Was Froome beaten by Contador "Fair and Square"?

[hrotha]

I can't vote, because there's no option for just "Yes" without "Alberto proved to be the better rider". Neither of them was at his best.

 

[Afrank]

Did Froome crash that gave Contador some time on him? No.
Did Froome have a mechanical at any point allowing Contador to take time? No.
Was there anything controversial that lead to Froome losing some time to Contador? No.
Was Contador just overall the better rider? Yes.

Case closed.

 

[Jspear]

Of course he won fair and square. And so did Nibali in this Tour (its not like he put a stick in Contador's wheel or kicked Froome off the bike). What kind of question is this?

Calm down. I didn't ask any questions. I was answering the question asked by the OP.

And if Froome would come from injury and Contador didnt it would still be a fair win.......

I agree. I answered the way I did to make sure Froome fans wouldn't come up with an excuse. (you seem to think I'm a Froome fan....I'm not. AC is da man)

And dont argue that Alberto's injury was worse. Nobody truly knows how long they had to stay off the bike, or how they felt once they got on it in terms of physical health. Those are stupid speculations, more often that not clouded by ones affinity to either rider.

Alberto's injury was worse. Get a grip. It's not stupid speculation....that is a fact. All it shows is that AC's victory is that much better. Do you have a problem with that?

And the last statement is just plain dumb. Not sure what it was based on because when both were healthy this season they were going head to head with minimal gaps so don't know where your opinion comes from.

You missed my point. If AC had come with the same type of injury as Froome he would have done better than Froome had done with his injury. In stating that I was only pointing out that AC won fair and square however you look at it. I was trying to cover any "hypothetical" situations that Froome fans might want to try and come up with for him loosing to AC. The reason he didn't win by a larger margin is NOT because he wasn't "good" enough. It was because after his injury he wasn't able to train right away.

 

[damian13ster]

Calm down. I didn't ask any questions. I was answering the question asked by the OP.

I meant the question asked in this thread, not your question specifically. Sorry for not clarifying

I agree. I answered the way I did to make sure Froome fans wouldn't come up with an excuse. (you seem to think I'm a Froome fan....I'm not. AC is da man)

Actually, your post very much indicated that you are Contador fan, thats where your subjective opinion about severity of injuries comes from.....

Alberto's injury was worse. Get a grip. It's not stupid speculation....that is a fact. All it shows is that AC's victory is that much better. Do you have a problem with that?

It is a fact based on what? It is not known exactly when either of them started training or how they felt physically when back on the bike, so unless you are a doctor and treated both Froome's and Contador's injuries, this is still just a speculation. I have no problem at all with Contador winning, I do have a problem with posters stating their wild assumptions as facts and creating theories off of that.

You missed my point. If AC had come with the same type of injury as Froome he would have done better than Froome had done with his injury. In stating that I was only pointing out that AC won fair and square however you look at it. I was trying to cover any "hypothetical" situations that Froome fans might want to try and come up with for him loosing to AC. The reason he didn't win by a larger margin is NOT because he wasn't "good" enough. It was because after his injury he wasn't able to train right away.

Another assumption that can never be verified. And as you probably saw in my response I did say it was a fair win. Don't believe anyone here is negating that. Most of your post is very 'hypothetical', including the very last sentence. Froome was also not ready to train right away after injury. Nobody but the riders, their doctors and those closest to them know how they felt or how severe the injuries were and how they affected the training. Contador won fair. That's a fact. Rest is purely a speculation and hypothesis that can't be verified. Let's hope that on a first day of TdF next season we can hear 'I'm in the best shape of my life' from both riders and that there are no crashes throughout the tear so we can see who the strongest GT rider is.

 

[purcell]

This is a remarkably stupid "poll"

Contador has won. Period.

 

[Jspear]

It is a fact based on what? It is not known exactly when either of them started training or how they felt physically when back on the bike, so unless you are a doctor and treated both Froome's and Contador's injuries, this is still just a speculation. I have no problem at all with Contador winning, I do have a problem with posters stating their wild assumptions as facts and creating theories off of that.

Nope I ain't their doctors and I don't know when they started training. But I think it is pretty obvious to any unbiased viewer that for cycling - a fractured tibia is worst than a fractured wrist. You can train a lot better with a fractured wrist than you can with a fractured tibia....does that really sound like a statement that only an AC fan can make?

Another assumption that can never be verified. And as you probably saw in my response I did say it was a fair win. Don't believe anyone here is negating that. Most of your post is very 'hypothetical', including the very last sentence. Froome was also not ready to train right away after injury. Nobody but the riders, their doctors and those closest to them know how they felt or how severe the injuries were and how they affected the training. Contador won fair. That's a fact. Rest is purely a speculation and hypothesis that can't be verified. Let's hope that on a first day of TdF next season we can hear 'I'm in the best shape of my life' from both riders and that there are no crashes throughout the tear so we can see who the strongest GT rider is.

Yes, I know some of what I said was speculative. I was throwing out a couple of different scenarios to say "yes AC won fair and square whatever anyone tries to say/however you want to look at it."

 

[cineteq]

Voted Quintana option

But where is the "Neither- Nibali would have won it had he been there"?

 

[Energy Starr]

Voted Quintana option

But where is the "Neither- Nibali would have won it had he been there"?

It wasn't needed because he wouldn't have.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I think this may be the best picture of the day. Says a lot about the effort both Froome and Contador expended.

It was a superb stage.

 

[Hugh Januss]

If I was given the choice of racing 6 weeks after a broken hand or a broken leg I don't think it would take me very long to pick the hand.

 

[Angliru]

Course he did no one know's maybe Froome did get hurt in his crash fact is Alberto had the edge uphill. Before the crash Froome just beat Contador on La Zubia.

Why is that you always premise your backhanded compliments of Contador with historical reference to Froome beating Contador?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Why is that you always premise your backhanded compliments of Contador with historical reference to Froome beating Contador?

Because he is a Froome fan and he's having trouble dealing with this last week.

 

[Angliru]

Where's the clinic option?

You are so, so, so tired. You're like a scratched record with the needle stuck in the grooves, just skipping along.

 

[ferryman]

I won't even vote on this one it's so obvious. The best rider of his generation just beat the great pretender and easily. I just wish it was in France, and it would have been.

 

[rhubroma]

Contador was the stronger rider and is the deserving winner.

What isn't as clear is whether he was the better climber, though, because he drafted so much. Their climbing ability seemed to be very close. Instead, it's the time trial were Contador landed the decisive punch. Quite unexpected!

It's possible that Froome was further off his personal best than Contador was, even if their respective injuries sustained during the Tour would have you expect the opposite.

All questions will be answered at the 2015 Tour. As of now, I have them as equally likely to triumph.

What people don't seem to get here, for which this stupid pole even exists, is that Contador wasn't "drafting so much," but riding the wheel - and rather with sufficient reserves - of the guy who was a) his biggest rival and b) forced in the position to gain time on him in the very last stages of the Vuelta. Froome thus had to take on all the responsibility of setting pace and dropping Contador, which he was not strong enough to do.

Tactically it's furthermore what AC had to do and he clearly had enough horse power to drop his main rival when he needed to. End of story.

What seems to thus be infered here is whether or not Contador, under different circumstances, would have been able to drop Froome going on the attack himself? But this is posed either from envy, or ignorance of cycling. The sheer fact that he didn't have to so late in the race, only confirms who the stronger man was. In fact Froome said so himself after the stage yesterday. So yes, after two wins on mountain top finishes, against zero, and having besides gone on the attack and droped Froome previously uphill in the race, AC was the de facto strongest climber in the race as well and, like Indurain (who was never the strongest climber), owned the TT too. How's that for fair and square?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I think rhubroma's excellent post should serve as a fitting end to this thread.

 

[damian13ster]

Nope I ain't their doctors and I don't know when they started training. But I think it is pretty obvious to any unbiased viewer that for cycling - a fractured tibia is worst than a fractured wrist. You can train a lot better with a fractured wrist than you can with a fractured tibia....does that really sound like a statement that only an AC fan can make?

I am not so sure here. I am sure that you are aware that position on a bike does affect which muscles do majority of the work during pedaling. Now try to achieve optimal position with a broken wrist......

The point is, we don't know. And this statement is equally speculative with the others you made, except for the one saying that Contador won fair, because it is obviously the case.

Yes, I know some of what I said was speculative. I was throwing out a couple of different scenarios to say "yes AC won fair and square whatever anyone tries to say/however you want to look at it."

Well, this was just weird way of putting it. I agree its fair, but it doesn't mean that if both are at 100% then Contador is better. We havent had a chance to verify that yet unfortunately, and the closest we have come is probably first stages of Dauphine, and those don't indicate that Contador's advantage would be even higher than it currently is.

 

[Jspear]

If I was given the choice of racing 6 weeks after a broken hand or a broken leg I don't think it would take me very long to pick the hand.

Bingo.....

 

[yespatterns]

Everyone has an off year. Contie is simply better this year. Relax, enjoy the spectacle and anticipate 2015. No biggie.

 

[damian13ster]

I think rhubroma's excellent post should serve as a fitting end to this thread.

I would agree with you if not for two things:

1. The poster that rhubroma replied to used the word drafting and not wheelsucking for a reason. Riding on someone's wheel is very much drafting because it does decrease force of wind resistance. Thats the very definition so drafting = riding someone's wheel. Now, drafting is not necessary a wheelsucking. Wheelsucking is always a drafting, but drafting is not always a wheelsucking (well, depends by whose definition and which rider is being judged). So that part of the post was pretty much a monologue.

2. This Vuelta didn't exactly show that AC is the stronger climber. the difference was mainly made by the TT, I think all of those MTF's amount to around 30 seconds so that isnt much and could be just from amount of energy conserved by drafting (which was possible thanks to TT).
So Contador did ride a better race overall, but he won it in TT, not in MTFs.

Anyway, the point I agree on is that this thread is pointless because the win is fair, so if that was the only purpose of it then it might as well be closed.

 

[hfer07]

I think the question is being asked because both of the other GT victories of this year are so heavily doubted. I think that he is wondering if maybe people are going to doubt the validity of this win as well....that's just my guess though.

BINGO

10 char

 

[phanatic]

From my understanding of the question, I went with the Betancur option as neither rider seemed to be at his best.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't understand why it would not be fair and square.

 

[laurel1969]

Of course it was a clean win (ha ha) and he didn't just win it in the ITT, he took time bonuses in both MTF wins that put a Greg Lemons style TT win out of reach for Froome.

As for yesterday, if I was Contador I'd have done exactly the same.

 

[yespatterns]

I would agree with you if not for two things:

1. The poster that rhubroma replied to used the word drafting and not wheelsucking for a reason. Riding on someone's wheel is very much drafting because it does decrease force of wind resistance. Thats the very definition so drafting = riding someone's wheel. Now, drafting is not necessary a wheelsucking. Wheelsucking is always a drafting, but drafting is not always a wheelsucking (well, depends by whose definition and which rider is being judged). So that part of the post was pretty much a monologue.

2. This Vuelta didn't exactly show that AC is the stronger climber. the difference was mainly made by the TT, I think all of those MTF's amount to around 30 seconds so that isnt much and could be just from amount of energy conserved by drafting (which was possible thanks to TT).
So Contador did ride a better race overall, but he won it in TT, not in MTFs.

Anyway, the point I agree on is that this thread is pointless because the win is fair, so if that was the only purpose of it then it might as well be closed.

The drafting idea, in this case, is a dog that doesn't hunt. Unless I'm mistaken they had a tailwind on steep slopes, so aero benefits would be minimal. Psychological on the other hand....