Wagendorpgate [Rabobank and Humanplasma]

[Zam_Olyas]

oh no the man love for wiggins again.

 

[The Hitch]

Doping @ Sky would be hardly surprising isn't it?

Kick out all the people that flourished in the epo period is the best solution, but impossible to do.

I hope Rabobank sticks to cycling, but good god the cyclists make it hard for the sponsors to stay around. I guess they want to get rid of all the sponsors.

Umm nothing to do with the cyclists. everything to do with those who decided that cycling was going to be the scapegoat goat while sports where sponsors put billions rather than a couple mil are left totally 'clean'

 

[hrotha]

Umm nothing to do with the cyclists. everything to do with those who decided that cycling was going to be the scapegoat goat while sports where sponsors put billions rather than a couple mil are left totally 'clean'

At this point, it has everything to do with the cyclists though. The public opinion on cycling is what it is, and doping is not so much of a PR scandal for other sports, to the point of putting them in jeopardy.

As long as the perception of cycling among the general public doesn't change, doping *is* more irresponsible (PR-wise) in cycling than in other sports.

 

[Kwibus]

Umm nothing to do with the cyclists. everything to do with those who decided that cycling was going to be the scapegoat goat while sports where sponsors put billions rather than a couple mil are left totally 'clean'

Don't get me wrong. The problem is within every sport.
And yes I know cycling is the scapegoat... unfortunately.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wiel...reactie?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Hell, stop the presses, what a scoop. Doping at Rabobank from 1996 onwards!

That's a big surprise when you look at the 1996 squad:

* Breukink [PDM - Once]
* Bruyneel [Once and of course later on the magician at USPS]
* Sorensen [Arisostea - Carrera]

Noteworthy, teammate Edwig van Hooijdonck, not a bad cobblestone rider, suddenly quit early in the season.
http://www.sportgeschiedenis.nl/2008/03/28/edwig-van-hooydonck-kon-winnen-zonder-doping.aspx

 

[Kwibus]

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wiel...reactie?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Yep Rabobank is not impressed.

They just said all of this was allready investigated in 2007-2008 and that they allready made some changes back then so that they could force a good zero tolerance policy.

Rabobank got rid of de Rooij, their teamdoctor and a few more.
Also Boogerd wasn't allowed to do work for Rabobank when he quit. Wether it has to do with possible use of doping I don't know. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Boogerd wasn't really the only one doing it

It's unfortunate to see former teamdoctor of Rabo at Sky though. Quite hilarious really.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's about Rabobank doping, not Sky. I find it funny how Dekker_DT has been whining all the time about QS doping program, but we all know Rabobank isn't any different.

With the difference being that the anonymous Quick Step rider who talked about organized team doping in QS back in 2007 is most likely dead(I think it was Dimi de Fauw).

 

[hrotha]

It's about Rabobank doping, not Sky. I find it funny how Dekker_DT has been whining all the time about QS doping program, but we all know Rabobank isn't any different.

With the difference being that the anonymous Quick Step rider who talked about organized team doping in QS back in 2007 is most likely dead.

OPQS is about 2012, this is pre-2008, and things change fast in the world of doping.

 

[ChrisE]

Hah, finally proof! It is a good day.

Will they be forfeiting their 99 and 2001 Amstel Gold victories so the 2nd place rider can be declared the rightful winner?

 

[El Pistolero]

OPQS is about 2012, this is pre-2008, and things change fast in the world of doping.

No they don't

Unless you're talking about what products and in what quantity it's being used.

 

[El Pistolero]

Hah, finally proof! It is a good day.

Will they be forfeiting their 99 and 2001 Amstel Gold victories so the 2nd place rider can be declared the rightful winner?

Nop, for the same reason the '99 Tour winner gets to keep his victory despite 6 positive tests for EPO

 

[hrotha]

No they don't

Unless you're talking about what products and in what quantity it's being used.

I'm talking about who's on the cutting edge at any given time. At any rate, I fail to see what relevance this has to OPQS.

 

[El Pistolero]

Merely pointing out the hypocrisy of someone

Who says Rabobank continental team pre-2008 was any different by the way? Or are we having faith again in the next clean generation. Where have I heard that one before?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Hah, finally proof! It is a good day.

Will they be forfeiting their 99 and 2001 Amstel Gold victories so the 2nd place rider can be declared the rightful winner?

Boogerd and Dekker only started juicing at the end of their carreer. In fact, Boogerd never was on the juice, inspected over 400 times, never a positive. Dekker also never took, his hematacrit of 52% was proven to be a too tight armband.

Top 20 of the Amstel 1999, take your pick on who was 'clean'. I put my money on Zabel, behind mister clean of course.
http://www.wielren.com/php/koers.php?koersid=208&jaar=3&vertaalid=


Boogerds' sudden reappearing climbing skills in 2007 were the work of hounest training, everyone knows that, come on, don't be so cynical.

 

[goggalor]

The team docter from that period already left, Geert Leinders. He works for Team Sky now

That's interesting. Maybe teamskyfans could make a Leinders info page, like the one he made for Ibarguren.

 

[ChrisE]

Boogerd and Dekker only started juicing at the end of their carreer. In fact, Boogerd never was on the juice, inspected over 400 times, never a positive. Dekker also never took, his hematacrit of 52% was proven to be a too tight armband.

Top 20 of the Amstel 1999, take your pick on who was 'clean'. I put my money on Zabel, behind mister clean of course.
http://www.wielren.com/php/koers.php?koersid=208&jaar=3&vertaalid=


Boogerds' sudden reappearing climbing skills in 2007 were the work of hounest training, everyone knows that, come on, don't be so cynical.

I was joking, just to toss out a jab. Pistolero got it and it's all in good fun. I'm assuming you are joking as well in your first paragraph...sometimes I forget to put in the sarcasm emoticon as well.

I don't play "out of the top 20 who is clean" game because I didn't live with those cyclists and I am not intimate about their training "methods". Who am I to say who is clean? That humility from a poster is unusual in the clinic. Usually it comes down to the nice guys being clean and the prix being dirty, right?

I tend to believe all of the top cyclists were on something because the proof is overwhelming of PED use in cycling (I won't play the who is clean game in other sports either), all the way back beyond Anquetil with his famous quote. This as opposed to the obvious lack of proof the majority are clean.

Zabel....yes Mr. "I only took it once" while dominating in the EPO era.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I was joking,

Really, couldn't tell

At the Rabo team we withness a certain pattern in performance, must all be coincidal of course.

 

[Havetts]

Boogerd liet wel weten af en toe ‘een infuusje’ gehad te hebben, maar dat zoiets in die tijd heel normaal was en niet verboden.

Boogerd: “Natuurlijk heb ik wel eens spuiten gekregen in de Tour de France, maar niet met spullen erin die verboden waren.”

Against nusport.. lol

Boogerd let know that he now and then received "a little infuse", but that was 'normal' in that time and not prohibited.

http://www.nusport.nl/wielrennen/2803371/ik-voel-me-niet-aangesproken.html

 

[classicomano]

Merely pointing out the hypocrisy of someone

Who says Rabobank continental team pre-2008 was any different by the way? Or are we having faith again in the next clean generation. Where have I heard that one before?

Johnny Testosteronny! He was a junior for Rabobank in 2001 when that was going on.

 

[sniper]

There is now a zero-tolerance regime in Rabo.
They don't see any reason to do an investigation into the allegations.
Rabo already did an external (whatever that means) investigation, substituted a few people so that they could install the new zero-tolerance code as of 2008.

http://www.nusport.nl/wielrennen/2803293/rabobank-geen-onderzoek.html

big

Shows once more that sponsors are major complices. They know the average cycling fan doesn't give a **** about doping allegations. It's heroism that counts.

 

[thehog]

Against nusport.. lol

Boogerd let know that he now and then received "a little infuse", but that was 'normal' in that time and not prohibited.

http://www.nusport.nl/wielrennen/2803371/ik-voel-me-niet-aangesproken.html

He tried to shut Landis up as well...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boogerd-denies-landis-doping-allegations

Oh dear....

"I think at that time half the peloton rode around with bruises,” Boogerd said on Radio 538. “That was because of the doping controls at the time. Nine out of ten times when they stuck with the needle, you got a bruise. When you walk into a hospital you can have exactly the same thing happen.”

"He did not say that I've used drugs, but he insinuates it,” Boogerd said. "He knows what he did and therefore can only assume that I did the same."

 

[Bala Verde]

The team docter from that period already left, Geert Leinders. He works for Team Sky now

Makes this article slightly more interesting to read

Rabo-arts Geert Leinders stapt op

(July 2009)

Een aantal voorvallen in de afgelopen anderhalf jaar heeft ertoe geleid dat Leinders zich niet meer happy voelt in de ploeg waar hij vanaf de oprichting de eerste ploegarts was. Intern was bekend dat Leinders al enkele maanden nadacht over dit besluit dat hij weloverwogen heeft genomen.

Leinders was voordat hij bij Rabobank begon ploegarts bij Histor (onder leiding van Peter Post) en Lotto. Binnen de Rabobankformatie groeide hij uit tot een icoon. Zo was hij de man die onder anderen Michael Boogerd en Erik Dekker met trainingsadviezen begeleidde. Naast zijn medische kwaliteiten was ook zijn statistische en tactische kennis van de wielersport groot.

[...]

 

[mr. tibbs]

I just came in here to post this quote from the CN story:

Boogerd denied any involvement. “I deny that I have been there,” he said.

I can't stop laughing at it. The only way it would be better is if it read:

Boogerd denied any involvement. “I deny any involvement,” he said.

 

[theyoungest]

Against nusport.. lol

Boogerd let know that he now and then received "a little infuse", but that was 'normal' in that time and not prohibited.

http://www.nusport.nl/wielrennen/2803371/ik-voel-me-niet-aangesproken.html

Please, these stories are distorted enough as it is, due to Cyclingnews just putting them through Google translate (which, certainly with sensitive subjects like this, is ridiculous IMO)

He says that these infusions contained no products from the doping list. This isn't some kind of doping confession from Boogerd, that would have been actual news.