We need to talk about Annemiek

Looking through the history of the Clinic and genuinely surprised to see no Van Vleuten thread.

She has totally dominated her last 5 races now, including the WCRR. To make the strides she has made at such an advanced age speaks volumes, and appears to be getting stronger year after year.

Her training loads are monstrous, yet she is fresh enough to totally annihilate entire fields herself, even Spratt and Kennedy are barely needed atm.

As much as I like van Vleuten and appreciate her style of racing I can't escape the feeling that something isn't right.

White's history with del Moral and the Trent Lowe incident doesn't bode well either IMHO, but no idea how much the two of them interact.
 

drc

Sep 2, 2015
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1
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Totally. Today's show at Strade proves it all. Not like it ever was a question (like the Worlds for example). To me this girl is a female equivalent of Lance.
 
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My guess it's more that noone was invested enough to make a thread rather than noone thought something dodgy is going.

I imagine the women's peloton will have have a combination of say 70's men's cycling where domestiques aren't all that good and where the gap in access to doping is gigantic.
 
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Yeah, I'm not big on Clinic stuff but this is interesting. Like when Vos was super-dominant, she did it with her sprint. She won the Giro Rosa by struggling to minimize time losses in the mountain stages. Van Vleuten was a good rider but, now that she's in her late 30's, give her 15 km and she takes out 3 minutes over the entire field over every type of terrain.
 
My guess is basically the same as Red Rick. No one is invested enough in her or possibly women's cycling in general to make a thread specifically for her. Doesn't mean many don't agree that something is dodgy or off about what she's doing currently.

Female version of Lance except with a better personality.
 
Anyone else think her saddle is way too high? Was watching her at Strade and figured she was riding a teammate's bike but no, it had the 1 number on it. Looks 10cm too high.
 
Looking through the history of the Clinic and genuinely surprised to see no Van Vleuten thread.

She has totally dominated her last 5 races now, including the WCRR. To make the strides she has made at such an advanced age speaks volumes, and appears to be getting stronger year after year.

Her training loads are monstrous, yet she is fresh enough to totally annihilate entire fields herself, even Spratt and Kennedy are barely needed atm.

As much as I like van Vleuten and appreciate her style of racing I can't escape the feeling that something isn't right.

White's history with del Moral and the Trent Lowe incident doesn't bode well either IMHO, but no idea how much the two of them interact.
I don't know much about Van Vleuton, but I would venture to guess that The Clinic has become a virtual wasteland for a few reasons.
One, the most vocal critics have either moved along or have been banned from the forum. They seem to have been replaced by some who try to negate suspicions with reasons that would have made the previous group laugh. Everything from "tennis players don't dope to increase endurance" to explaining the meteoric rise of a nobody who has been around forever by suggesting it is because he won a couple challenger tournaments.
Sure, anything is possible.
The main difference being is that those who are long gone knew what it takes to reach the pinnacle of sport. There were a ton of obvious insiders who had fun toying with those who defended Lance with evangelical vigour.
Now it seems that that we've gotten rid of Lance, everything is beloved patriot-dory and everything has returned to an age when doping in sports didn't exist. Oh, wait; there was never an age where doping didn't exist.
Then you have to take into account the exhaustion factor. The vast majority here are aware of the history of doping in sports, and it's not beyond belief to suggest that some people just don't want to talk about it anymore. Fair enough.
But yeah, the insiders have left the building, which only people like me who do not have insider information. I'm just some rando off the street, which makes someone like me easier to pick apart. Again, fair enough.
I would love to have a few beers with the site administrators to get the inside scoop of what happened. What was once a bastion of open discussion about doping in sports has been reduced to a forum where what remains of the insiders tell others they don't know what they're talking about.
I can only assume that you guys were faced with multiple lawsuit threats; otherwise, why have so many forum contributors left the scene?
 
I would say it's more down to there not being any major doping stories for about a decade. Now those doping obsessives are going on about ketones and motors and TUEs. Desperately trying to find an angle. Back in the day there was plenty. Festina, Cofidis, Puerto, Saunier Duval, US Postal. Lots of doping. But now? Nothing. Even the MPCC are struggling to find relevance.

"I will say that people dressing up as giant inhalers is a lot better than people dressing up as giant syringes. It seems a step forward." - Taylor Phinney 2018
 
Holy crap. Yeah I can't read.

I'm also not missing a night's sleep for opening weekend.
See if you watched races you could have validly posted about AVV's 2 win in the 2020 Het race - When she had a mechanical with 60 or 70 kms - Lost a minute and then for some unknown reason, chased the peleton without any support from her team-mates and then put the field away on the Muur.
 
There's also the Skyborg factor. They were getting pretty cut up seeing accusations, yet were happy throwing shade at anyone else. They made a lot of noise.

See the Bike Radar forums for some examples
Thanks for the heads up; I wasn't aware of Bike Radar.
re Skyborg: I could be wrong, but I think Benotti's departure from the scene was mainly a result of pressure put on site admins by Sky.
We shared a few back-and-forth PM's when he was clearly getting squeezed out and I recall him mentioning Sky, but he didn't go into great detail.
But I do recall him saying that he probably won't be seen around these parts in the future.
He is one of many who had interesting things to say who were squeezed out and/or banned.
 
Benotti generally just fabricated his own opinion about what Sky were doing though so clearly violated CNs terms as it was leaving them open to defamation. As time has proven, none of what he claimed has been matched with any evidence from UCI, UKAD, WADA, DCMS & GMC investigations. Even GMC & UKAD have just concluded BC & Sky management were totally unaware of what they're alleging Freeman might have ordered the TGel for. The height of it all is Freeman & BC didn't set up a medical records system in the early days of Sky, MPTS will strike him with licence suspension over and UKAD might charge Freeman for possession of £49 box of testogel without a single rider named in 5 years of investigations. That's some way from the claims of people like Benotti were stating as facts had happened 5 years ago onwards.
 
it's a shame AVV missed her chance to be a major clinic star..

a late bloomer just a little after the clinic hey day....

if her stellar performances at strade etc were not enough on there own she has all the talk..

i train harder/longer than everyone else...i train with the men...i kick out xwatts/kg..when i ride
i aim to win EVERY race

Mark L
 
Benotti generally just fabricated his own opinion about what Sky were doing though so clearly violated CNs terms as it was leaving them open to defamation. As time has proven, none of what he claimed has been matched with any evidence from UCI, UKAD, WADA, DCMS & GMC investigations. Even GMC & UKAD have just concluded BC & Sky management were totally unaware of what they're alleging Freeman might have ordered the TGel for. The height of it all is Freeman & BC didn't set up a medical records system in the early days of Sky, MPTS will strike him with licence suspension over and UKAD might charge Freeman for possession of £49 box of testogel without a single rider named in 5 years of investigations. That's some way from the claims of people like Benotti were stating as facts had happened 5 years ago onwards.
Definitions of the words "interesting" and "fact" are different. I never said Benotti was stating facts. Maybe I'm being too nit-picky, but it grates when a total stranger puts words in my mouth. That said, I can see why you may have interpreted it that way. I can see how one could assume I'm putting Benotti in the same category as others. I'm not.
Obviously everything needs needs to be scrutinized, especially when we're talking about people using fake names on the internet. I mean, that's a given.
It was clear that some claims he was saying were dubious, and I guess that goes a ways to answering my question about potential lawsuits and why the Clinic has become an afterthought. That would not be surprising, but what I find interesting is how long the various claims and accusations went on for. Of course you need to be paying attention to separate the wheat from the chaff, but regardless of the veracity, this place was buzzing.
Don't get me wrong. I loved reading what was being said, and I learned a lot by putting certain pieces together. I'm just curious to know how it all went down. p.s. Edited to include an apology to 42x16ss for hi-jacking the thread.
 
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See if you watched races you could have validly posted about AVV's 2 win in the 2020 Het race - When she had a mechanical with 60 or 70 kms - Lost a minute and then for some unknown reason, chased the peleton without any support from her team-mates and then put the field away on the Muur.
Last years Het Nieuwsblad was part of the inspiration for me to create the thread.
 
Cheers for that, well argued.
Why would I need to argue anything. She's a multiple world champion with medals on the road and track, has won a whole host of stage and one day races and is very possibly the best racer in the women's peloton and has been for a number of years. But yeah, she's riding a bike so poorly set up and she's clueless about it. The very idea is ridiculous and 10 cm?! Go raise your saddle by 10cm and see if you can even pedal your bike.
 
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Feb 27, 2021
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I don't know much about Van Vleuton, but I would venture to guess that The Clinic has become a virtual wasteland for a few reasons.
One, the most vocal critics have either moved along or have been banned from the forum. They seem to have been replaced by some who try to negate suspicions with reasons that would have made the previous group laugh. Everything from "tennis players don't dope to increase endurance" to explaining the meteoric rise of a nobody who has been around forever by suggesting it is because he won a couple challenger tournaments.
Sure, anything is possible.
The main difference being is that those who are long gone knew what it takes to reach the pinnacle of sport. There were a ton of obvious insiders who had fun toying with those who defended Lance with evangelical vigour.
Now it seems that that we've gotten rid of Lance, everything is beloved patriot-dory and everything has returned to an age when doping in sports didn't exist. Oh, wait; there was never an age where doping didn't exist.
Then you have to take into account the exhaustion factor. The vast majority here are aware of the history of doping in sports, and it's not beyond belief to suggest that some people just don't want to talk about it anymore. Fair enough.
But yeah, the insiders have left the building, which only people like me who do not have insider information. I'm just some rando off the street, which makes someone like me easier to pick apart. Again, fair enough.
I would love to have a few beers with the site administrators to get the inside scoop of what happened. What was once a bastion of open discussion about doping in sports has been reduced to a forum where what remains of the insiders tell others they don't know what they're talking about.
I can only assume that you guys were faced with multiple lawsuit threats; otherwise, why have so many forum contributors left the scene?
There are still a bunch of them left...they are insightful posters with great knowledges ( not insiders but very much doubters) but they never or don't scream bloody murders everytime there is a great ride. :D:p

And yeah, about the bot thing. Wild and infuriating times, such a trip. I should include me in the "very much doubters"category but not in the knowledge and insightful part.
 
Definitions of the words "interesting" and "fact" are different. I never said Benotti was stating facts. Maybe I'm being too nit-picky, but it grates when a total stranger puts words in my mouth. That said, I can see why you may have interpreted it that way. I can see how one could assume I'm putting Benotti in the same category as others. I'm not.
Obviously everything needs needs to be scrutinized, especially when we're talking about people using fake names on the internet. I mean, that's a given.
It was clear that some claims he was saying were dubious, and I guess that goes a ways to answering my question about potential lawsuits and why the Clinic has become an afterthought. That would not be surprising, but what I find interesting is how long the various claims and accusations went on for. Of course you need to be paying attention to separate the wheat from the chaff, but regardless of the veracity, this place was buzzing.
Don't get me wrong. I loved reading what was being said, and I learned a lot by putting certain pieces together. I'm just curious to know how it all went down. p.s. Edited to include an apology to 42x16ss for hi-jacking the thread.
I wasn't putting anything in your mouth. He was banned and he made lots of statements as if they were fact about riders and teams without any supporting evidence or even objectivity. New (old) owners took over CN and no doubt needed to clean up the toxicity here as it was simply wild hearsay and trying to prove something with anecdotal stories in the media, many of those made up of hearesy and anecdotal evidence. It was a toxic spiral for those like Benotti. Same happened on Disqus.
 

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