kashechkin
101.00
Nicolas Roche
101.00
Christophe Le Mevel
101.00
Thomas Lovkvist
151.00
Bauke Mollema
151.00
Tiago Machado
151.00
Mikel Nieve
151.00
Daniel Martin
151.00
Jakob Fuglsang
201.00
Marzio Bruseghin
201.00
Kanstantsin Siutsou
201.00
Kevin De Weert
251.00
Peter Sagan
251.00
Chris Anker Sorensen
251.00
Luis Leon Sanchez
251.00
David Blanco
251.00
Ruben Plaza
251.00
Daniel Moreno
251.00
Tony Martin
251.00
Nelson Oliveira
501.00
Alexandre Geniez
501.00
Fredrik Kessiakoff
501.00
Eros Capecchi
501.00
Stijn Devolder
501.00
Haimar Zubeldia
501.00
Benat Intxausti
501.00
Kevin Seeldraeyers
501.00
David Lopez Garcia
501.00
David Moncoutie
501.00
Matteo Carrara
501.00
Dario Cataldo
501.00
Sylvain Chavanel
1001.00
Carlos Barredo
1001.00
Antonio Piedra Perez
1001.00
Vasili Kiryenka
1001.00
Cyril Dessel
1001.00
Taylor Phinney
1001.00
Mark Cavendish
10001.00
Oscar Freire
10001.00

lol @ cav

 

[Swede1]

With Menchov you can never tell, until few stages into the race. Anton was 9th in Burgos last year, a minute behind Sammy Sanchez. 8th this year, a minute behind Sammy Sanchez....

Oh, in that case I think it may be hard for Brajkovic. I think top 10 is realistic though.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Tomo just mentioned SBS will have 8 live stages at the vuelta.
That is most promising.

Yeah, like last year. Having Matt Keenan commentate with most likely Scott McGrory will be good.

I guess they'll show the stages

Benidorm (TTT)
Playas de Orihuela (Sprint)

San Lorenzo de El Escorial (mountain)
Sierra de Bejar. La Covatilla (mountain)

La Farrapona Lagos de Somiedo (mountain)
Angliru (mountain)

Vitoria (mountain)
Madrid (sprint)

 

[sulgpallur]

Taaramäe is going to Vuelta

 

[Escarabajo]

If you're a betting man, then they are probably pretty good odds. My favourites would be Anton and Nibali (probably Nibbles as he has shown himself to be consistent over the last year). Scarponi will be competitive. That flat TT high up on the central plateau is going to be a killer for JRo. VDB2 might be an interesting bet. His form is uncertain after the tour crash, but he was going well just beforehand and he has shown that he can come high up in GC in a GT. Danny Boy is a great climber, but he hasn't shown that he can compete in a three week race yet (OK, he hasn't ridden many), so he's definitely a big question mark. I'm interested to see how Wiggins will ride, but I think the Tour suits him more as the gradients tend to be less steep. Brajkovic might also cause a surprise. In terms of overall squads, Geox look to have a strong squad (well it's the only GT they're doing) and Rabobank should be in the mix for stage wins and have a couple of outsiders for GC.

Second GT. They rode the Giro.

 

[Escarabajo]

Best for the future of the team – you have got to be joking!

Where is the final list for Garmin for Vuelta? If so, who is in? I can only find the provisional list on the Vuelta website and with no disrespect to the individuals there is no hope for Garmin to win anything at the Vuelta without Hushovd. Farrar two big wins were a result of Hushovds lead outs and in provisional list I have seen no Julian dean either. Hausler lost baddly to Kittel in the tour of Poland, and so against the HTC sprinters, kittel and others I see no change there. The other riders are either domestiques or middle of the road GC contenders. The best hope for Garmin to win anything is to take Farrar, Haussler and Hushovd.

Leaving out Hushovd makes no sense if JV is looking at ‘the future of the team’ even if he is leaving. Without Hushovd it looks like a glorified training run for Garmin of no interest to anyone including the sponsors. And I agree with Hrotha, treating a rider like Hushovd like this is not good in the long term, as it will deter potential signings in the future

Haven't we seen this before with Garmin? Everybody always questions their team selections and tactics and then boom. They always come up with the goods. Even without Thor they'll come up with a plan. They are the new Kelme.

 

[Barrus]

Second GT. They rode the Giro.

and people thought they had a good team there as well, but they were completely invisible