what a few motorbike riders think of TdF'11

[Benotti69]

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272380

Edited

Tour de France 2011
Starts on Saturday.

Team Sky should put ip a challenge and maybe Wiggins for third place.

How many sprint wins for Cavendish?

If nothing else it's worth watching for the scenery.

I think Cav will get the usual amount of wins he's in much better shape this year he looks a lot leaner, he's got a good train to drop him off, and as an option HTC have got matt goss

I would like see wiggins on the podium but he's not an out and out climber a top 10 is achievable maybe top 5

Already a drug problem today in the Belgium papers, a few thousand euros worth, flown in from OZ... To a Flemish rider.....

Tour de France, don't watch it any more...

Still I should really as it has always been a drug sport...

N fact the tour started to be boring when the drugs controls and legislation became tighter... Haven't watched it since the days of Fignon, Lemond, Delgado, Roche... Them were the days

Is Contador still racing under the threat of a ban? I cant see past him for the win, and I have this image of the schlecks making an almighty ****'up of their strategy. Would like to see Wiggins in a top 5 but not sure SKY are strong enough to put him their. Thor for the green Jersey, but Cav for the most wins I reckon.

I have huge admiration for what those guys go through, but can't get excited about it. It basically seems like a race between chemists to me.

feel it's worth watching to get a great travelogue of France. Just sit back, watch and take notes of the great roads...... The French have had great camera footage for a good few years now.

Also to watch these guys hurtle over passes that we, on our bikes, visit. Armstrong went over the Col De La Faucill in the Jura a few years back quicker than I could drive it !

Drugs or no drugs, I still enjoy it. After all, there's plenty of other sportsmen taknig drugs in other sports that are less controlled.

the thread was started yesterday and has only a few posts....but as you can see, there is a perception about the sport that is not positive.

 

[spalco]

Needs log in, and I'm not intersted in doing that. Care to copy a couple comments or something?

 

[roundabout]

those guys/gals seem well enough informed to post here

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

/care .

 

[Benotti69]

some more posts have been added.

I rode for Vendee U Cyclisme (Castorama stable) a few years back....one day the team doctor came in to administer "Vitamin injections......" I refused. Didn't stay long The team manager's knees were fooked from all the cortisone he used to take...

is that about the same time the big money came in with more global TV? cause/effect we build riders up to be heroes, give them wealth to sell products and advertise brands and wonder wonder why it all goes tits up?

No-one stops to think what led them to it and where the real problem lies....

my buddy is an ex world champion sprint cyclist and raced them all in the 80's. one of the reasons he got out was the sport was (and still is) rife with drug taking.

that said, i marvel at their feats of endurance drugs or no drugs.

Look at what Lance has been saying "he's never tested positive" not that he's not done anything unethical.

the game will always be that the rewards favour those who find the gaps in the rules, there is no glory or money in inventing a better drug test, you make money from getting around those rules not making them....

Interesting how many people outside the sport do have an interest but also an insight that is quite illuminating...

 

[Chuffy]

Interesting how many people outside the sport do have an interest but also an insight that is quite illuminating...

They're no more 'outside the sport' than most of the posters on here. They just happen to be posting on a non-cycling forum. Or does being a biker automatically mean that you can't be a fan of cycling?

Really, what is your point?

 

[Benotti69]

They're no more 'outside the sport' than most of the posters on here. They just happen to be posting on a non-cycling forum. Or does being a biker automatically mean that you can't be a fan of cycling?

Really, what is your point?

the point is to show what lots of deniers think about cycling, that the sport's drug problem only upsets those in the clinic, whereas the perception is much wider than the clinic and cycling forums. If you read the CN Professional road racing forum section you would think there is no drug problem in cycling. i was using it to illustrate that people on other forums are as aware the people who post here. you might be amazed how many wouldn't realise that.

most people who use motorised transport do not appreciate cyclists, especially in the anglophone world. I am posting comments from a UK based forum.

The TdF is approaching and i thought it might be relevant. If not ia m sure it will get closed.

 

[Parrulo]

you are not telling me anything i didn't knew. on the family dinner this weekend an uncle of mine started going about how dirty cycling was and funny enough before i even bothered to say anything (was doing something else at the time) my sister jumped on him defending cycling and comparing cycling's anti doping policies with other sports anti doping policies or complete lack of them like in sports like tennis and football.

and yes there is a lot of corruption in cycling but at least still something is being done.

p.s. my uncle knows nothing about cycling btw. only knows what the tour/giro/vuelta/volta are and says only the tour matters. doesn't even realize how important the classics are even tho i have tried to explain it before

 

[just some guy]

Also the fact that your the only person logging it it could be that your only posting the doping related stuff.

Before you go off
I´m just saying - picking facts to back up arguments while forgetting the overall picture happens all the time.

Maybe there all saying drugs drugs drugs maybe they are not

 

[Benotti69]

you are not telling me anything i didn't knew. on the family dinner this weekend an uncle of mine started going about how dirty cycling was and funny enough before i even bothered to say anything (was doing something else at the time) my sister jumped on him defending cycling and comparing cycling's anti doping policies with other sports anti doping policies or complete lack of them like in sports like tennis and football.

and yes there is a lot of corruption in cycling but at least still something is being done.

p.s. my uncle knows nothing about cycling btw. only knows what the tour/giro/vuelta/volta are and says only the tour matters. doesn't even realize how important the classics are even tho i have tried to explain it before

Fine. I'll leave it at that so.

 

[spalco]

the point is to show what lots of deniers think about cycling, that the sport's drug problem only upsets those in the clinic, whereas the perception is much wider than the clinic and cycling forums.

Oh absolutely, no doubt. Whenever professional cycling is mentioned in a newspaper or on any forum I read the first comments are always some unfunny pun about "tour de pharma" or something like that. Cycling has a catastrophic image in the public.

 

[Parrulo]

Fine. I'll leave it at that so.

i didn't say that as a critic to the thread. . . please continue as i am always curious to know other people opinion on cycling. i just said its the general view people have on cycling and told my own personal history with it.

for example most of my friends even the ones that don't like cycling say that they respect cycling because at least it looks like something is being done about it while in other sports they just pretend like nothing is happening.

i guess is a question of education and open mind against pre conceptions(is this the right expression?) like "only cyclists dope"

 

[Granville57]

I run into this type of thing all the time with friends of mine who don't follow, or know anything about, cycling. They are aware of cycling's dope problems because of the media coverage. But they openly criticize cycling for it, while freely admitting that they don't care if it goes on in "their" sports, i.e. baseball and basketball.

I believe this hypocrisy stems from the derisive way in which cycling's problems are reported in the U.S. sports media—more often than not by "reporters" who know damn well that the same thing goes on in the other, more "popular," American sports.

 

[Chuffy]

As far as I can tell, many people who know little or nothing about pro-cycling will happily parrot the 'they're all druggies aren't they' line. In that respect their ignorance nicely matches the cheap cynicism of the Clinic's headbangers.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I run into this type of thing all the time with friends of mine who don't follow, or know anything about, cycling. They are aware of cycling's dope problems because of the media coverage. But they openly criticize cycling for it, while freely admitting that they don't care if it goes on in "their" sports, i.e. baseball and basketball.

I believe this hypocrisy stems from the derisive way in which cycling's problems are reported in the U.S. sports media—more often than not by "reporters" who know damn well that the same thing goes on in the other, more "popular," American sports.

Same kind of experience with football, cricket etc

Remember how everyone denied for years that PEDS would help you in baseball because it was all hand-eye co-ordination?

Trying to explain to someone why Dertie has tested positive but is still riding is just embarrassing.

The normal response is 'are the people in cycling really that stupid to believe him?'

But cycling's bad reputation is hardly undeserved.

 

[andy1234]

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272380

Edited






the thread was started yesterday and has only a few posts....but as you can see, there is a perception about the sport that is not positive.

Its interesting, the comments you chose to focus on.....

The comments are actually very level headed. Either some of these Bikers are cyclists, or some of the general public don't take everything they hear reported, at face value.



"Drugs or no drugs, I still enjoy it. After all, there's plenty of other sportsmen taknig drugs in other sports that are less controlled"

"It is a shame about the drugs but you've got to support it and hope that eventually it becomes drug free."

"if footballers, tennis players and cricketers had to train and race as hard as racing cyclists, ALL these sports would be riddled with drugs and exaggerated media speculation...."

"football and tennis is riddled with drugs. there are **** all tests to catch them."

"they wanted to introduce more testing in tennis and the players refused. I wonder why?"

 

[Granville57]

Remember how everyone denied for years that PEDS would help you in baseball because it was all hand-eye co-ordination?

What was even better was how during the 1998 McGwire/Sosa run-up to break the single-season home run record, there was all sorts of chatter about how maybe there was something different about the way the actual baseballs were made that year.

"Examining the CT images of Mark McGwire's 70th home run ball one can clearly see the synthetic ring around the core -- or 'pill' -- of the baseball," UMS president David Zavagno said. "While Mark McGwire may or may not have used illegal steroids, the evidence shows his ball -- under the governing body of the league -- was juiced."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2719191

LMFAO!!!

But Bob DuPuy, baseball's chief operating officer, said the core of the ball has been unchanged for decades. Rawlings has been the exclusive supplier of baseballs to the major leagues since 1977.

 

[spalco]

I believe this hypocrisy stems from the derisive way in which cycling's problems are reported in the U.S. sports media—more often than not by "reporters" who know damn well that the same thing goes on in the other, more "popular," American sports.

Not sure about that. Reporters aren't any more intelligent or openminded than the average person. All the time when I talk about doping with people who aren't cycling fans I'm baffled about how little they understand how PEDs work with comments like "but in soccer doping isn't effective" or "why would anybody take steroids in an endurance sport?" and I don't think there's any reason to assume the average reporter is better informed.

 

[Markyboyzx6r]

You'll find many bikers are also interested in cycling. Troy Bayliss, Ben Spies and many of the other top riders are fanatical cyclists and many motorcyclists take more than a passing interest in professional cycling. Two wheels better than four. I think there's great affinity between the two activities.

The comments the bikers made were spot-on. There's no point complaining about joe public only seeing the drugs side of cycling when we fans spend half our days disecting every last morsel of doping information published.

Cycling has a massive doping problem. Other sports may also have a doping problem but I'll say it again - cycling has a massive doping problem. You can't blame the public (motorcyclists or otherwise) for picking-up on that. Once cycling has its house in order then we can start to fling the insults at other sports, until then...

Mark (BMW S1000RR, Kawasaki ZX-6R)

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

You'll find many bikers are also interested in cycling. Troy Bayliss, Ben Spies and many of the other top riders are fanatical cyclists and many motorcyclists take more than a passing interest in professional cycling. Two wheels better than four. I think there's great affinity between the two activities.

The comments the bikers made were spot-on. There's no point complaining about joe public only seeing the drugs side of cycling when we fans spend half our days disecting every last morsel of doping information published.

Cycling has a massive doping problem. Other sports may also have a doping problem but I'll say it again - cycling has a massive doping problem. You can't blame the public (motorcyclists or otherwise) for picking-up on that. Once cycling has its house in order then we can start to fling the insults at other sports, until then...

Mark (BMW S1000RR, Kawasaki ZX-6R)

+ several thousand. Well said.

When I read people saying 'oh but other sports have doping too, why is cycling victimised, boo hoo' I am reminded of the comment by George Orwell that nothing short of several tons of dynamite will convince some people which century they are living in.

 

[ergmonkey]

You'll find many bikers are also interested in cycling. Troy Bayliss, Ben Spies and many of the other top riders are fanatical cyclists and many motorcyclists take more than a passing interest in professional cycling. Two wheels better than four. I think there's great affinity between the two activities.

...

Mark (BMW S1000RR, Kawasaki ZX-6R)

I don't doubt it. If I weren't so scared of killing myself during the learning curve stage, I would love to experience my favorite rides (and new ones) on a motorbike. I'd also love to cover that much more ground whenever I'm some place new.

I also have read or watched only a handful of racer profiles for top motorized bike racers (mix of sportbike, motocross, you name it) and I think they all mentioned road cycling as a favorite part of their training.

Finally, despite having a nasty encounter with a car driver on almost every ride I do, I can't remember when--in decades of road cycling--I had a really unpleasant encounter with a motorbike. They never honk aggressively, swerve at me, shout a bunch of obscenities at me just for being there, make dangerous right-hand turns that force me into the curb, etc. The only slightly regrettable encounter was when I was climbing up a canyon and a guy in a full-on racing suit got a speed whobble coming down and looked like he might take me out. Obviously, that was just an accident--and he managed to keep it upright, thankfully.

 

[Granville57]

Not sure about that. Reporters aren't any more intelligent or openminded than the average person. All the time when I talk about doping with people who aren't cycling fans I'm baffled about how little they understand how PEDs work with comments like "but in soccer doping isn't effective" or "why would anybody take steroids in an endurance sport?" and I don't think there's any reason to assume the average reporter is better informed.

I agree for the most part that ignorance and stupidity, if you will, is easy to come by in the media. I suppose I was thinking of sports like baseball and the NFL where the 'whispers' have been going on for years, and sometimes those same 'reporters' or commentators are ex-players themselves—so they definitely know what goes on behind the curtain.

 

[Winterfold]

OP - the reason there isn't much doping talk in the Pro Road Racing forum is because...

...if you mention doping it gets moved here.

It's hardly rocket science.

True, a lot of fans have got over doping and dont really give a **** as the authorities have a lid on it, and it is relatively safe, except for tragic imbeciles like Ricco. Not sure what can be done to stop that guy being a liability to himself.

Those bikers seem pretty realistic IMO.

 

[Benotti69]

OP - the reason there isn't much doping talk in the Pro Road Racing forum is because...

...if you mention doping it gets moved here.

It's hardly rocket science.

True, a lot of fans have got over doping and dont really give a **** as the authorities have a lid on it, and it is relatively safe, except for tragic imbeciles like Ricco. Not sure what can be done to stop that guy being a liability to himself.

Those bikers seem pretty realistic IMO.

nah most of the PRR posters don't come in here and when they do their opinions are so disbelieving....

 

[Dr. Maserati]

As far as I can tell, many people who know little or nothing about pro-cycling will happily parrot the 'they're all druggies aren't they' line. In that respect their ignorance nicely matches the cheap cynicism of the Clinic's headbangers.

They may be ignorant, but that matters little as the perception equals their reality.

Its interesting, the comments you chose to focus on.....

The comments are actually very level headed. Either some of these Bikers are cyclists, or some of the general public don't take everything they hear reported, at face value.



"Drugs or no drugs, I still enjoy it. After all, there's plenty of other sportsmen taknig drugs in other sports that are less controlled"

"It is a shame about the drugs but you've got to support it and hope that eventually it becomes drug free."

"if footballers, tennis players and cricketers had to train and race as hard as racing cyclists, ALL these sports would be riddled with drugs and exaggerated media speculation...."

"football and tennis is riddled with drugs. there are **** all tests to catch them."

"they wanted to introduce more testing in tennis and the players refused. I wonder why?"

I cannot log on to the moto site yet - but if your post are quotes from it then it shows that even the 'level-headed' comments view the sport as dirty.