Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2021: Stage 9 (Puerto Lumbreras - Alto de Velefique, 188.0 km)

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He may well have said (or felt) that, but is it actually the case? And if so, why didn't he just ride away from Primoz and chase red? Go back and look at the last kms. It appears to me that the gap over the chasers only opened up once Roglic began to ride.


This from the CN story, in support ...:

"I don't think I ever had Roglic up against the ropes, we were both going flat out. He's the leader, he's under no obligation to work with me, but even so, he collaborated well and it helped us both," Mas explained. "I'm just happy, at the very least, to be at the same level as Roglic today on the climb."
 
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That was from Eurosport right after the finish. The other one was probably from spanish media, I would assume.
The podcast I was watching had to Spanish reporters and 2 Colombian reporters. I will try to find the interview. It is very interesting that Mas is actually very strong. However there are all kinds of comments of why Roglic doesn't finish it off, like Pogacar did at the Tour. If what Mas said was truth it is more aligned with that Roglic couldn't do anything and was at the limit!
 
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The podcast I was watching had to Spanish reporters and 2 Colombian reporters. I will try to find the interview. It is very interesting that Mas is actually very strong. However there are all kinds of comments of why Roglic doesn't finish it off, like Pogacar did at the Tour. If what Mas said was truth it is more aligned with that Roglic couldn't do anything and was at the limit!
I mean if people think Roglic could have dropped Mas but then decided "nah" then I have a bridge to sell them. They were very evenly matched today.

The problem for Roglic is he's so ridiculously explosive he can match any attack so easily it makes people think he can destroy them with his eyes closed. In reality he can get the gap and then he doesn't know if he can sustain it. It's a bit like Rodriguez, except Roglic is never in a position that he has to attack the other guy cause bonifications, muritos and TTs always put him ahead of other guys. Pogacar is the obvious exception to this.
 
This from the CN story, in support ...:

"I don't think I ever had Roglic up against the ropes, we were both going flat out. He's the leader, he's under no obligation to work with me, but even so, he collaborated well and it helped us both," Mas explained. "I'm just happy, at the very least, to be at the same level as Roglic today on the climb."

This would be the smart thing to say and I think it was definitely a confidence boost moving forward for Mas. Too bad the team is down to six riders.

Roglic is looking solid atm and is riding calculated. Doing what he is supposed to do. The last stage being an ITT is obviously to his advantage, but as long as Mas is that close he cant quite hope that the others will simply start riding for second place quite yet. Bernal and Yates will surely go down swinging and they have a team that could try and ambush Roglic and J-V at some point. Bahrain are capable of that also with their team. Movistar has Superman who isnt afraid to attack. Stage 18 with the altitude should suit him.

A lot can still happen and who knows, even Roglic might have a crisis one of these days before the last day.
 
I think Roglic was pretty much on the limit after the Mas attack. It's as @Red Rick wrote, Roglic has such a good acceleration that he can often follow attacks before only just staying in the attackers slipstream without being able to significantly contribute to the work. Roglic is always pedaling extremely smoothly, even when he is cracking, so the way he looks on the bike doesn't usually tell you much about how good he is feeling. That said, if Roglic is grimacing that is usually a sign that he is at the limit and he was grimacing today. I think he looked a lot like in the 2nd week of the 2019 Giro when Nibali wasn't able to drop him with any attack but he still didn't take any pulls to hunt down Carapaz. People just assumed he was fine anyway because he had been looking so imperious thus far but it turned out he wasn't. Now I'm not saying that the rest of this Vuelta will therefore go like the rest of the 2019 Giro, but I do think that Mas was stronger today.

All in all I'm honestly a little gutted about how the gc battle is going. Mas being able to bring the fight to Roglic is a pleasant surprise but I'm still unsure if I trust Mas to consistently perform on a level to win. Meanwhile Landa and Bernal who I expected to be the two most interesting men to watch are absolutely nowhere. Generally looking back this year of gt's has really been plagued by some of the pre race men to watch crashing out or totally under delivering. Landa and Remco in the Giro (plus Yates only became himself in the third week when he wasn't a real danger anymore) Roglic and Thomas in the Tour and now supposedly Landa and Bernal in the Vuelta. A real pity.
 
The problem for Roglic is he's so ridiculously explosive he can match any attack so easily it makes people think he can destroy them with his eyes closed. In reality he can get the gap and then he doesn't know if he can sustain it. It's a bit like Rodriguez, except Roglic is never in a position that he has to attack the other guy cause bonifications, muritos and TTs always put him ahead of other guys. Pogacar is the obvious exception to this.

This is why I don't see Roglic winning GT against Pogacar. Pogi has shown so many times with his long range attacks (Vuelta 2019, TDF 2020 and 2021, Tirreno-Adriatico 2021 etc.) that he can set this insane watts and just hold them till finish.
Maybe in Pais Vasco on first eye Roglic looked better in that last stage (because he won overall) but when you think Pogacar had to chase first on flats for Brandon (when Roglic was "resting" in front group), then spend all the climb in front (Roglic "only" attacked at halfway up). Roglic did pull for 10-15km on the descent and flat part towards next uncategorized climb, but when Carthy and Gaudu started working Roglic did indeed looked very on the limit, couple of times making some gap so they had to wait for him. In that same part of course in the back Pogacar did get some "help" but that was really little (Yates did some half ass pulls and that is it). And than on the final climb Pogacar did most in the front and even covered attacks (Valverde) himself. So all the riders who got free ride for about 50km couldn't drop rider who spend 95% of that 50km in the front pulling (and those other riders were Valverde, Yates, Jonas etc.). That is insane and just shows he is on another level. Not just little bit better but like his own category.
 
I think Roglic was pretty much on the limit after the Mas attack. It's as @Red Rick wrote, Roglic has such a good acceleration that he can often follow attacks before only just staying in the attackers slipstream without being able to significantly contribute to the work. Roglic is always pedaling extremely smoothly, even when he is cracking, so the way he looks on the bike doesn't usually tell you much about how good he is feeling. That said, if Roglic is grimacing that is usually a sign that he is at the limit and he was grimacing today. I think he looked a lot like in the 2nd week of the 2019 Giro when Nibali wasn't able to drop him with any attack but he still didn't take any pulls to hunt down Carapaz. People just assumed he was fine anyway because he had been looking so imperious thus far but it turned out he wasn't. Now I'm not saying that the rest of this Vuelta will therefore go like the rest of the 2019 Giro, but I do think that Mas was stronger today.

All in all I'm honestly a little gutted about how the gc battle is going. Mas being able to bring the fight to Roglic is a pleasant surprise but I'm still unsure if I trust Mas to consistently perform on a level to win. Meanwhile Landa and Bernal who I expected to be the two most interesting men to watch are absolutely nowhere. Generally looking back this year of gt's has really been plagued by some of the pre race men to watch crashing out or totally under delivering. Landa and Remco in the Giro (plus Yates only became himself in the third week when he wasn't a real danger anymore) Roglic and Thomas in the Tour and now supposedly Landa and Bernal in the Vuelta. A real pity.
Roglic clearly felt good otherwise he doesn't close that gap as explosively as he did.

Overall I'm pretty sure that while they went he only beat Gesinks record by 8s, they probably did the first 5km a lot faster, putting everyone much closer to the limit than they'd normally be so early on a 33 minute climb.
 
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I think Roglic was pretty much on the limit after the Mas attack. It's as @Red Rick wrote, Roglic has such a good acceleration that he can often follow attacks before only just staying in the attackers slipstream without being able to significantly contribute to the work. Roglic is always pedaling extremely smoothly, even when he is cracking, so the way he looks on the bike doesn't usually tell you much about how good he is feeling. That said, if Roglic is grimacing that is usually a sign that he is at the limit and he was grimacing today. I think he looked a lot like in the 2nd week of the 2019 Giro when Nibali wasn't able to drop him with any attack but he still didn't take any pulls to hunt down Carapaz. People just assumed he was fine anyway because he had been looking so imperious thus far but it turned out he wasn't. Now I'm not saying that the rest of this Vuelta will therefore go like the rest of the 2019 Giro, but I do think that Mas was stronger today.

All in all I'm honestly a little gutted about how the gc battle is going. Mas being able to bring the fight to Roglic is a pleasant surprise but I'm still unsure if I trust Mas to consistently perform on a level to win. Meanwhile Landa and Bernal who I expected to be the two most interesting men to watch are absolutely nowhere. Generally looking back this year of gt's has really been plagued by some of the pre race men to watch crashing out or totally under delivering. Landa and Remco in the Giro (plus Yates only became himself in the third week when he wasn't a real danger anymore) Roglic and Thomas in the Tour and now supposedly Landa and Bernal in the Vuelta. A real pity.
Roglic was sick at that point in that Giro...but i know its convenient for ppl to forget that. Mas needs to get time on Roglic, not just stay with him. Roglic today was satisfied to get more time on Bernal...so he worked with Mas. One step at a time. I like Mas too, but unless Roglic crashes or gets sick (the only reasons he "is weak in 3rd week" , Mas wont survive the time trials...as far as competing w Roglic I mean
 
Roglic was sick at that point in that Giro...but i know its convenient for ppl to forget that. Mas needs to get time on Roglic, not just stay with him. Roglic today was satisfied to get more time on Bernal...so he worked with Mas. One step at a time. I like Mas too, but unless Roglic crashes or gets sick (the only reasons he "is weak in 3rd week" , Mas wont survive the time trials...as far as competing w Roglic I mean
It's more about the generic visuals of how Roglic looks like when he's struggling than "he's this bad now"

Meanwhile I agree with @Eeslliw that pure endurance is the biggest difference between Roglic and Pogacar. Roglic' in-race recovery is the only thing that can seem kinda weak to me. I think that when super fresh Rogl might actually have a better 20min W/kg but the difference would be small anyway

Meanwhile I also don't think Pogacar can just go on indefinitely, and I think his form did go down a bit after the Alps in the Tour.
 
Roglic was sick at that point in that Giro...but i know its convenient for ppl to forget that. Mas needs to get time on Roglic, not just stay with him. Roglic today was satisfied to get more time on Bernal...so he worked with Mas. One step at a time. I like Mas too, but unless Roglic crashes or gets sick (the only reasons he "is weak in 3rd week" , Mas wont survive the time trials...as far as competing w Roglic I mean
He got sick, so what? I was literally saying that I don't expect this Vuelta to go like that Giro, I was only saying that his body language and tactics looked similar to a race where many thought he was very strong when he was actually on the limit.
 
He got sick, so what? I was literally saying that I don't expect this Vuelta to go like that Giro, I was only saying that his body language and tactics looked similar to a race where many thought he was very strong when he was actually on the limit.
We all see things differently. A rider , especially a GC rider getting sick is a very large factor on their performance...but if you think that can be written off as so what..i understand, i dont agree with that fwiw...i just see things differently...I am not here to argue. ...its a bike race... I hope the race turns out as you wish. We are all just here to express our thoughts and we all surely see things differently and we can only infer from our experiences from watching the riders over time . I watch all of the races but i am sure i do not see all of the nuances and clues...try as i will :)
 
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I agree with the opinion that Roglic was on the limit today. If he could, he would have dropped Mas - if not sooner, he would have gone for 10-20 sec advantage from 1km out. There’s a rest day tomorrow and no real mountain stage for quite some time so what’s the risk? It‘s not like he will burn out in the final 500 m and give minute to Mas if he fails... on the other hand, he knows very well from last year‘s Vuelta that every second counts so it makes a lot of sense for him to solidify his lead.

That being said - this is not as dramatic as it sounds. He was still far from getting dropped in any case...
 
Jul 7, 2021
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While we can all agree that quite a few of the presumed podium candidates (Bernal, Landa, Carapaz, ) are not at their absolute best, we should not hold that against Roglic, Mas, MAL or speak of a "weak field"

It virtually never happens that all GC riders reach top shape in time at the same GT. The Vuelta in particular is often a lottery in that regard as almost nobody in particular looks to peak for it and riders crash during the season, catch Covid, etc. The depth of this Vuelta is still breathtaking. Obviously Pogacar as the strongest GT rider in the world is not there, but you still have arguably 11 of the 15 best GC riders at the start.

It should also be considered that there is still a lot of racing left. Bernal might find his form by the tough third week, Roglic might suffer a bit by then, Mas might improve. Despite the disappointing performances by Landa, Carapaz, Bernal, Carthy this Vuelta can still deliver.
 
Mas being this strong at the end of week 1 is more the wildcard than anything else because of his mostly having Carlos Sastre'd, Steven Kruijswijked or Ryder Hesjedaled his way to success thus far in his still-developing career, getting better as the race goes on and therefore normally spending most of the first half of the race managing losses and jockeying for position to progress from as his form improves. Here him being in such an advantageous position and riding so well at this point in the race could be ominous for the opposition.

As for the field, of course this isn't a weak field. But you can sometimes get fields that look a lot stronger on paper than they turn out to be, and this will likely turn out to be one of them, depending on how the overall picture looks at the end. A race where underperforming elite names fill out the lower end of the top 10 is likely to be more fondly remembered than if they DNF or drop out of the top 10 and that gets filled with one-and-done contenders, secondary riders and so on. Remember, in 2011 Igor Antón came in as a favourite, having crashed out of the lead the previous year, Joaquím Rodríguez, Vincenzo Nibali and Michele Scarponi were all there but underperformed, and Klöden and Zubeldia were also starting for RadioShack. Lots of people who would later go on to be reasonably good GC riders like Talansky, Martin, Poels, Majka, Kruijswijk and Fränk were there too, but if you look at the top 10 you say it's a real weak field. Remember we've already lost Valverde and Carthy, two strong riders indeed and who would have been targeting the event. Landa is Antóning his chance to lead, Carapaz is running out of gas after a very busy season which is obviously already a very enviable one regardless, he can be forgiven a washout of a Vuelta. Of course it's a shame we don't get the Dauphiné version of Padun or a non-crashed, non-delayed Romain Bardet, but there's always people who underperform expectations for a variety of reasons, illness, injury, crashes mid-race, tactical errors that lead to a change in focus, over-training or poor form management, it happens. I mean, hell, you could look at the top 10 of this year's Tour and say that it was a letdown of a race because a lot of the biggest pre-race names weren't achieving to their level, with Rogla crashing out, Ineos' much-vaunted manifold leadership being derailed very early leaving them with all their eggs in the Carapaz basket, ISN having a bunch of riders with GT performances but none competitive there, and established names like Quintana, Nibali and Supermán being derailed and soldiering on long after their race had fallen apart. But nevertheless, it wasn't a poor startlist, and neither is this one.
 
That’s the whole point. They made it a 2 on 1 race because Superman still can’t be let go on a raid without Roglic having to chase him, while Mas has looked strong enough to counter every attack he makes except being able to outsprint him.

They basically exposed or eliminated Bernal and Carapaz- no one is going to work to bring him back after losing 9 minutes today, and Bernal is now an outsider. Now if Lopez attacks KMs out, Roglic still has to mark him, while he hasn’t been able to drop Mas.

Today the strategy after losing Valverde was for Superman to mark every move by Yates and Carapaz, while Mas was to mark Roglic and Bernal. It worked. Yates and Bernal are now on the back foot, Carapaz and Kuss are out of contention for the win.

Now there is Roglic still as the favorite, but Enric Mas is on his level, with MAL as the most dangerous outsider.
Ya but how funny would it be to see Rog watching Mas waiting for Mas to close down MAL because Rog knows he will take like 2' on MAL in the final TT
 
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I agree with the opinion that Roglic was on the limit today. If he could, he would have dropped Mas - if not sooner, he would have gone for 10-20 sec advantage from 1km out. There’s a rest day tomorrow and no real mountain stage for quite some time so what’s the risk? It‘s not like he will burn out in the final 500 m and give minute to Mas if he fails... on the other hand, he knows very well from last year‘s Vuelta that every second counts so it makes a lot of sense for him to solidify his lead.

That being said - this is not as dramatic as it sounds. He was still far from getting dropped in any case...

The same logic can be applied to Mas. If he hadn't been on his limit he would have attacked Roglic but he never did it. I think both were more or less equally strong yesterday.
 
Well, Mas looked pretty good yesterday and I hope that he can battle with Roglic up to the end of the vuelta.

But if you want to venture a preview for the form of the riders in week 3, one also have to consider that Mas has been the only rider out of the top 10 right now, who also rode the whole 3 weeks of the tour for GC. In the past riders who rode the tour for GC, normally did not get better the longer the Vuelta went on.
 
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I mean if people think Roglic could have dropped Mas but then decided "nah" then I have a bridge to sell them. They were very evenly matched today.

The problem for Roglic is he's so ridiculously explosive he can match any attack so easily it makes people think he can destroy them with his eyes closed. In reality he can get the gap and then he doesn't know if he can sustain it. It's a bit like Rodriguez, except Roglic is never in a position that he has to attack the other guy cause bonifications, muritos and TTs always put him ahead of other guys. Pogacar is the obvious exception to this.

Allthough Roglic hasn't shown it often, but at this years Tour of Basque (I'm sorry, but I can't recall the offcial name) Roglic sustained a very long range attach.
Still Roglic rarely drops everyone from far out so I don't think he can that often.
 
@Eclipse has been mighty quiet today.

Was at the football but I'm glad you missed me?

Looks like it was a pretty decisive day. I'll be very happy if Mas makes this a fight, but suspect that with Roglic not having ridden the full tour and Mas having done so there's little chance the former will fade more than the latter.

GC done and dusted and the hat trick in the bag for Rogla.