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Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2022, stage 17: Aracena - Monasterio de Tentudía, 162.3k

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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Devil's Elbow said:
Because it isn't the most interesting stage, I'd like to draw some attention to the performances of the wildcard teams so far. I think it's a strong contender for the weakest collective performance in the history of the current system, with Euskaltel mounting a challenge for the single worst team to contest a modern GT. None of these teams have made the top 6 of any stage so far!

Stage top-10s:
Burgos - 3
Euskaltel - 0 (!)
Kern Pharma - 2

Best stage result:
Burgos - 7th (Langellotti on stage 5, Ezquerra on stage 13)
Euskaltel - 11th (Canal on stage 2)
Kern Pharma - 10th (Adria on stage 5, Berrade on stage 13)

Best-placed rider on GC:
Burgos - 22nd (Cabedo)
Euskaltel - 35th (Bizkarra)
Kern Pharma - 24th (Parra)

Highest position in a minor classification:
Burgos - 19th (Okamika, points)
Euskaltel - 22nd (Bou, KOM)
Kern Pharma - 6th (Parra) if we count youth classification, but 57th (Garcia Pierna, points) if we don't with not a single KOM point scored all race

And for the statistics that reflect slightly less poorly on these teams:
Team classification (out of 23)
Burgos - 12th
Euskaltel - 14th
Kern Pharma - 15th

Days in the lead of any classification:
Burgos - 3 (Langellotti, KOM)
Euskaltel - 1 (Bou, KOM)
Kern Pharma: 0

Days in the breakaway (out of 14 - must be ahead of the peloton for at least one third of the stage to qualify):
Burgos - 9 (2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 11, 12, 13, 16)
Euskaltel - 9 (3, 4, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16)
Kern Pharma - 5 (2, 3, 5, 11, 14)

Days there wouldn't have been a break without the wildcard teams participating: 2

Combativity awards won (out of 14):
Burgos - 3 (Bol, stages 2 and 11; Diaz, stage 9)
Euskaltel - 2 (Bou, stage 13; Mate, stage 16)
Kern Pharma - 1 (Miquel, stage 3)

IMO, this is a great sign that it's time for additional requirements to the wildcard system. Teams that are lower than the sum of WT and PCT teams (34), should not be eligible. Currently Kern Pharma is 41st, Burgos is 61st and Euskaltel is 63rd. For context, the the highest-placed continental team is in 25th, and 12 of the 13 other PCTs are ahead of them. The 13th is Novo Nordisk, so literally every eligible team that doesn't consist solely of diabetics would add more to the race (in theory).

Also, Caja Rural are in 31st, which shows that even for teams from home nations, being at the mercy of the organiser isn't necessarily preferable to some sort of merit system.
Click to expand...
That's a sad, historical reference for Euskatel and Caja Rural. They always had someone that surprised everyone.
 
C

CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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Due to the outcome of stage 16. Likely other teams will test the water. Trying to eliminate Roglič. Likely the first stage of this Vuelta edition on where Remco will feel comfortable. Trying to win it. Beyond TT. For the first time we might see Mas ordering Movistar to do something.

It can go both ways. That is Roglič to lose time or even abandon the race. This is more likely scenario. Or to backfire and for Roglič to gain time. Now obviously if this happens then we will have to say a thing or two about that tomorrow.
 
Izzyeviel

Izzyeviel

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Devil's Elbow said:
Because it isn't the most interesting stage, I'd like to draw some attention to the performances of the wildcard teams so far. I think it's a strong contender for the weakest collective performance in the history of the current system, with Euskaltel mounting a challenge for the single worst team to contest a modern GT. None of these teams have made the top 6 of any stage so far!

Stage top-10s:
Burgos - 3
Euskaltel - 0 (!)
Kern Pharma - 2

Best stage result:
Burgos - 7th (Langellotti on stage 5, Ezquerra on stage 13)
Euskaltel - 11th (Canal on stage 2)
Kern Pharma - 10th (Adria on stage 5, Berrade on stage 13)

Best-placed rider on GC:
Burgos - 22nd (Cabedo)
Euskaltel - 35th (Bizkarra)
Kern Pharma - 24th (Parra)

Highest position in a minor classification:
Burgos - 19th (Okamika, points)
Euskaltel - 22nd (Bou, KOM)
Kern Pharma - 6th (Parra) if we count youth classification, but 57th (Garcia Pierna, points) if we don't with not a single KOM point scored all race

And for the statistics that reflect slightly less poorly on these teams:
Team classification (out of 23)
Burgos - 12th
Euskaltel - 14th
Kern Pharma - 15th

Days in the lead of any classification:
Burgos - 3 (Langellotti, KOM)
Euskaltel - 1 (Bou, KOM)
Kern Pharma: 0

Days in the breakaway (out of 14 - must be ahead of the peloton for at least one third of the stage to qualify):
Burgos - 9 (2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 11, 12, 13, 16)
Euskaltel - 9 (3, 4, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16)
Kern Pharma - 5 (2, 3, 5, 11, 14)

Days there wouldn't have been a break without the wildcard teams participating: 2

Combativity awards won (out of 14):
Burgos - 3 (Bol, stages 2 and 11; Diaz, stage 9)
Euskaltel - 2 (Bou, stage 13; Mate, stage 16)
Kern Pharma - 1 (Miquel, stage 3)

IMO, this is a great sign that it's time for additional requirements to the wildcard system. Teams that are lower than the sum of WT and PCT teams (34), should not be eligible. Currently Kern Pharma is 41st, Burgos is 61st and Euskaltel is 63rd. For context, the the highest-placed continental team is in 25th, and 12 of the 13 other PCTs are ahead of them. The 13th is Novo Nordisk, so literally every eligible team that doesn't consist solely of diabetics would add more to the race (in theory).

Also, Caja Rural are in 31st, which shows that even for teams from home nations, being at the mercy of the organiser isn't necessarily preferable to some sort of merit system.
Click to expand...

& then there's Lotto who are objectively worse.

2 5ths
77th in GC
last in the team GC
26th in points, 3 Kom points between the squad, and i'm guessing their budget is greater Burgos/Euskaltel/Kern combined
 
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Davesta

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wheresmybrakes said:
The stomp will rise again today, you lot think he's done for, no chance, couple of cuts and bruises won't stop him.

Well, someone has to give him hope. C'mon Roggers, don't give up.
Click to expand...

I agree - obvious Roglic stage win today. JV will keep the break in check to keep the bonus seconds alive. Roglic will take off and with the bonus seconds will eat another 20 seconds out of Remco.

Here’s hoping, anyway…
 
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Krzysztof_O

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wheresmybrakes said:
The stomp will rise again today, you lot think he's done for, no chance, couple of cuts and bruises won't stop him.

Well, someone has to give him hope. C'mon Roggers, don't give up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when Remco looked what happened at the finish line he was like "Ehhh...he's still alive". Primoz will show how much alive he's by making Remco look like an amateur today. And even Lefevere spilling nails on the road won't help this time.
 
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Boes

Boes

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MTV said:
I think we saw it all in 16 (commentary from ES).
There was a race with the plan and all went well for second placed guy - BUT
someone punctured (1.time in 2 weeks) just in 3 km and there is no team member to give a bike. In a flat stage. Real misfortune. Poor Remco. But then - waiting for the car, in ease,... Why not? It is allowed. 3 km rule. No time lost. Allowed. Kill yourself upfront if you want, I have your time ( or near).
Lesson learned - marginal gains is how to make the rules work for you.

Another someone instinctively reacts at the second placed GS guy as a threat for his 4!!! place. Someone he knows is going for GC and not for his 4th place.
Someone he should be thankful to be in position to fight for that 4th place, because he was leading them to the finish,... C'mon Fred (he said later: "I don't know what happened, it was not intended,..., I hope he is ok, but I was 4th, good race for me" - may you come 4th a lot and your heart be well, Fred. Or you are just "simple" - it is easy to not know what is 4th in a stage comparing to 5th in a stage and win a GC).
Second one from the same team, probably coincidence. Or they never debated the first time ( do not push little guys, outsprint them after).
All in all if this was 'normal pushing in the bunch" we would see a lot more guys pushed and in a hospital.
Ok, one thing is not clear to me about Roglič - why go near to sprint guys, just stay in your lane, get to finish in the same time,... Or is there something we don't know about DS's voices. Maybe they wanted one more attack for bonuses, because Remco played them...
I'm sad. And a bit angry.
What's the point of everybody stoping to see how you are after the race (also Remco) - to wish you well or to see if you're finally dead?
Click to expand...

I imagine you're a big Roglic fanboy?
 
DNP-Old

DNP-Old

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This throws the race in a complete different dimension. It's just Remco against Mas now. The mere presence of Roglic could have given Mas some wiggle room, as we saw with Pogacar. It could have caused doubts with Remco, because he couldn't shadow them both at all times. The others are too far away to have that ability.

Furthermore, Ayuso now has his so desired podium spot, whereas Superman is half a minute away from it. UAE might suddenly become an ally for QS in the event of a Superman attack.
 
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DNP-Old

DNP-Old

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Devil's Elbow said:
We just can't have nice things this race and Roglic himself can't have nice things this season. Also not sure if Evenepoel is all that happy with this, he has this in the bag now barring a collapse of his own making but at the cost of a little asterisk given that Roglic had a shot at turning this around.
Click to expand...
Asterisks don't exist.
 
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