What are these mysterious pills found on the roadside at Paris-Roubaix?

[JimmyFingers]

Jimmy is not the average, he is a 'special' fan

Thanks Bennotti knew deep down you respected m... Hey, wait a minute....

 

[Benotti69]

Thanks Bennotti knew deep down you respected m... Hey, wait a minute....

Nowt wrong with a sense of humour James and you've got one

 

[peterst6906]

Yes, if the guy had half a brain he would have given UCI half the vial and tested the other half independently......

And which lab would he have had do that; and who would have paid for the tests?

 

[avanti]

I forget then, why is it that we never heard from the rider or team whose pocket this fell from? Surely the rider in question realizes that they lost this during the race, no? Or is it because it never happened, and there was no crash, there are no photos...oh wait. Then what was all this testing about?

.........................

Perhaps the container was not dropped by a rider but was kicked up by a rider so it appeared that the rider dropped it - this could have damaged the label.

 

[Benotti69]

And which lab would he have had do that; and who would have paid for the tests?

Are you suggesting there are no credible independent laboratories in the UK?

I would imagine the bigger Universities have laboratories that do testing for commercial purposes.

If the guy wanted to do the sport a service he could have paid for it himself and recovered the costs by selling the story to the media if the test came back different from 'Official UCI' tests.

But I am sure a true sports fan would have no problem with the costs of simple tests. I cannot imagine that testing 4 half tablets would be prohibitive.

 

[yespatterns]

I'm willing to accept the test result as stated. The only thing that i'd consider buying tin foil in order to form a tiny bowler hat with is the labeling. Overall, the whole thing was pretty meh.

 

[Hawkwood]

Do I have to spell it out? This guy said he had "34 in sequence pin sharp images", once someone uses language like that he's trying to sell a package to the press.

 

[Hawkwood]

Are you suggesting there are no credible independent laboratories in the UK?

I would imagine the bigger Universities have laboratories that do testing for commercial purposes.

If the guy wanted to do the sport a service he could have paid for it himself and recovered the costs by selling the story to the media if the test came back different from 'Official UCI' tests.

But I am sure a true sports fan would have no problem with the costs of simple tests. I cannot imagine that testing 4 half tablets would be prohibitive.

He set his stall out, just no one was stupid enough to bite.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The question I want to ask now, is should finishing bottles/finishing doses be banned?

There is already a thread about the ethics and grey areas, but specific to this capsule, and this rider's and team's plan for the race, should it be illegal? Is it against the spirit of the sport?

It's really weird reading about these finishing bottles now. When my coach way back in the day suggested a bottle with caffeine, panadol and calcium ascorbate (? for brain food?) in a bottle for the end of a race, I put it in the "too much mucking around" bag and never even tried it in training.

I didn't think it would make any difference, to be honest.

How is gatorade / powerade, etc in bidons any different to the other ingredients here that can all be purchased at the supermarket?

 

[Hawkwood]

Ok, then how did they get them?

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this. But I'm off to watch the World Cup.

Will be back...

They didn't he effectively smuggled the vial into the UK, side-lining the proper authorities, the French. This may well have caused problems for Cookson, trying to get permission to send the unknown drugs out of the UK to be tested. I wouldn't be surprised if Cookson didn't have to take legal advice on this.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

In my best Invader Zim voice: "perfectly normal".

Finishing pills of this composition is just weird. Wouldn't you want a drink instead? And why is it in a vial with an official looking prescription label? Which pharmacy cooked up those tablets? Labelled experimental... Team doctor, perhaps?

And if so innocent, why hasn't someone come forward and said "Ooops. Dropped my finishing pills. I take X, Y, and Z in the last 25 km to help me with A, B, and C. All within the rules. Doctor DGHGJKG put them together for the team".

Uh, wait. Which team doctor has the ability to assemble those ingredients in pill form?

Seems legit.

John Swanson

 

[Granville57]

They didn't he effectively smuggled the vial into the UK, side-lining the proper authorities, the French. This may well have caused problems for Cookson, trying to get permission to send the unknown drugs out of the UK to be tested. I wouldn't be surprised if Cookson didn't have to take legal advice on this.

Which French authorities are you referring to? I still have no idea what you're attempting to put forward regarding this matter.

Are ibuprofen, caffeine, quinine and theophylline prohibited from being transferred across European borders without some kind of special permission? Would these items need to be "smuggled"?

And how would one go about obtaining permission for sending or receiving anything that is "unknown"? What if the "unknown" product was nothing more than sugar? Would it still require governmental oversight, just in case it was something else?

Legitimate question. Again though, I'm just not clear on what your angle to all this is.

 

[Granville57]

Perhaps the container was not dropped by a rider but was kicked up by a rider so it appeared that the rider dropped it - this could have damaged the label.

Are we just making stuff up now?

This thread is bewildering to me on so many levels.

The vial was reportedly run over by a vehicle, after falling from a rider's jersey. That was initial claim, and has never changed. There are, supposedly, pictures of the crash that resulted in the vial falling from the rider's pocket.

Strange that no one has claimed this vial yet though. Unless they've something to hide...

 

[Granville57]

Do I have to spell it out? This guy said he had "34 in sequence pin sharp images", once someone uses language like that he's trying to sell a package to the press.

But maybe he then took a look at CN's efforts at posting pics lately and just thought, "Oh forget it. They can't even properly frame a bike. And the text overlay is a mess."

 

[peterst6906]

Are you suggesting there are no credible independent laboratories in the UK?

I would imagine the bigger Universities have laboratories that do testing for commercial purposes.

You can imagine all you like, but testing isn't that straight forward. You don't just drop a sample into a lab and ask them to screen for banned substances.

I can run general screens for drugs, especially in my old lab, which was forensic; but there is no way as an unacredited lab for banned substances under the WADA code that I would take on work to independently verify that. We have enough work of our own.

If the guy wanted to do the sport a service he could have paid for it himself and recovered the costs by selling the story to the media if the test came back different from 'Official UCI' tests.

That's often the way. Someone else should have done it. If you are so concerned about it, why didn't you put your hand up in here and contact the guy and offer to pay for the tests?

But I am sure a true sports fan would have no problem with the costs of simple tests. I cannot imagine that testing 4 half tablets would be prohibitive.

You should contact a lab. You will be surprised.

In the UK in particular, I have done a lot of work with one of the World's top laboratories located there (it's a Defence laboratory, not a sports drug laboratory). They do have the capability to take any sample and analyse it to confirm to a high certainty, every component in sample. As part of our accreditation schemes they take part in, their costs for 15 days of work runs over 200,000 GBP. If we send them samples to analyse, the standard rate for the lab is around the 15,000 GBP per day. That is an extreme case because of the samples we deal with, but labs aren't cheap to run, especially if you want a comprehensive set of tests conducted.

 

[Siriuscat]

Pot Belge V 2.0???

 

[Granville57]

You can imagine all you like, but testing isn't that straight forward.

Thanks for that info.

But we need to remember that Mike Brampton's company is Thames Medical, a company that supplies veterinary equipment. Surely he would have contacts within the lab community that the average Shmoe on the street would not?

Personally, I would've sent part of the vial off to Michael Ashenden. Is there any reason to believe that someone such as Ashenden would've been unable to test the contents of the vial without incurring exorbitant costs?

I really don't know.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm slightly surprised he didn't get approached by any of the media companies to assist.

 

[Granville57]

I'm slightly surprised he didn't get approached by any of the media companies to assist.

Too bad there are no big media companies in England with cycling interests.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You can imagine all you like, but testing isn't that straight forward. You don't just drop a sample into a lab and ask them to screen for banned substances.

Most of this fits with my limited understanding of commercial labs. "What's in it?" is not a simple question.

Cycling is too small a sport for a media property to spend even five figures on it.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Thanks for that info.

But we need to remember that Mike Brampton's company is Thames Medical, a company that supplies veterinary equipment. Surely he would have contacts within the lab community that the average Shmoe on the street would not?

And we need to remember that such a person would never risk passing UK customs with 1g of weed, never mind an unidentified white powder with a 'suspicious' label. It's simply not credible that a veterinary equipment supplier chose to smuggle horse steroids for all he knew.

 

[DirtyWorks]

may not have been ibuprofen. may have been tramadol.
i mean, we still have no clue what actually was in the vial.
unless you attach any evidential value to public UCI statements.

Exactly. And for the doubters, here's the staff at the lab:http://www.doping.chuv.ch/en/lad_home/lad-qui-sommes-nous/lad-qui-sommes-nous-personnel.htm Hi Marital!!!

What else does LAD do? The APMU. Saugy and the IOC have to keep those experts quiet!!! http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-17586597

Martial is apparently requested by the IOC
http://www.arneljungqvist.com/news/112-no-positive-test-results-half-way-through-sochi Go to the bottom.

Armstrong's Tour de Suisse samples that never tested positive were rumored to be thanks to Saugy re-arranging the order of the samples.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tyler-hamiltons-book-reveals-in-depth-doping-network
"That is until Lance tested positive," Hamilton wrote. "I know because he told me."

While Hamilton was worried, Armstrong was flippant. "No worries dude. We're gonna have a meeting with them. It's all taken care of."

"Them" was the Lausanne anti-doping lab director Martial Saugy, a fact confirmed by USADA's own investigation.


Martial has every incentive to manage doping controversy for the UCI once more. No worries dude!

I'd still like to hear how the dope passed from UKAD to the UCI.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This is Saugy who despite his various furphies got the new ABP gig yeah? And then allegedly asked people like Ashenden to sign NDAs restricting all public comment.

 

[barn yard]

so the UCI have stated that this vial did not contain doping products

from this evidence we can conclude that the vial contained doping products

 

[Hawkwood]

Which French authorities are you referring to? I still have no idea what you're attempting to put forward regarding this matter.

Are ibuprofen, caffeine, quinine and theophylline prohibited from being transferred across European borders without some kind of special permission? Would these items need to be "smuggled"?

And how would one go about obtaining permission for sending or receiving anything that is "unknown"? What if the "unknown" product was nothing more than sugar? Would it still require governmental oversight, just in case it was something else?

Legitimate question. Again though, I'm just not clear on what your angle to all this is.

He brought the vial into the UK not knowing what was in it, he smuggled an unknown drug in without informing Her Majesty's Customs and Excise. If he'd been stopped at Customs and this vial had been found he would have been facing an extremely uncomfortable few hours at least. Customs and Excise don't need a warrant to dismantle your car, and having done so they are under no obligation to put your car back together again. I come back though Dover (ferry) or Folkestone (tunnel) about six times a year, there are always cars and vans being searched. I have been questioned as another vehicle has been taken apart, door linings the lot. "I found this vial by the side of the road officer", would love to see how that one played out. As for who to hand it to, well the French Police, I wouldn't have had it anywhere near my car as I went back through Customs.