Vuelta a España - Stage 16: Gijón - Cotobello 181.4 km

[Dutchsmurf]

I sure hope they place barriers on those last kilometers, or it will end in a disaster.

 

[khardung la]

Intersting.

Do you have APM ratings for Alp, Ventoux, Zonvcolan, Mortirolo, Stelvio etc just out of interest for comparison??

I do:

Bola del Mundo 339
Alpe D'huez 278
Mont Ventoux 380
Mortirolo 474
Gavia 352
Zoncolan 586
Stelvio 348
Tourmalet 333
Aubisque 255

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Your missing that it will kill DT to admit that he was wrong. Watch out for more spin.

How am I wrong? 1 stage F.Schleck climbs good.
All others he was far the pace, including yesterday
And instantly, I'm wrong?

Ok. Whatever you want sir.

 

[hrotha]

Vuelta officially too long for Van Garderen:
84 177 VAN GARDEREN, Tejay THR + 30' 30''

Oh well, he'll learn from the experience, and he showed he has talent.

 

[Descender]

Intersting.

Do you have APM ratings for Alp, Ventoux, Zonvcolan, Mortirolo, Stelvio etc just out of interest for comparison??

You're talking major collosses there...

Alpe D'Huez 278
Mont Ventoux by Bédoin 380
Mont Ventoux by Malaucène 345
Monte Zonzolan 543
Alto de l'Angliru 517
Passo del Mortirolo 480
Passo dello Stelvio 446

Here are some major, famous climbs with a lower APM ranking than the Bola:

Plan de Corones 334
Col du Tourmalet by Luz St-Savoir 318, by La Mongie 329
Passo Coe 331
Monte Terminillo 311
Port de Pailheres 301
Col d'Izoard 234 and 240

 

[The Hitch]

Oh i see now
Couldnt get Madline kronplatz alpe etc.

Ventoux - 380
Tourmalet - 342

Stelvio 348
Mortirolo 474
Angliru- 516


But the king. Obviously

Zoncolan 586

Edit. You beat me to it.

Shouldnt have spent so much time looking how to spell Kronplatz

 

[Mellow Velo]

Forget about numbers of the Bola del Mundo.

Look at the pictures here

Fuc...............I mean flipping heck! That ain't a road, that's a very bad footpath!
Spain's answer to Plan de Corones.

 

[The Hitch]

One more point about Bolla. Its right next to Madrid. How many high quality mountains are next to a metropolis. They had 1 million on the Zonc and Tourmalet which are miles from the nearest city. So, taking into account that Vuelta gets less spectarors, i expect good crowds which always intensifies the race for me anyway.

 

[The Hitch]

Forget about numbers of the Bola del Mundo.

Look at the pictures here

Looks good for those of us who want spaniards to take it out of Nibali.

 

[Descender]

APM is one way to measure it, of course, there are others. But the guys that came up with it do a very good job.

Depending on the way you look at the climb, Zoncolan it's 543 or 586.

 

[Rocksteady]

Its pretty apparent that Nibali is the GC guy most expect to gain time at the ITT. Anyone else that can jump up in the ranks with a good performance? LuLu Sanchez is a good TTer. After today and the ITT could he be in the top ten? Danielson (with the BIGG assumption that he doesn't self-destruct) could maybe get top 5??

 

[Ferminal]

Forget about numbers of the Bola del Mundo.

Look at the pictures here

That's amazing, it's a footpath...

Just imagine it with thousands of spectators.

 

[The Hitch]

APM is one way to measure it, of course, there are others. But the guys that came up with it do a very good job.

Depending on the way you look at the climb, Zoncolan it's 543 or 586.

586. Thats more than twice the 270 given to alpe d huez.

 

[indurain666]

Rodriguez will be licking his lips when the last 6km come around.

+1, basically last 4k @10.5%

 

[search]

Its pretty apparent that Nibali is the GC guy most expect to gain time at the ITT

yeah, that's interesting. By the way: yesterday I did a little research and couldn't find many long time trials with 40k+ he participated in besides at the tour de france and his resuilts there weren't remarkable

 

[khardung la]

586. Thats more than twice the 270 given to alpe d huez.

That is why I like APM, it really accounts for the brutal slopes. However ideally there should be a way to add up points for the rough cement and the exposure to the winds that they will have in Bola del Mundo. It makes it a whole different experience if compared with other mountains with similar coefficient and "normal" conditions.

 

[Descender]

586. Thats more than twice the 270 given to alpe d huez.

Yes... APM that flaw IMHO, it relies a bit too much on steepness. Zoncolan is harder than Huez, but not twice as hard.

 

[Escarabajo]

Bola de Mundo looks nice now. I remember that climb where Savoldelli had to defend his pink jersey from the Simoni and Di luca attack. That was a spectacular stage. I forgot the name of that climb, but it had the last few kilometers with narrow open roads. I can't imagine something like that with thousands of spectators.

About the last TT: We need to remind ourselves that the last TT is all about recovery. So a good time trialist might not do so well if he hasn't recovered very well. So for Nibali the rest day is the key. Otherwise he can be close to his rivals (Not that they are in top form either). But we have to look at riders that had some fuel in the last climb, like Schleck. Roche seems to be recuperating better than the other top GC.

If Nibali don't put too much time of his rivals, the Saturday stage will be a great battlefield.

 

[Escarabajo]

Yes... APM that flaw IMHO, it relies a bit too much on steepness. Zoncolan is harder than Huez, but not twice as hard.

I had my own list of ratings of a climb based on energy required to climb (Joules) and the long climbs always came on top. I am not sure if that is the case here. Of course depends on the weight of the average cyclist that you use for the gradings.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

yeah, that's interesting. By the way: yesterday I did a little research and couldn't find many long time trials with 40k+ he participated in besides at the tour de france and his resuilts there weren't remarkable

I know, they aren't. He can limit the damge to real time trial specialists but he isn't as good as in his espoir years (Nibali was 3rd in the espoir worlds ITT behind Brajkovic and T.Dekker).
In fact, in 2009 and 2008 Nibali managed to lose about every head-on TT against Gesink (yup, Gesink).

However, compared to Rodriguez and Mosquera, Nibali is pretty good and should take at least 1m+. I expect even 1m30

 

[La Pandera]

They said that people who rode it commented it is typical Spanish. Lots of talk, but doesn't deliver.

Who is "they" and were "they" riding in motorized vehicles? What is this "typical Spanish. Lots of talk but doesn't deliver" nonsense?

 

[icefire]

I had my own list of ratings of a climb based on energy required to climb (Joules) and the long climbs always came on top. I am not sure if that is the case here. Of course depends on the weight of the average cyclist that you use for the gradings.

Excessive reliance on steep slopes is a fault of almost any formula used for measuring climb difficulty you may find on climbing databases on the web. Their formulas are arbitrary in the sense that they're not derived from any physics at all. And they're all linear with distance and quadratic with slope. Apparently they never learnt about fractional exponents.

Of course, formulas should be derived from physics, but in any case it would be hard to account for weather and pavement condition.

 

[khardung la]

I had my own list of ratings of a climb based on energy required to climb (Joules) and the long climbs always came on top. I am not sure if that is the case here. Of course depends on the weight of the average cyclist that you use for the gradings.

I would agree with that purely in terms of energy spent/power exerted (more meters of drag, of friction with the road, of basal energy condition to maintain etc...). But there are many other parameters to take into account. If I would be competing I would prefer to climb 2 times Alpe D'huez than one Zoncolan

 

[Christomir]

However, compared to Rodriguez and Mosquera, Nibali is pretty good and should take at least 1m+. I expect even 1m30

I'm happy to see you spare a nice word about Nibali for once

 

[khardung la]

They said that people who rode it commented it is typical Spanish. Lots of talk, but doesn't deliver.

Hey man, why that statement?? Are you talking about the Spanish mountain tops or the Spaniards in general? Did either of both ****ed you off for any reason? Can you provide with more details?