Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2022, stage 16: Sanlúcar de Barrameda - Tomares, 189.4k

[VayaVayaVaya]

Great work Volderke, but i didn't read it because:

1/ We know he had a flat, it is acknowledged in the stage report and verified by a UCI commissaire.

2/ From his Strava file, we can see he was actually going 4s faster than Fred Wright who finished with Roglic's group, which seems highly unlikely to be doing uphill on a flat tire. And since we know he had a flat tire (see #1), it is safe to assume the point where he punctured is where he suddenly lost speed on his Strava segment, which is roughly 140 meters before he stopped. Being well within 3k from the finish. Even in case people still doubt the validity of the UCI report, there would be no logical reason for him to fake a puncture considering he was going faster than someone from the front group, unless he would have been distanced before that, which doesn't match up with the timeline as explained in the next point.

3/ As a result the only possible way Remco should not get the same time as the peloton, is in case he were dropped by at least 4s from the peloton, before he punctured. But again, looking at his Strava file this seems highly unlikely. Furthermore, there is a fan video that shows him stopping roughly 50s after Roglic passes by, which would put him very close to Roglic at the moment he actually punctured, so impossible for him to have been dropped from the peloton.

4/ This also means it is highly unlikely Roglic attacked because he saw Evenepoel had a puncture.

It's amazing how some people are able to write, without being able to read.

Brave self-criticism. I applaud you.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Brave self-criticism. I applaud you.

Unwilling is not the same as unable. And to be fair, i did read parts of it or i wouldn't have known what he said in the different bullet points.

 

[ooo]

 

[kingjr]

where are these places ?

Wherever you find some of the more devoted fans of Wout van Aert.

 

[DNP-Old]

where are these places ?

HLN comment section probably. Comedy gold mine.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Well he also took a stroll to the finish so maybe? JK. But I think they should change the rule to be s.t. as long as it looks like you’re actually trying to kick it home.

That does not require a change in the rule. In the shoddy, but official, translation, it states

Is considered as an incident, any event independent from the physical capacity of the rider (fall, mechanical problem, puncture) and his will of remaining with the riders in whose company he was riding at the moment of the incident.

Which suggests that if the rider does not try to keep with the group, he can't claim a sympathetic consideration of inescapable time loss.

But as so many times before, the UCI have not even attempted to apply the rules literally in the past, and therefore any attempt to do so now will result in cries of inconsistency and unfairness.

 

[Extinction]

Thanks for the video. This was the point of contact:

It is most unfortunate when someone has been so blessed in the brawn department but so hindered in the brains one. It's like he left his intelligence at the roadside and wittingly went headlong into disaster. Poor chap.

 

[Koxx]

What will you say now, who was in front and who was coming from behind? (at 8;11)

[youtube]

]View: https://youtu.be/crx-f-HDcWY?t=492[youtube/]

 

[Extinction]

Roglic was ahead, but drifting back, as momentum and his previous efforts determined. At the moment of contact, however, Roglic was no longer ahead and touched Wright trying to surge forward. Wright, for his part, was along the barriers and did not alter his line. This is a no brainer, Roglic's front wheel touched Wright's rear wheel and it is always the fault of the former in such cases.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for the two incidents on this stage.

I am glad that Roglič has spoken on the subject. I feel that video material available confirms what Roglič said. That is Wright was coming from behind and touched Rogličes handlebars. I don't see in which reality this could be Rogličes fault. Crash was due to Wright being too aggressive and not backing off. When there was not enough space available to pass. He didn't even used the elbows as a buffer. He just pushed through regardless of the consequences. Such things happen but still no need to defend such behavior.

As for Evenepoel and the puncture. I don't believe the puncture happened inside 3 km. If you watch the videos on this subject. He started trailing far behind around 7 kilometers to go. Hence he abused the 3 km rule a bit. By getting a puncture, riding into the 3km area and then changing the bike. If the rules allow that. Then OK.

 

[SHAD0W93]

As for the two incidents on this stage.

I am glad that Roglič has spoken on the subject. I feel that video material available confirms what Roglič said. That is Wright was coming from behind and touched Rogličes handlebars. I don't see in which reality this could be Rogličes fault. Crash was due to Wright being too aggressive and not backing off. When there was not enough space available to pass. He didn't even used the elbows as a buffer. He just pushed through regardless of the consequences. Such things happen but still no need to defend such behavior.

As for Evenepoel and the puncture. I don't believe the puncture happened inside 3 km. If you watch the videos on this subject. He started trailing far behind around 7 kilometers to go. Hence he abused the 3 km rule a bit. By getting a puncture, riding into the 3km area and then changing the bike. If the rules allow that. Then OK.

Yeah, let’s ignore the evidence that has been stated and shown more from the video of Roglic leaving his line, entering Wright’s, and crashing into his elbow.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah, let’s ignore the evidence that has been stated and shown more from the video of Roglic leaving his line, entering Wright’s, and crashing into his elbow.

Cyclists don't have eyes at the back of their head. Hence it's the responsibility of the cyclist behind. To act accordingly to the situation. Wright had two options.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Cyclists don't have eyes at the back of their head. Hence it's the responsibility of the cyclist behind. To act accordingly to the situation. Wright had two options.

Roglic does have peripheral vision though and they were riding alongside each other with Wright passing Roglic before Roglic left his line.

Wright had three options; continue sprinting as he was because Roglic is in the wrong and maintain the wheel he was already on, brake, be driven into the barrier because of Roglic.

Roglic is the one who swung from one side of the road to the other. Roglic is the one who deviated from his line he set when he and Wright were siding side by side. Roglic is the one who crashed into Wright.

Is Roglic allowed to be upset, yes. Has he seen the whole video, probably not but who knows. Could he have not seen Wright alongside him and passing him, most likely yes because he had been working hard. Roglic could not known Wright was in the group. Could Roglic have not left one wheel and his line to try and get on another, yes.

Roglic had many opportunities not to cause his own crash by riding into a rider that was alongside himself and was starting to ride past him, without touching him. If not, Roglic and Wright’s elbow wouldn’t have been in the position it was when contact was made shortly before Roglic unfortunately crashed.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

I just posted a longer answer in Rogličes thread. In regards to this thread. Bottom line i agree with Rogličes claim that a rider came from behind and rode the handlebars out of his hands. Video material support that. And although the rider from behind didn't deviate from his line. That in my opinion doesn't come down to saying it was Rogličes fault. The rider behind had two options and chose the lesser one.

It's like when a car crashes in you from behind. And then you would somehow get blamed. And after speaking about not agreeing with that publicly. You would get attacked by an internet mob. On how it's your fault and how dare you speak against that.

In the end it's the pro peloton and not the mafia. Speak your mind about is as much as you want. Especially in regards to rider safety.

The none existing one.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93

I just posted a longer answer in Rogličes thread. In regards to this thread. Bottom line i agree with Rogličes claim that a rider came from behind and rode the handlebars out of his hands. Video material support that. And although the rider from behind didn't deviate from his line. That in my opinion doesn't come down to saying it was Rogličes fault. The rider behind had two options and chose the lesser one.

It's like when a car crashes in you from behind. And then you would somehow get blamed. And after speaking about not agreeing with that publicly. You would get attacked by an internet mob. On how it's your fault and how dare you speak against that.

In the end it's the pro peloton and not the mafia. Speak your mind about is as much as you want. Especially in regards to rider safety.

The none existing one.

That’s the thing, the video doesn’t show that. It shows Roglic crashing into Wright’s elbow after Wright started passing Roglic. If Wright had barged into and hit Roglic’s elbow like you had he claim, on the second video I posted in Roglic’s thread, Roglic’s elbow would have been in front of Wright’s with Wright hitting him. It doesn’t. It shows Roglic’s elbow behind Wright’s. Meaning Roglic hit Wright. The third and final slow mo video then confirms that. They rode alongside of each other, Wright was passing Roglic and started to be ahead without contacting Roglic at all, Roglic deviated from his line and crashed into Wright’s elbow with his own right elbow and handlebar, thus causing the crash. From Roglic’s viewpoint if he didn’t know Wright was there he would very well think Wright barged past him.

But all 3 videos put together show that isn’t the case. Like I said in Roglic’s thread, this is like the NFL AFC championship game Patriots vs Chiefs when the Chiefs punted the ball and it was originally believed Edelman touched the punt making it a live ball. There was 3 different camera angles all showing that he didn’t touch the ball though that he could have. But all 3 angles together show that Edelman never touched the ball, despite if you just have one or two looking like he did. All three together showed he didn’t. Just like we now have three angles of this crash; front, side, and rear and all show Roglic leaving his line and crashing into Wright who was in front of him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

I am sure that people have already made up their minds and will defend it indefinitely. From my perspective and after watching all the videos i agree with what Roglič said. And that is a rider did came from behind and rode the handlebars out of his hands. This did happen. Hence Roglič can't be at 100% fault. And this is what he was accused of. Before speaking his mind.

 

[Extinction]

Cyclists don't have eyes at the back of their head. Hence it's the responsibility of the cyclist behind. To act accordingly to the situation. Wright had two options.

No need for eyes on the back of your head, just a glance to the side with the actual ones in the front is all Rog needed to see he lost ground to a rider coming on his right along the barriers moving straight (he had nowhere else to go in any case) to take the right course of action (fade back onto Wright's wheel or else veer out of the way). Instead he chose the only thing not to do; namely, kick hard again towards the right and bam! He caused himself to go down when a touch occurred. For at the moment of contact his front wheel was already behind Wright's who was passing (with every right to follow the wheel of the guy in front of him - again he kept his line), and anytime one's front wheel touches a passing rider's bike he goes down and is to blame for his own error in judgment.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93

I am sure that people have already made up their minds and will defend it indefinitely. From my perspective and after watching all the videos i agree with what Roglič said. And that is a rider did came from behind and rode the handlebars out of his hands. This did happen. Hence Roglič can't be at 100% fault. And this is what he was accused of. Before speaking his mind.

Everyone is allowed their opinion on what happened and for other things. Sometimes the facts don’t support those opinions and they’re wrong and they won’t hear any other side. Just like the facts here show that Roglic and your opinion is wrong.