Vuelta a Espana 2011 Stage 6: Úbeda - Córdoba 196,8 km

[cineteq]

GC

3 NIBALI, Vincenzo LIQ
4 RODRIGUEZ, Joaquin KAT + 7
5 FUGLSANG, Jakob LEO + 9
6 KESSIAKOFF, Fredrik AST + 25
7 MONFORT, Maxime LEO + 28
8 VAN DEN BROECK, Jurgen OLO + 33
10 BRUSEGHIN, Marzio MOV + 36
12 NIEVE, Mikel EUS + 41
13 SCARPONI, Michele LAM + 41
14 ZUBELDIA, Haimar RSH + 44
15 MOLLEMA, Bauke RAB + 45
17 BRAJKOVIC, Janez RSH + 57
18 COBO, Juan José GEO + 1:05
20 WIGGINS, Bradley SKY + 1:10
21 MACHADO, Tiago RSH + 1:27
22 MARTIN, Daniel GRM + 1:34
23 ROCHE, Nicolas ALM + 1:37
24 SASTRE, Carlos GEO + 1:37
26 SÖRENSEN, Chris SBS + 1:59
27 MONCOUTIE, David COF + 2:06
28 KRUIJSWIJK, Steven RAB + 2:18
29 MENCHOV, Denis GEO + 2:25
34 ANTON, Igor EUS + 2:44

 

[max_powers]

Agnoli didn't screw up, it was the team's lack of communication. C'mon ask a domestique to make a split sec. decision like that?

This is correct, Agnoli was cruising until he saw Lastras, sped up to race him, then Sagan flashed thru, by then it was too late to let Nibs thru.

 

[canyonball]

This is correct, Agnoli was cruising until he saw Lastras, sped up to race him, then Sagan flashed thru, by then it was too late to let Nibs thru.

And why would Agnoli race Lastras if Sagan was already on it for the stage win? (And as I remmember it Sagan was already ahead of Agnoli, when Lastras passed him, but I could be wrong here, I'll give you that).

Maybe there was miscommunication beetween Agnoli and Nibali, though one could argue how much can two riders communicate in a sprint. But when it comes to the team the strategy was pretty clear to me. Launch Nibali so he could get the 20 sec bonus and at the same time get Sagan behind Lastras so he could outsprint him if Nibali failed (which was more than likely). The best of both worlds(playing for bonus and stage win). Worst case scenario, Nibali would get 8 seconds. Agnoli is to blame, IMO. He only had to Maybe it was a reflex, maybe an honest mistake, maybe one of those "oh, snap" moments. It doesn't change what happened.

Tomorrow's another day and like moose said, I'm sure everything will be ok beetween the two of them. Agnoli has proven to be a loyal rider and hard worker before.

 

[roundabout]

Can't find a better image, but this comes about the closest to what Liquigas did today in recent times

 

[Mellow Velo]

The difference is that at the Tour the level is a few levels higher than in the Vuelta.

How do you work that one out?......................no, on second thoughts, forget I asked.

 

[LaFleur]

Did the grupetto miss the timelimit or something? Still haven't seen Taaramae and he was going to travel with the grupetto today...

Nvm the grupetto just appeared, Taarama 21 minutes down in there

 

[cineteq]

Maybe there was miscommunication beetween Agnoli and Nibali, though one could argue how much can two riders communicate in a sprint. But when it comes to the team the strategy was pretty clear to me. Launch Nibali so he could get the 20 sec bonus and at the same time get Sagan behind Lastras so he could outsprint him if Nibali failed (which was more than likely). The best of both worlds(playing for bonus and stage win). Worst case scenario, Nibali would get 8 seconds. Agnoli is to blame, IMO.

I think the team was acting as if Lastras wasn't there...and Agnoli ended up boxing Nibali in. Sagan was clearly out of the way, ready to concede the stage to Nibali, and reacted to Lastras attack. In a perfect world, Agnoli would have led out Nibali to get the win and 20 sec. bonus. In the end, they should celebrate what they did. Nibali got 17 sec. on the main GC guys and Sagan got the stage.

 

[Descender]

Did the grupetto miss the timelimit or something? Still haven't seen Taaramae and he was going to travel with the grupetto today...

Nvm the grupetto just appeared, Taarama 21 minutes down in there

Weren´t you the one that lost a bet against me about Kittel not getting a stage podium place?

 

[Fatclimber]

Nibali doing his own version of Di Luca's 'EH GASPA? CHE VAI?!?' from the Giro TTT a few years ago...

I was having flashbacks of the Vino leadout for Zabel for an intermediate sprint in the Tour a few years ago, Zabel barely got around him.



Agnoli (and Sagan too!) will be praying Nibs doesn't miss out on the top step of the podium by more than a handful of seconds. What are the chances Sagan got reprimanded for winning a stage?

Yes, what Agnoli did was instinctive, but that's what separates the on-your-feet fast thinkers from your average everyday bloke. This is what they do for a living remember. Really, what is going through the mind of a domestique in the final sprint in a group with his teams strongest sprinter and the defending gc champ? Sprinting for third? Dude messed up bigtime.

 

[hfer07]

I think the team was acting as if Lastras wasn't there...and Agnoli ended up boxing Nibali in. Sagan was clearly out of the way, ready to concede the stage to Nibali, and reacted to Lastras attack. In a perfect world, Agnoli would have led out Nibali to get the win and 20 sec. bonus. In the end, they should celebrate what they did. Nibali got 17 sec. on the main GC guys and Sagan got the stage.

"In the real world" Nibali-being the GC rider-should have gotten at least the minimum time bonus-so he's entitled to be angry-not only the fact that they were outnumbering Lastras, but they already have an Sprinter to match him -so TBH Sagan's victory is secundary when mistakes like those can compromise the overall title

 

[LaFleur]

Weren´t you the one that lost a bet against me about Kittel not getting a stage podium place?

Yes, but I don't know who I made the bet with. I asked for an avatar in the Vuelta thread but got no response

 

[Tank Engine]

Yes, but if they only had Nibs sprint for it, the winner would be either him or Lastras. He gets 2nd place time bonus in the worst scenario.

By having Sagan mark Lastras, the ensure they get the stage win for the team, but the worst scenario (if Agnoli hadn't messed up) was 3rd place bonus.

Would a lesser change of a stage win be worth the extra bonus seconds for the leader from 3rd to 2nd (again, assuming Agnoli hadn't messed up).

The thing is that Sagan went for the win only when it was pretty clear that the chances of Shark winning were zero. The question that required a quick answer was really: lose a certain stage win or get 4seconds for Nibs. Sagan made the right decision.

I should take back the comment "big fail", as Liquigas were awesome. I guess Agnoli just instinctively reacted to Lastras going past him.

 

[Descender]

Yes, but I don't know who I made the bet with. I asked for an avatar in the Vuelta thread but got no response

With me! Just google Marcel Kittel and use any picture.

 

[LaFleur]

With me! Just google Marcel Kittel and use any picture.

There, happy? I'm not Find me a better if you can, had to edit it to make the size and luckily doesn't show much of Kittel

 

[Parrulo]

ok who is teaching the leakyboys how to descend? really is there any1 on that squad not named basso that can't descent like a falcon?

 

[cineteq]

"In the real world" Nibali-being the GC rider should have gotten at least the minimum time bonus-so he's entitled to be angry-not only the fact that they were outnumbering Lastras, but they already have an Sprinter to match him -so TBH Sagan's victory is secundary when mistakes like those can compromise the overall title

If they weren't really interested in the stage win, they should have made it simple: gift the victory to Lastras and have Nibali get 2nd for 12 sec bonus.

They needed to define what was the ultimate goal as they were approaching the finish.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I missed it dammit!

 

[hrotha]

If they weren't really interested in the stage win, they should have made it simple: gift the victory to Lastras and have Nibali get 2nd for 12 sec bonus.

They needed to define what was the ultimate goal as they were approaching the finish.

Again, it looked to me like it was perfectly clear and Agnolli still screwed up. Look for my previous reply to you for an explanation

 

[jens_attacks]

incredible how nibali proves that i'm wrong every grand tour lol .amazing what they did today,right in the history books.too bad that they screwed it up in the final but still epic stage.
i think little by little i become a lo squalo dello stretto fan.grazie liquigas!

 

[cineteq]

i think little by little i become a lo squalo dello stretto fan.grazie liquigas!

ditto bambino!

 

[VeloMaster]

incredible how nibali proves that i'm wrong every grand tour lol .amazing what they did today,right in the history books.too bad that they screwed it up in the final but still epic stage.
i think little by little i become a lo squalo dello stretto fan.grazie liquigas!

Yes, hard not to admire the guy and his teammates on a day like this. Lastras foiled the fairy tale outcome, but I think this was a very serious advance for Nibali's GC chances. Nice, too, to see the break with defensive riding, which often characterizes GTs these days.

 

[Jux1893]

Not perfect but still.....

I don't believe there was anyone predicting that Nibali would be going to win seconds in today's stage, so it was a great job by Liquigas, specially since tomorrow it will be a snooze fest for GC.

It wasn't perfect, since Nibali didn't won the stage, but it was more his fault than anyone else.

 

[LaFleur]

I don't believe there was anyone predicting that Nibali would be going to win seconds in today's stage, so it was a great job by Liquigas, specially since tomorrow it will be a snooze fest for GC.

It wasn't perfect, since Nibali didn't won the stage, but it was more his fault than anyone else.

There were quite a few ones earlier in this thread that said that Nibali could attack on the descent...

 

[maltiv]

I think Nibali has almost wrapped up the GC already, or at least he is looking very solid. He can afford to lose a lot of time to Rodriguez in the mountains and still overcome him in the TT. Also someone like Wiggins is already so far behind that he cannot possibly overtake Nibali in the GC, since he will get max 2 minutes on Nibali in the TT (right now that would put Wiggins only 1 minute ahead, which Nibali will take back on Angliru easily).

 

[Jux1893]

There were quite a few ones earlier in this thread that said that Nibali could attack on the descent...

I stand corrected.

I must rephrase it to: I was surprised with that attack, and I probably wasn't the only one.