Warning for Lance fans

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Do you want to compare with Merckx, Hinault, Coppi, Anquetil, Lemond, Fignon, Poulidor, Zootemelk, Van Impe, ...

or Ullrich (2nd in 1996 in his first year)

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

TT bikes and the regular bikes took a step up, becoming more aero and faster down hill. That would bump up the average speed a tick.

You also have to look at the courses. There seems to have been slightly less climbs over the last decade.

 

[bianchigirl]

And Armstrong didn't win a TdF stage in his first season as a pro either - his first pro season, with Motorola, was 1992 when he managed a 2nd in Zurich. So let's at least fact check before we make our claims shall we?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Nope, not Riis.
He did not race in the TdF in his first year as a Pro.
And he did not Win a stage in the TdF until his seventh year as a pro.

I will give you a hint
At least one French Rider has done it.

Sorry poupou, but Lance's TdF as a rookie rider was Awesome.

I reserve the use of the term "Awesome" for things other than the 1993 TdF of one Lance Armstrong.

His win at Worlds was "Awesome". DNF'ing the Tour, even with a stage win, really does not qualify or compare, IMHO.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

And Armstrong didn't win a TdF stage in his first season as a pro either - his first pro season, with Motorola, was 1992 when he managed a 2nd in Zurich. So let's at least fact check before we make our claims shall we?

No, LA-Fanboys only pick the spots they like. They are blind to reality. May they all came to a Lance-PR-Camp and got some brainwash like in the movie "Men in Black".

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Merckx did not ride his first tour until his fourth year as a pro.
Same with Hinault I think..Fignon in his second year....LeMond third year?

I think the only rider on that list that raced the TdF in their first year as a Pro was doper Joop. Did not win a stage like Lance did, however.

Maybe the key to a long TdF career, like Joop and Lance, is to race the TdF your first year?

Lance started riding the TdF EARLIER than most of the other Great Riders.

Maybe that is another reason for his SEVEN TdF wins?
Trained Harder. Weighed his Food. Raced the TdF as a neo-pro.

IIRC, Lemond came third in his first attempt (1984), though it was his 4th year pro? Obviously, two year later he won, 1986.

 

[Race Radio]

The writing was on the wall for the future TdF champion.
Eddy B knew it.

Funny how Eddy B changed his tune when Wonderboy defected to Cortisone Charmichel. By the time the 1992 Olympics came around Eddy was saying that Lance shouldn't even be named to the team as there were plenty of other guys who were faster.

 

[Escarabajo]

More people got with the programme.

So how did clean Lance beat the dopers late in the 90's?

 

[Race Radio]

So how did clean Lance beat the dopers late in the 90's?

High cadence pedaling?

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

So how did clean Lance beat the dopers late in the 90's?

Do you really think he was clean?

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

So how did clean Lance beat the dopers late in the 90's?

Clearly he trained, said his prayers, and ate his vitamins.

Oops, sorry. Wrong catch phrase.

 

[Laszlo]

Seriously, why it is that some LA fans have such a hard time coming to terms with the fact that LA was a doper? Why would it be any more difficult to accept that LA was doping than it is to accept that Pantani or Riis or Ullrich or Basso or Vino etc etc etc were doping?

Seriously, as a LA is clean proponent, that is a very good question. Honestly, I think that because in these "heroes" we see ourselves, that vicarious statement is truer- and in there is a reflection of our own character- fair competition, personal integrity- all those things. It is like those silhouette pictures, some people just can't see the 2 faces, or the lampshade; or they can, but the image is not easy to maintain. Likewise, I find it hard to believe that LA doped- this is not an intellectual conclusion-because some of the circumstantial evidence is pretty hard to dismiss- still the circumstances do not force me to the conclusion that LA doped. So, in conclusion, not everyone sees the same thing when we see the same picture. And for some the victory, or the failure and humiliation is felt more personally too.

 

[Polish]

or Ullrich (2nd in 1996 in his first year)

1996 was Jan's third year as a pro.
Godefroot thought it was too early for Jan to race the 1995 TdF let alone his first year 1994.

Again, Lance raced in his first year, although he was pulled out after stage 10.

 

[Polish]

Funny how Eddy B changed his tune when Wonderboy defected to Cortisone Charmichel. By the time the 1992 Olympics came around Eddy was saying that Lance shouldn't even be named to the team as there were plenty of other guys who were faster.

Maybe Eddy B should have stuck with his earlier prediction that Lance would one day win the TdF. That prediction turned out correct.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

High cadence pedaling?

... and of course he trained harder

 

[Laszlo]

How much of an effect does doping have ? Perhaps the doper feels he doesn't need to train as hard, because he has an edge ? Maybe he succeeds in fooling himself in the process.

The psychocological need to dope expresses an inheirent weakness- to rail against the pain required to win. These people are not winners; because all of us know there is a point we come to and we either choose to continue or give up and that threshold either gets closer or further away ( "I've been in worse" mentality).

In LA's case I may be wrong, but he seems to be a pretty headstrong, mentally tough character. I think the retirement years have softened that mental fortitude, which is why I don't expect so much from him nowadays.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

1996 was Jan's third year as a pro.
Godefroot thought it was too early for Jan to race the 1995 TdF let alone his first year 1994.

Again, Lance raced in his first year, although he was pulled out after stage 10.

on the "truth" page of your god is written Epo-Lance started his pro career in 1992.

Anyway, it is obvious to everybody that it is harder to finish 2nd in GC at the TdF in the 1st year at age of 22 than to win a flat stage where the GC-Contenders don´t give a damn who is winning a meaningless stage. There might be 100 riders in the history who won a TdF-Stage in the 1st year as a pro. May you can look for us trou your stats?

P.S.: Ullrich started in 1995 not 1994. Just wanted to let you know...

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

The psychocological need to dope expresses an inheirent weakness- to rail against the pain required to win. These people are not winners; because all of us know there is a point we come to and we either choose to continue or give up and that threshold either gets closer or further away ( "I've been in worse" mentality).

A bit simplistic. It still hurts when you dope but you can sustain it for longer and recover quicker between efforts. That's what Millar said. It's not that you don't have the mental will - you simply could not produce the same sustained effort without the dope. But the effort you put in is the same - you just get a better outcome.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

High cadence pedaling?

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Don't knock the high cadence. You have to spin to win, bro.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't knock the high cadence. You have to spin to win, bro.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

on the "truth" page of your god is written Epo-Lance started his pro career in 1992.

Anyway, it is obvious to everybody that it is harder to finish 2nd in GC at the TdF in the 1st year at age of 22 than to win a flat stage where the GC-Contenders don´t give a damn who is winning a meaningless stage. There might be 100 riders in the history who won a TdF-Stage in the 1st year as a pro. May you can look for us trou your stats?

P.S.: Ullrich started in 1995 not 1994. Just wanted to let you know...

Not a fast finisher to really speak of in the Verdun break either.

As for Jan, didn't he medal at 1994 world tt champs?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Not a fast finisher to really speak of in the Verdun break either.

As for Jan, didn't he medal at 1994 world tt champs?

Yes he did. That time Lance was still looking how to make up for loosing 6 mins. in TT´s and 28 mins. in the mountains.

 

[poupou]

Merckx did not ride his first tour until his fourth year as a pro.
Same with Hinault I think..Fignon in his second year....LeMond third year?

I think the only rider on that list that raced the TdF in their first year as a Pro was doper Joop. Did not win a stage like Lance did, however.

Maybe the key to a long TdF career, like Joop and Lance, is to race the TdF your first year?

Lance started riding the TdF EARLIER than most of the other Great Riders.

But in 1995, Lance was at the same age as most of the great riders like Lemond Fignon, Merckx, Hinault,....

and despite his experience of 2 TDF, he failed to win or to challenge the win on a major stage.... and still was never a contender!

So what is your point? Did Lance was strong as Hinault or Merckx or Lemond in their beginning on mountain and ITT?

 

[Jukebox]

Come on Pou-pou.

Look at who Lance was racing against then,Pantani, Virenque,Indurain etc.

You do realize that he beat Virenque and Pantani post cancer, right? Kinda kills that argument...