Wagendorpgate [Rabobank and Humanplasma]

[Zam_Olyas]

The team docter from that period already left, Geert Leinders. He works for Team Sky now

I find this interesting.

 

[Havetts]

Please, these stories are distorted enough as it is, due to Cyclingnews just putting them through Google translate (which, certainly with sensitive subjects like this, is ridiculous IMO)

He says that these infusions contained no products from the doping list. This isn't some kind of doping confession from Boogerd, that would have been actual news.

I did not want to quote the whole article, but you are right. But that part struck me as odd, as a transfusion would mean it would be out and back in, instead of an injection?


One thing I wonder about is, who does Matschinger imply besides Boogerd, Weening or Posthuma?

 

[RHRH19861986]

Every second time now, in the days a GT departs, things like that (Rabo case) are made public.

Fuentes before Tour 2006, Jaksche before Tour 2007, Vansevenant before Tour 2011, now Rabo for Giro 2012.

I support that, the truth has to be said. That´s the way cycling goes, and that´s only one part of cycling, amongst tech, nutrition, training, and so on.

However, I don´t like the different treatment. Does anyone speak about the Cancellara/CSC case in 2006, when THG (!!) was found the day after Roubaix? Does anyone speak of Lance/USPS any more?

Guys like Sinkewitz, Jaksche, Moises Duenas, Fertonani, Moreni, Redondo Ramos, are all kicked out. Hope at least few of those guys will return, like e.g. Bosisio did. These guys are part of cycling, and have the right to do their job, just like Boonen has (no one speaks of his 2008/2009 cocaine any more).

Money is the reason why stories like that with Rabo now are told, though I totally trust that they are true. Money made Voet, d´Hont, Jaksche, speak.
Let them speak, the soul of cycling won´t die anyways; exception was Germany, where they absolutely killed it from 2006 to 2010.

 

[thehog]

Every second time now, in the days a GT departs, things like that (Rabo case) are made public.

Fuentes before Tour 2006, Jaksche before Tour 2007, Vansevenant before Tour 2011, now Rabo for Giro 2012.

I support that, the truth has to be said. That´s the way cycling goes, and that´s only one part of cycling, amongst tech, nutrition, training, and so on.

However, I don´t like the different treatment. Does anyone speak about the Cancellara/CSC case in 2006, when THG (!!) was found the day after Roubaix? Does anyone speak of Lance/USPS any more?

Guys like Sinkewitz, Jaksche, Moises Duenas, Fertonani, Moreni, Redondo Ramos, are all kicked out. Hope at least few of those guys will return, like e.g. Bosisio did. These guys are part of cycling, and have the right to do their job, just like Boonen has (no one speaks of his 2008/2009 cocaine any more).

Money is the reason why stories like that with Rabo now are told, though I totally trust that they are true. Money made Voet, d´Hont, Jaksche, speak.
Let them speak, the soul of cycling won´t die anyways; exception was Germany, where they absolutely killed it from 2006 to 2010.

Jaksche made money from speaking? You're kidding me.

Smart guy. Made good with his bike racing salary and was from a wealthy family.

He got paid zilch for speaking out. He was just bored of it all - the lying that is.

 

[Bala Verde]

Every second time now, in the days a GT departs, things like that (Rabo case) are made public.

Fuentes before Tour 2006, Jaksche before Tour 2007, Vansevenant before Tour 2011, now Rabo for Giro 2012.

I support that, the truth has to be said. That´s the way cycling goes, and that´s only one part of cycling, amongst tech, nutrition, training, and so on.

However, I don´t like the different treatment. Does anyone speak about the Cancellara/CSC case in 2006, when THG (!!) was found the day after Roubaix? Does anyone speak of Lance/USPS any more?

Guys like Sinkewitz, Jaksche, Moises Duenas, Fertonani, Moreni, Redondo Ramos, are all kicked out. Hope at least few of those guys will return, like e.g. Bosisio did. These guys are part of cycling, and have the right to do their job, just like Boonen has (no one speaks of his 2008/2009 cocaine any more).

Money is the reason why stories like that with Rabo now are told, though I totally trust that they are true. Money made Voet, d´Hont, Jaksche, speak.
Let them speak, the soul of cycling won´t die anyways; exception was Germany, where they absolutely killed it from 2006 to 2010.

Here is another one. Jans Koerts.

Als iedereen doping neemt, dan doe je gewoon mee'

"when everyone uses doping, you'll join them" about his experience with doping and when he made the decision to (finally) do it, just like everyone else.

 

[RHRH19861986]

Here is another one. Jans Koerts.

Als iedereen doping neemt, dan doe je gewoon mee'

"when everyone uses doping, you'll join them" about his experience with doping and when he made the decision to (finally) do it, just like everyone else.

Oh, yes, I forgot... And now I remember Gaumont, for example...

@ Thehog: Yes, Jaksche probably didn´t get much, and had enough money. But he is absolutely not a person who did it for honourable reasons, he is no nice person at all...

 

[hrotha]

Oh, yes, I forgot... And now I remember Gaumont, for example...

@ Thehog: Yes, Jaksche probably didn´t get much, and had enough money. But he is absolutely not a person who did it for honourable reasons, he is no nice person at all...

Why is he not a nice person? Not that it matters, though.

And why do you assume he didn't do it for honourable reasons? Reading what he said he always came across to me as doing it because why not, he was done with cycling and people wanted to know.

But whatever. Manzano spoke purely out of spite, but I'm still glad he did it and I respect him for that.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

But whatever. Manzano spoke purely out of spite, but I'm still glad he did it and I respect him for that.

Funny people those cyclists. Manzano almost died but still stayed with his team and even went on to ride the Vuelta and didn't speak up before Kelme played a trick on him. Teammates dying in the early nineties, 2003 - 2004, nobody talks. Rasmussen, the thread is about Rabobank, coming from relatively nowhere to a serious Tour contender in four years at the age of 33 and still his teammates don't speak. Off course you don't speak when you are doing actually the same things.

 

[RHRH19861986]

Why is he not a nice person? Not that it matters, though.

And why do you assume he didn't do it for honourable reasons? Reading what he said he always came across to me as doing it because why not, he was done with cycling and people wanted to know.

But whatever. Manzano spoke purely out of spite, but I'm still glad he did it and I respect him for that.

I got this impression of Jaksche mainly in the years before 2006. He was arrogant, which he actually still is.

His reason to first deny everything from May 2006 till June 2007, then telling everything, is in my opinion that he thought he would be part of a new cycling era after this difficult times cycling was in thanks to the Fuentes case. He thought things would change, not only in Germany, but worldwide.
So he doped from 1998 till 2006 to be a hero, then changed with the wind we had at this time.

He´s intelligent, no doubt about that, but not the nice, healing person he is often considered today.

Btw, he nowadays changed nationality, is now citizen of Austria, has finished studying and works for a small company as salesman near Kitzbühel, little bit like the job Martin Reimer does (Reimer in Cottbus).

 

[DirtyWorks]

Cyclocross?

What are the chances thisis ongoing on the cyclocross squad? I held out some hope that doping wasn't going on given the tremendous consistency in placing at both Men's and Women's events.

Katie Compton was associated with Rabo for 2011/12. If there's charging in the Women's 'cross program, then it sure didn't help her last 'cross season...

My dutch is limited to Google's bad translations.

 

[Cloxxki]

What are the chances thisis ongoing on the cyclocross squad? I held out some hope that doping wasn't going on given the tremendous consistency in placing at both Men's and Women's events.

Katie Compton was associated with Rabo for 2011/12. If there's charging in the Women's 'cross program, then it sure didn't help her last 'cross season...

My dutch is limited to Google's bad translations.

Say the words. Cross is big in Belgium.
Hope can be great though. Have a complimentary armband to support your wishes.

Cross is funny. As it is in athletics. No fixed distances, no sustained climbing, no measurements possible. You just need to be there on the course to get an idea. Winners just seem to have a good day, others all bad. Or all good, and few bad.

I did a few high profile crosses in my day. Hoogstraten Superprestige, GP Sven Nys Balen, St. Michielsgestel Superprestige, some Dutch Elite champs, you get the idea. Packfill is overestimating my contributions. I was each time blown away by the speed these guys made. It was like riding full-out sprints, all the time. Wicked recovery within seconds, it seemed. From starting line to 60kph on soft tubulars in 42-12, just weird.
I could keep myself unlapped solo off the back in short lap elite crits for over an hour, but in cross, different story.

One could theorize cross riders perform less on the road due to more strigent testing (Lars Boom?). Or select modest French road pro's all at once mixing it up in their off-season with the Belgians, which always surprises me.

Anyway, on Rabo.
What era did Boogerd take those needles? After a certain date even empty needles or with your own blood should get you banned.
Boogerd always came across as a typical The Hague little lying criminal. I am from the Rotterdam area and thus prejudice. His old style omerta lies are almost funny.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Anyway, on Rabo.
What era did Boogerd take those needles? After a certain date even empty needles or with your own blood should get you banned.
Boogerd always came across as a typical The Hague little lying criminal. I am from the Rotterdam area and thus prejudice. His old style omerta lies are almost funny.

Couldn' t be when the Rabo's crushed everyone in Paris - Nice, that was on pasta and steak. Kohl and Rasmussen joined Rabo in 2003, it could be a coincidence off course. When Menchov arrived in 2005 they had quite a nice 'renaissance'. You know Denis, great in Italian and Spanish GT' s, somehow not so much showing in a certain GT in France.

 

[theyoungest]

Couldn' t be when the Rabo's crushed everyone in Paris - Nice, that was on pasta and steak. Kohl and Rasmussen joined Rabo in 2003, it could be a coincidence off course. When Menchov arrived in 2005 they had quite a nice 'renaissance'. You know Denis, great in Italian and Spanish GT' s, somehow not so much showing in a certain GT in France.

Yeah, 2nd, 3d and 5th in the Tour, utter crap

What are the chances thisis ongoing on the cyclocross squad? I held out some hope that doping wasn't going on given the tremendous consistency in placing at both Men's and Women's events.

Katie Compton was associated with Rabo for 2011/12. If there's charging in the Women's 'cross program, then it sure didn't help her last 'cross season...

My dutch is limited to Google's bad translations.

The cyclocross team hasn't even been mentioned, none of the riders currently on it, or on it for the past years, have ever been associated with doping. And the entire story dates from before 2007, when there was a regime change over at Rabobank, if you like.

None of the Cyclingnews editors reporting on the story speaking Dutch doesn't help, of course.