Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2021: Stage 9 (Puerto Lumbreras - Alto de Velefique, 188.0 km)

[Lequack]

Did Primoz do some DIY modifications on his gloves?

 

[Lequack]

Also some fast time today from Roglic and Mas

https://twitter.com/x/status/1429472347619303436

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1429472347619303436

 

[Leinster]

Yeah, I noticed it as well. When riding with Mas he spent a lot of time out of the saddle in a very low position. Maybe reducing the aerodynamic drag?

They were going pretty quick up the flatter slopes of that climb, maybe 25kmh? Aerodynamics definitely make a difference at that speed; I can confirm this as someone who averages about that on the flat!

 

[Stringer Bell]

Ineos tactics are baffling - why do they keep riding like they have the strongest rider in the race? See also the TDF. There must be at least one person in that team who can come up with a plan b. All that money yet they implode when plan A doesn’t work. Here is an innovative idea for Ineos - and this is for free - TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Since they’re a “moving target” so can’t already be sitting down






I’m going to bed now, it’s been a long night. xD

It's a good thing tomorrow is a rest day, movingtarget will be able to rest what are inevitably achy joints by now.

 

[Lequack]

Some more pics

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Also some fast time today from Roglic and Mas

https://twitter.com/x/status/1429472347619303436

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1429472347619303436

8 seconds faster than Gesink and Mosquera really isn't that impressive, that also means that the Haig/Lopez/Yates group were slower than the fastest 12 riders in 2009. Doesn't suggest that the level is overly high right now, which in turn explains Mas doing better than his usual fifth or sixth place.

 

[Escarabajo]

8 seconds faster than Gesink and Mosquera really isn't that impressive, that also means that the Haig/Lopez/Yates group were slower than about 10-12 riders in 2009. Doesn't suggest that the level is overly high right now, which in turn explains Mas doing better than his usual fifth or sixth place.

I guess it didn't take that much to break that old record to be honest. Heat has been a big factor in some of the bad performances in this Vuelta.

 

[Leinster]

Ineos tactics are baffling - why do they keep riding like they have the strongest rider in the race? See also the TDF. There must be at least one person in that team who can come up with a plan b. All that money yet they implode when plan A doesn’t work. Here is an innovative idea for Ineos - and this is for free - TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT

Well at least they’re trying attacks instead of putting Yates on the front to try and bore everyone to death.

They will have to get more creative if they want to get anything out of this race, though.

 

[Red Rick]

8 seconds faster than Gesink and Mosquera really isn't that impressive, that also means that the Haig/Lopez/Yates group were slower than the fastest 12 riders in 2009. Doesn't suggest that the level is overly high right now, which in turn explains Mas doing better than his usual fifth or sixth place.

Seeing a lot of such reasoning this year. When gaps are really big it means the race was a lot harder which in turn implies that actually breaking the record despite a really poor pacing strategy is pretty impressive.

 

[ice&fire]

8 seconds faster than Gesink and Mosquera really isn't that impressive, that also means that the Haig/Lopez/Yates group were slower than about 10-12 riders in 2009. Doesn't suggest that the level is overly high right now, which in turn explains Mas doing better than his usual fifth or sixth place.

I guess it didn't take that much to break that old record to be honest. Heat has been a big factor in some of the bad performances in this Vuelta.

Seeing a lot of such reasoning this year. When gaps are really big it means the race was a lot harder which in turn implies that actually breaking the record despite a really poor pacing strategy is pretty impressive.

The 2009 stage was in mid-September, with lower temperatures.

They did Velefique twice, but climbed Venta Luisa from an easier side. Avg speed was 5km/h lower than today.

 

[perico]

The 2009 stage was in mid-September, with lower temperatures.

They did Velefique twice, but climbed Venta Luisa from an easier side. Avg speed was 5km/h lower than today.

Don’t bring logic into the equation when posters are trying to find another way to slag on Enric Mas.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Seeing a lot of such reasoning this year. When gaps are really big it means the race was a lot harder which in turn implies that actually breaking the record despite a really poor pacing strategy is pretty impressive.

Johnny Hoogerland of all people would have finished 14th today with his climbing time back then (while missing the top-20 in the actual 2009 stage). Times outside the top-10 aren't really determined by the pacing strategy of the big guns, IMO, so that at least tells us the strength in depth is pretty poor right now.

 

[BlueRoads]

I didn't watch the stage, but reading it it sounds like Caruso was very impressive...

 

[Red Rick]

Johnny Hoogerland would have finished 14th today with his climbing time back then (while missing the top-20 in the actual 2009 stage). Times outside the top-10 aren't really determined by the pacing strategy of the big guns, IMO, so that at least tells us the strength in depth is pretty poor right now.

Especially with the lesser riders I think it's very much a metric of how hard the entire day has been.

In 2009 they did an extra Velifique, but they did Venta Luisa from the easy as hell side, and the overall stage was a full 5km/h slower.

 

[perico]

Such a weak field. Just ignore the former TDF winner who targeted the race as well as the #1 ranked rider in the world and the one guy who could maybe beat Pogacar. Also ignore the numerous perennial Gc contenders.

Just ignore the news page hype of a Giro winner who was back to his best after bettering a career domestique. Only riders like that guy are allowed to be good. A young rider like Mas must never improve since he’s not the chosen one.

As long as it can explain the unfathomable event that Enric Mas might not have reached his ceiling by finishing 5th and 6th at the TDF. God forbid that he is more talented than some posters thought.

We know he won’t ever live up to the early hype of the next Contador, but please don’t let him perform well enough to give people false hope, because the forum knows he’s the Levi Leipheimer of the current peloton. Only Remco, a Columbian, or some random Ukrainian who won a couple of Dauphine stages are allowed to compete against the might of the Slovenians and be taken seriously.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Especially with the lesser riders I think it's very much a metric of how hard the entire day has been.

In 2009 they did an extra Velifique, but they did Venta Luisa from the easy as hell side, and the overall stage was a full 5km/h slower.

The 2009 stage started at 29 metres to today's 468 and (as per LFR) had a D+ of 5205 metres to today's 4725, so more climbing and less descending, which partially explains the difference in speed. The fast start to today's stage definitely also had an effect, but on a day that wasn't exceptionally hard it still requires a fair bit of spin to say the standard at this Vuelta in general and this stage more specifically isn't lower than usual given the data available. I mean, full credit to Enric Mas for the way he's ridden so far, but I don't think it's slagging him off to say he wouldn't be one of the two strongest climbers in an average-level GT on current form. It's his greater consistency compared to the rest of the field that's giving him a shot at winning this race, and that's a sign of quality too - just not a sign of him becoming the new Contador after all, which again isn't a criticism, only an observation.

 

[Pinot's goat]

The GC group slowed down many times in the middle of the climb, they could have broken the record by much more.

 

[perico]

The 2009 stage started at 29 metres to today's 468 and (as per LFR) had a D+ of 5205 metres to today's 4725, so more climbing and less descending, which partially explains the difference in speed. The fast start to today's stage definitely also had an effect, but on a day that wasn't exceptionally hard it still requires a fair bit of spin to say the standard at this Vuelta in general and this stage more specifically isn't lower than usual given the data available. I mean, full credit to Enric Mas for the way he's ridden so far, but I don't think it's slagging him off to say he wouldn't be one of the two strongest climbers in an average-level GT on current form. It's his greater consistency compared to the rest of the field that's giving him a shot at winning this race, and that's a sign of quality too - just not a sign of him becoming the new Contador after all, which again isn't a criticism, only an observation.

Nobody realistically expects him to turn into Contador. There won’t be another Contador. Does that mean he won’t contend or even win a GT in the coming years? How are you privy to know his ceiling as a GC contender or just how good of a climber he can be when he reaches his peak form?

 

[VeloMaster]

Also some fast time today from Roglic and Mas

https://twitter.com/x/status/1429472347619303436

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1429472347619303436

Wait, I thought Roglic was "struggling." I am not sure what race some were watching today, but in the version I saw, he played a difficult hand masterfully, was never in trouble, and was stronger than Mas in the last kms, when he began to ride and opened the gap.

 

[Eeslliw]

Does Roglic always ride so low? I thought he's normally a bit more upright? Maybe he's still got some issues from his Tour crashes, even though he's obviously very strong.

I think he has pretty low position on the bike normally. One of the benefits of being ex ski-jumper (in case you didn't know ) is extreme flexibility, which is also handy at TTs where he excels.

 

[Unchained]

Great stage, topo and terrain really beautiful. Caruso's courage was breathtaking, really hurt himself..and Roglic had a red jersey on..the scarlet letter and looked at his competitors and rode away from them..like the close times between the top 10, a crash or crack could shake things up..not sure that any director is going to lay out a strategy were anyone tries to attack and drop Roglic..so it's looking more like his race to lose..not sure Yates,Lopez,Bernal are beating him in a drag race uphill and certainly not on flat ground..the guy is showing a pretty wide range in his transmissions gear box..got Tokyo gold, won the TT that started in front of God in a cathedral..I am impressed obviously..
I hope Mas doesn't crack but I am not holding my breath

 

[Rackham]

I think he has pretty low position on the bike normally. One of the benefits of being ex ski-jumper (in case you didn't know ) is extreme flexibility, which is also handy at TTs where he excels.

Roglic is indeed always really low profile on the bike. It's one of his defining characteristics (& he has both a seated & off-the-saddle accelerations which are out of this world). I saw nothing out of the ordinary today in terms of his bike position (& I loved that moment when he teleported himself to Yates & Lopez... i.e. he made it look so effortless).

Wait, I thought Roglic was "struggling." I am not sure what race some were watching today, but in the version I saw, he played a difficult hand masterfully, was never in trouble, and was stronger than Mas in the last kms, when he began to ride and opened the gap.

We've seen Roglic struggle. Today was not it.

For example sometimes even on one of his good days like the Col de la Loze last year in the Tour he looked a bit over the limit (I won't even mention la planche), ditto in the Vuelta at the end (also even his win on the Moncalvillo, he was in serious pain). Today I saw no such facial agony & he was pretty impressive (& that gap he pulled with Mas was way bigger than I thought was possible on this climb).

All in all it was a good day for both Mas & Roglic (& it makes Movistar happy, which is probably important in the Vuelta). But Roglic is in the "zone" & I feel his demeanour (he's zen in this Vuelta) reflects his confidence.

 

[Carols]

Such a weak field. Just ignore the former TDF winner who targeted the race as well as the #1 ranked rider in the world and the one guy who could maybe beat Pogacar. Also ignore the numerous perennial Gc contenders.

The only guy missing is Pogi!

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Does that mean he won’t contend or even win a GT in the coming years? How are you privy to know his ceiling as a GC contender or just how good of a climber he can be when he reaches his peak form?

He's never looked like winning a GT in his career and he hasn't made the top-4 on GC in the last three, so either:

• he's hit peak form for the first time in three years (highly unlikely)
• he's taken a significant jump at age 26 (very possible) of which there was no sign a month ago at the GT he was supposedly peaking for (not that likely)
• the competition is somewhat weaker than usual (only other option)

The fundamental thing with Mas is that he's been really consistent in the past 18 months, which definitely makes him the kind of rider you'd expect to profit from the field being below average. In the case of this Vuelta, Roglic has had a weird preparation due to him crashing out of the Tour, Bernal is very clearly below his best, and the other GC contenders have never won or almost won a GT either. Every rider in the top-10 bar Bernal is Mas' age or older, yet only four of them (Roglic, Bernal, Lopez and Mas himself) have made the top-6 of a GT in the past 5 years. Yates is the only other rider to ever have done so in his career. In other words, nothing about this Vuelta - neither the climbing times not the competition - suggests that the standard is high.

Can Mas ever win a GT, or at least look like doing so? If Geoghegan Hart and Hesjedal can do so, then yes, he can. If he does so in this third week, it will probably be more impressive than either of those performances. But will it happen by beating (or at least battling with) one of the best riders in the world who's in peak form? Highly unlikely. Which brings us back to the original, non-Mas-related point about the standard at this Vuelta.