What are these mysterious pills found on the roadside at Paris-Roubaix?

[Race Radio]

21st century Pot Belge

Not even close. Pot Belge is cocaine, heroin, caffeine, amphetamines.

I bring ibuprofen on all my long riders. Caffeine gels as well. I remember as a kid a coach tell us to drink Tonic water for cramps. The Theophylline is a bit odd, basically another form of caffeine

 

[Hawkwood]

Theophlline is in the caffeine family, but yes, asthma and COPD.

And see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21154358 for an article entitled `Quinine for muscle cramps'

`Based on a single trial comparison, quinine alone was significantly less effective than a quinine-theophylline combination but with no significant differences in adverse events.'

 

[del1962]

Not even close. Pot Belge is cocaine, heroin, caffeine, amphetamines.

I bring ibuprofen on all my long riders. Caffeine gels as well. I remember as a kid a coach tell us to drink Tonic water for cramps. The Theophylline is a bit odd, basically another form of caffeine

Don't know if this is true but I read that ibuprofen actually reduces the effect of training apparently it blunts exercise adaption. I have also read that ppl who use ibrobrufen get no less muscle soreness than those who don't. Personally I would only use it if to injured to train or stuff like toothache.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

The REAL story!

The vial that was cleared was simply a patsy. No one is talking about the second vial that was found on the grassy knoll.

 

[doperhopper]

Not even close. Pot Belge is cocaine, heroin, caffeine, amphetamines.

sure, we all know - this was to point out how the times have changed, it's basically kids' juice now wrt heavy artillery back then, and we still complain how dirty they are (I know, EPO, transfusions, clen', salbutamol, HGH, etc, etc), this was just the "pocket fuel" comparison

 

[More Strides than Rides]

The question I want to ask now, is should finishing bottles/finishing doses be banned?

There is already a thread about the ethics and grey areas, but specific to this capsule, and this rider's and team's plan for the race, should it be illegal? Is it against the spirit of the sport?

World Anti-Doping Code • 2015

FUNDAMENTAL RATIONALE FOR THE
WORLD ANTI-DOPING CODE
Anti-doping programs seek to preserve what is intrinsically valuable about sport. This intrinsic value is often referred to as “the spirit of sport.” it is the essence of Olympism, the pursuit of human excellence through the dedicated perfection of each person’s natural talents. it is how we play true. The spirit of sport is the celebration of the human spirit, body and mind, and is reflected in values we find in and through sport, including:
•Ethics, fair play and honesty
•Health
•Excellence in performance
•Character and education
•Fun and joy
•Teamwork
•Dedication and commitment
•Respect for rules and laws
•Respect for self and other Participants
•Courage
•Community and solidarity

Doping is fundamentally contrary to the spirit of sport

 

[DirtyWorks]

The question I want to ask now, is should finishing bottles/finishing doses be banned?

There is already a thread about the ethics and grey areas, but specific to this capsule, and this rider's and team's plan for the race, should it be illegal? Is it against the spirit of the sport?

And this is where some interpret the story as a non-story and others are not as easy to dismiss it. This is the messy problem with regulating behaviour with no easy answers and lots of opinions.

At least I know what to take.

The fact that Saugy/UCI are the source of the information should be a source of doubt, but I guess that's just my pessimism.

 

[Benotti69]

As everyone with half a brain and no agenda have been saying all along

So guys are not racing on bread and water...............

 

[Benotti69]

And this is where some interpret the story as a non-story and others are not as easy to dismiss it. This is the messy problem with regulating behaviour with no easy answers and lots of opinions.

At least I know what to take.

The fact that Saugy/UCI are the source of the information should be a source of doubt, but I guess that's just my pessimism.

Yes, if the guy had half a brain he would have given UCI half the vial and tested the other half independently......

 

[Eyeballs Out]

The UCI statement doesn't appear to shed any light on the label on the vial ("test product ?)"

It also appears quite carefully worded. Presence of four substances, but it doesn't appear to say that the powder was made up solely of these four substances.

 

[Granville57]

As everyone with half a brain and no agenda have been saying all along

I forget then, why is it that we never heard from the rider or team whose pocket this fell from? Surely the rider in question realizes that they lost this during the race, no? Or is it because it never happened, and there was no crash, there are no photos...oh wait. Then what was all this testing about?

I wonder, did the UCI ever make contact with the individual who was carrying this vial? Ya' know, just to say, "Would you care to elaborate on the contents before we do the testing?"

Or maybe, "Just you know, we did test that vial that fell from your pocket, and it's all good. We'll be releasing a statement to the public, but we will keep your good name out of it. Carry on."

It's all so confusing.

If we are to believe this report from the UCI, then the event itself did, in fact, happen. So why didn't anyone come forward? How easy would've it have been to say, "Look, that vial fell form my pocket, and I'm so confident in the legality of the contents that I am going to tell the world exactly what the labs are going to find."

Because unless I missed something, nowhere in the official UCI press release do they question the validity of the events themselves. A rider crashed; a vial ended up on the ground; Mike Brampton turned the contents over to the proper authorities (although I did not see Mike Brampton mentioned by name amongst all the other back slapping in that UCI announcement).

Just curious. That's all.

I wasted some time re-reading the thread and it's a mix of deniers.

Excellent work.

Not even close. Pot Belge is cocaine, heroin, caffeine, amphetamines.

Or so you heard.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

As everyone with half a brain and no agenda have been saying all along

Stupid comment because:

1. We're talking about cycling, which has a history you evidently are unaware of...
2. You are not capable of spectrum analysis on the intertubes, so we were all speculating.
3. You have an agenda.

Suck it.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

That's an impressive attempt to rewrite history. I wasted some time re-reading the thread and it's a mix of deniers.

Hoax/Prank
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442172&postcount=67 (that's you)
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442133&postcount=59
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442610&postcount=79
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442641&postcount=83
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442801&postcount=101
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442836&postcount=105
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443165&postcount=136
(that's you claiming hoax again and launching another broad personal attack)
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443209&postcount=150
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443307&postcount=167
(you again)
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443588&postcount=190

"Finishing bottle"
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442745&postcount=94
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1442824&postcount=104 (that's you later)
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1441992&postcount=29
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443093&postcount=125
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443154&postcount=133
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443203&postcount=148
(that's you again)
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1443258&postcount=161
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1460827&postcount=217
(That's you again)

This is not about being "right" or "wrong." You were both. You put at least as much energy into attacking anyone with an alternative view with which you did not agree and then TODAY pretend that never happened.

Separately, the information was released by the UCI and analyzed by the UCI's old friend Saugy. I find it interesting the UCI inserted itself into the analysis.

UKAD worked with the UCI and the Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation to have the substances in the vial identified by the Swiss Laboratory for Doping Analyses (LAD)

Some may remember Saugy as the guy who took meetings with at least Armstrong & Co at the UCI's request, managed Armstrong positives. Hardly an independent source of information.

Strong response. Thanks for bringing it hard.

 

[JimmyFingers]

So guys are not racing on bread and water...............

Beetroot juice, caffeine, supplements, electrolytes, carb loading..where do you draw the line in the sand? No-one races pan y agua, not even me. I fancy some cortisone too

What Wada has to do is provide rules that define pan y agua. So no TUEs for cortisone, ban tramadol too, but caffeine? How can you? Also medication to help with cramping? If I was prone to it late in the race, and it is legal I'd take what I need rather than suffer than agony and lose the race. You may as well retire I you had to race with cramps. Not a fan of finishing bottles but at the same time, consider the physical extertion the riders go through, there has to be legal, non-PE substances, medications to ease pain, allow the riders some small comforts. We want them to race hard and fast, and entertain us, you have to be wary of being puritanical and instead try to identify legitimate methods of enabling the riders coping with the sheer physical load.

 

[Race Radio]

Don't know if this is true but I read that ibuprofen actually reduces the effect of training apparently it blunts exercise adaption. I have also read that ppl who use ibrobrufen get no less muscle soreness than those who don't. Personally I would only use it if to injured to train or stuff like toothache.

Agreed, I don't use it for any performance advantage but sometimes get headaches after 5 hours. I can image 5 hours on the cobbles give headaches

 

[Pack Fodder]

The question I want to ask now, is should finishing bottles/finishing doses be banned?

There is already a thread about the ethics and grey areas, but specific to this capsule, and this rider's and team's plan for the race, should it be illegal? Is it against the spirit of the sport?

I might suggest the key line in that is

•Respect for rules and laws

Nothing in the vial was illegal. It DID respect the rules and laws.

The rules are, surely, what is set down, not what we might wish were set down. And the key ethic has to be "play by the rules" as the rules actually are, rather than any one observer thinks they ought to be?

Sometimes I wonder if the phrase "pan y agua" is not taken a little TOO literally.

 

[Hawkwood]

I forget then, why is it that we never heard from the rider or team whose pocket this fell from? Surely the rider in question realizes that they lost this during the race, no? Or is it because it never happened, and there was no crash, there are no photos...oh wait. Then what was all this testing about?

I wonder, did the UCI ever make contact with the individual who was carrying this vial? Ya' know, just to say, "Would you care to elaborate on the contents before we do the testing?"

Or maybe, "Just you know, we did test that vial that fell from your pocket, and it's all good. We'll be releasing a statement to the public, but we will keep your good name out of it. Carry on."

It's all so confusing.

If we are to believe this report from the UCI, then the event itself did, in fact, happen. So why didn't anyone come forward? How easy would've it have been to say, "Look, that vial fell form my pocket, and I'm so confident in the legality of the contents that I am going to tell the world exactly what the labs are going to find."

Because unless I missed something, nowhere in the official UCI press release do they question the validity of the events themselves. A rider crashed; a vial ended up on the ground; Mike Brampton turned the contents over to the proper authorities (although I did not see Mike Brampton mentioned by name amongst all the other back slapping in that UCI announcement).

Just curious. That's all.


Excellent work.


Or so you heard.

Mike Brampton did not turn `the contents over to the proper authorities', these would have been in France, instead he chose to smuggle a container containing what could have been a Class A drug into the UK, given what he does for a profession this was madness.

 

[sniper]

Yes, if the guy had half a brain he would have given UCI half the vial and tested the other half independently......

isn't that a bit much to ask of an average cycling fan?

 

[Granville57]

Mike Brampton did not turn `the contents over to the proper authorities',

Ok, then how did they get them?

these would have been in France, instead he chose to smuggle a container containing what could have been a Class A drug into the UK, given what he does for a profession this was madness.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this. But I'm off to watch the World Cup.

Will be back...

 

[sniper]

Don't know if this is true but I read that ibuprofen actually reduces the effect of training apparently it blunts exercise adaption. I have also read that ppl who use ibrobrufen get no less muscle soreness than those who don't. Personally I would only use it if to injured to train or stuff like toothache.

may not have been ibuprofen. may have been tramadol.
i mean, we still have no clue what actually was in the vial.
unless you attach any evidential value to public UCI statements.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

... consider the physical extertion the riders go through, there has to be legal, non-PE substances, medications to ease pain, allow the riders some small comforts. We want them to race hard and fast, and entertain us, you have to be wary of being puritanical and instead try to identify legitimate methods of enabling the riders coping with the sheer physical load.

Isn't that what training is for?

Nothing in the vial was illegal. It DID respect the rules and laws.

Obviously, but I am asking if the rules should be changed? Is the spirit of the sport to cover for missteps in training with cocktails at the end?




I'm not asking the questions because I want an answer, mind you. I'm asking because I don't have an answer. I know my stance on what the line is outside of competition, but during competition, between the start and finish lines, is something I haven't though of hard enough.

 

[Pack Fodder]

Isn't that what training is for?


Obviously, but I am asking if the rules should be changed? Is the spirit of the sport to cover for missteps in training with cocktails at the end?

Very much depends on whats in the cocktail, really. If you are riding for hours on end, you can't exactly have a normal pattern of either nutrition or hydration.

Should the rules be changed? Quite possibly, I think. But any line is arbitrary. Blood doping with your own blood introduces no foreign substance whatsoever, necessarily - but the sports world has, after some thought, come to the firm conclusion it ain't on.

If Froome, or Contador, or Nibali or Costa crash on TdF stage one, and need a standard blood transfusion...is that cheating? Of course not. But in a weird sense, its an arbitrary line.

Energy gels are needed in cycling, but they always strike me as the strangest most artificial looking things - not wrong, just oddly 'unnatural'. We don't flutter an eyelid, of course. Arbitrary in a way.

Which is perhaps a longwinded way of saying that it's just not all that easy to define a 'spirit' of sport. It takes thought, and arbitrary decisions. To which the only sensible response is to follow the rules as they are, and leave the philosphy to the better qualified.

 

[Benotti69]

isn't that a bit much to ask of an average cycling fan?

Jimmy is not the average, he is a 'special' fan

 

[Benotti69]

Nothing in the vial was illegal. It DID respect the rules and laws.

According the to the UCI, who also backed Armstrong amongst others.....

 

[sniper]

According the to the UCI, who also backed Armstrong amongst others.....

the complete lack of scepticism that some posters display is alarming.

not to deny the posibility that the vial may actually have been harmless, but statements such as packfodder's are just begging for cyclingnewsforum to introduce a facepalm icon.