Was Froome beaten by Contador "Fair and Square"?

[Dazed and Confused]

In the end it was an easy win for Contador. Strong competition on paper, but weak on the road.

You can only beat the riders in the race, which Contador did fair and square.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I would agree with you if not for two things:

1. The poster that rhubroma replied to used the word drafting and not wheelsucking for a reason. Riding on someone's wheel is very much drafting because it does decrease force of wind resistance. Thats the very definition so drafting = riding someone's wheel. Now, drafting is not necessary a wheelsucking. Wheelsucking is always a drafting, but drafting is not always a wheelsucking (well, depends by whose definition and which rider is being judged). So that part of the post was pretty much a monologue.

2. This Vuelta didn't exactly show that AC is the stronger climber. the difference was mainly made by the TT, I think all of those MTF's amount to around 30 seconds so that isnt much and could be just from amount of energy conserved by drafting (which was possible thanks to TT).
So Contador did ride a better race overall, but he won it in TT, not in MTFs.

Anyway, the point I agree on is that this thread is pointless because the win is fair, so if that was the only purpose of it then it might as well be closed.

Contador gained, without bonus seconds, 22+1+7+15+16 seconds on Froome, which sums up to 1.01 in the mountain stages. Contador lost 12+7 seconds on two occasions, Castrove and Camperona. How he managed losing those 12 seconds on Castrove is still a mystery to me considering the superiority he displayed on La Farrapona and Ancares.
Assuming those seconds was not an indicator of real strength, they shouldn't be subtracted from the time gained, 1.01. In other words Contador gained 1.01-7=54 seconds in the mountains, while he gained 42 seconds if you also count his tactical errors on stage 18 as a strength display. The 54 seconds, that displays the pure strength difference in the mountains, exceeds the time gained in the ITT by 1 second.
Bearing in mind that Contador did NOT have to gain time on Froome in the mountains after his great ITT, and the fact that he still did so, whether it be 42 or 54 seconds, suggest that he was just the better climber.

 

[laurel1969]

The drafting idea, in this case, is a dog that doesn't hunt. Unless I'm mistaken they had a tailwind on steep slopes, so aero benefits would be minimal. Psychological on the other hand....

Indeed. It wasn't tactical genius on Contadors part, it was the obvious thing to do. Energy saving through wind resistance is irrelevant, but it is easier to be paced up a hill by somebody else. If that somebody else is your rival then it puts them under psychological stress. They are the one having to look back, they are the one havingvto stay focused for an attack.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Contador was the better climber (slightly) and overall rider in this race. Doesn't mean that TDF 2015 will be the same. I agree that Alberto's injury in this years Tour was worse than Chris', and that it came later also made it logically harder for him to win the Vuelta. But what about overall conditioning? We don't know how much Froome's crash at the Dauphne knocked him around. Maybe he had very little form at the Tour because of that and would have been playing catch up anyway, and was still a little at the Vuelta. He had a bad crash earlier in the season too right? So I think that on that basis that Contador's overall fitness may have had the edge on Froome this Vuelta, and like others have said, hopefully everyone has an injury free crack at the Tour next year.

 

[Savant12]

Over the course of the Vuelta, Contador had better form and consistency than Froome. I don't believe the seriousness of Contador's injury from the Tour since he got back on his bike and still managed to pedal uphill for several Kms. The "I'm too injured to ride the Vuelta" and later "I don't know how well I will ride the Vuelta" was nice PR work by Saxo-Tinkoff to downplay his actual condition. Froome had built up good form for this year but couldn't maintain it through his various crashes which made it hard to keep peaking at the right form.

Froome used the Vuelta for working back into top form while Contador already had it.

Contador rode a great race, not his most exciting victory, and I don't think he found he needed to dig deep to win it. A bit like Nibali at the Tour

I hope both guys are at 100% for the Tour 2015. And I hope the Nibali of this year's Tour can test his level against a top Froome and Contador.

 

[darwin553]

Why is a thread positing whether Contador beat Froome 'fair and square' in the professional road racing forum and not the clinic? For fullness of argument sake

 

[Miburo]

The quintana option is rather funny, he had a chance but winning it?

This isn't like the tour where Contador couldn't prove if he was better than nibali despite putting a few sec on him in the first uphill stage.

In every MTF's contador proved to be better than quintana, in the ITT contador was ahead of quintana.

So how would quintana win it? Long range attack? Yea maybe but how is it clear? I don't get it.

 

[argyllflyer]

Froome seemed much more off the pace going into the race than Contador and showed the most improvement of all riders, reminded me a bit of Rodriguez in the 2013 Tour in that he got better as the weeks went by. However, so much damage was done in the ITT that the race was effectively over unless Froome could suddenly muster his July form - and he couldn't.

Contador proved himself to be the best GC contender almost every time he was asked, though was able to ride much more cagily on the back of the ITT margin gained.

 

[personal]

Despite of tomorrow's 9k farewell ITT, the Vuelta is done.

The question is: Was Froome beaten by Contador fair and square, or else?


please opine

Honestly, I can't really decide between
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
"fair" and "square".

Why is it even a question?

 

[Miburo]

It's funny how some are a little sensitive, like cineteq. This is the man who was sure Contador and froome were gonna get exposed.

He's right about the exposing, it was just him that got exposed.

 

[escheator]

Sure AC proved to be convincingly better at this Vuelta, you don't need to look any further than the final GC list. What can a person believe in if not fine, objective, time measurements?
Everything else makes for the entertaining discussion between the fans, but nothing else.

 

[Futuroscope]

Alberto was stronger in the climbs (overall) and in the TT. Best guy won.

 

[laurel1969]

Alberto was stronger in the climbs (overall) and in the TT. Best guy won.

Froome acknowledged this after yesterday's stage.

 

[UltimateOpportunist]

Not only Alberto beat Froomestrong fair and square, but that kenyan grasshopper will be stripped of his result anyway since he is a major cheat...

 

[MBotero]

Nice poll,got to go with Michelle in this one

 

[rhubroma]

I would agree with you if not for two things:

1. The poster that rhubroma replied to used the word drafting and not wheelsucking for a reason. Riding on someone's wheel is very much drafting because it does decrease force of wind resistance. Thats the very definition so drafting = riding someone's wheel. Now, drafting is not necessary a wheelsucking. Wheelsucking is always a drafting, but drafting is not always a wheelsucking (well, depends by whose definition and which rider is being judged). So that part of the post was pretty much a monologue.

2. This Vuelta didn't exactly show that AC is the stronger climber. the difference was mainly made by the TT, I think all of those MTF's amount to around 30 seconds so that isnt much and could be just from amount of energy conserved by drafting (which was possible thanks to TT).
So Contador did ride a better race overall, but he won it in TT, not in MTFs.

Anyway, the point I agree on is that this thread is pointless because the win is fair, so if that was the only purpose of it then it might as well be closed.

Well how about "marked his man" chap? In the last stages of a stage race there are those disadvantaged and those advantaged, based on GC.

It's called cycling.

As far as drafting on major climbs goes, it isn't wind resistence that gives benefit, but the psychological edge one gets from knowing his rival has no choice but to burry himself if he wants to make up time, because he must drop you, but not you him. As was the case.

In that situation its called privilege of rank, which was of course previously earned on merit and strength. In the final analysis the guy who wins a Grand Tour, has been the average strongest (bar crashes, or other inhibiting events) from the start to the finish and thus you're not allowed to have bad day, or even too moderately off if your rivals are super. That's the beauty of it. No excuses, no hiding.

So you can be brilliant in the third week, but if you previously lost too much time in the first two: you're not the strongest overall. Consitency at ultra-high performance is the only justification necessary.

 

[Escarabajo]

Had to pick the Betancur option. He is better than those two if it wasn't for those doughnuts.

 

[hrotha]

*deleted*

Hey, where's the outrage of the Contador fans due to this Clinic post?

 

[No_Balls]

How can Clinic-related posts be an issue for Contador-fans only? I am somewhat surprised that this have managed to stay for this long. A low, polarizing statement like this is not surprising coming from you though. You are doing a terrible work at the moment, but i am sure you are back to be a bit more subtile once Vuelta (which angers you deeply) is over.

Perhaps it was you who created this account in the first place?

Reported.

 

[ferryman]

Hey, where's the outrage of the Contador fans due to this Clinic post?

Message deleted, let's leave it at that please.

 

[Kwibus]

In my opinion both weren't at their best, but Contador was better than Froome this Vuelta. It's that simple, so regarding that it was fair and square.

 

[Kwibus]

I think this may be the best picture of the day. Says a lot about the effort both Froome and Contador expended.

It was a superb stage.

This is an awesome photo. Love the pain on both faces.
Grand battle between big guns. I hope to enjoy these lads for atleast 2 more years at the highest level. Add Quintana to the mix.. woohoo!

 

[SergeDeM]

Agree with the general sentiment. Of course Alberto won fair and square because he was better.

 

[Red Rick]

Froome said as much during interviews, so I don't know why this thread is here. There's enough threads to troll about Contador already

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Of course Contador won fair and square. On the occasions where Contador followed Froome and sucked his wheel, Contador was in the one position that made that an acceptable and justifiable practice: he was the race leader. Therefore he is entirely within his rights to ride defensively and put himself in the best position to ensure he can't be taken by surprise with an attack. The margin of victory was more than the sum total of Contador's time bonuses and both riders entered the race as team leaders, so it's not comparable to 2011 either.

Froome may have crashed at one point, but that's part of bike racing. Unless one of the Saxo riders actively pushed Froome off his bike, it's just something that happens. And possibly happens more often to Froome because of his shoegazing style. Froome was strong enough that there isn't really a "if only Froome hadn't crashed" kind of narrative to push here, unlike at the Tour with the DNFs or, say, Gesink in 2009.