What can Sagan achieve in RIO in MTB race?

[glassmoon]

well he was Junior XCO world champion and 4th next year in U23. also he got better skills than 2/3 of the XCO riders anyways. he'll do just fine - top10 is possible if everything goes well.

 

[yetiyeti]

Re: Re:

hopefully not a broken bone

this.

He is lucky ba....d that Tinkoff is folding . No way any other team owner or DS would have allowed him to race.

Podium or last one. it does not matter. Lets hope he will be without any injury after the race. Spring 2017 should be his one.

Of course any DS will allowed him to race if Specialized wants him there(They will pay some part of his wage.50% ?).

He is risking serious injury there. Whole season can be in danger. It's not gonna be Champ Elysees sunday ride for him.
But probably you are right. Who knows?

I've never seen stats on it, but just from watching road racing and mountain bike racing it seems to me that there are a lot more serious injuries in road racing - due to the speeds and impacts with pavement and due to the fact that one mistake from rider can take down a large group.

 

[doperhopper]

Vino option: you have a few million deep budget... ;-) ;-)

 

[SKSemtex]

Vino option: you have a few million deep budget... ;-) ;-)

waw. Now I finally understand what Vino option really mean in pools.

 

[Kokoso]

Already he achieved despise of lot people by this. Despise is probybly too strong word but you know what I mean.

I think he can even win the race. Win race, but lost heart.

I still don't get it. How the hell is this even happening? How the hell are we talking about this? This should never happen. Try to believe it is not all about the money but there you go. People aren't exactly shy about money and Peter certainly isn't last in the row in it.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

I guess that if the answer were yes, they would have been training for it for the last few months, but could the top Cyclo-Cross guys have been competitive in this if they had made it a focus since the end of their season, or if they had done last summer plus this? The skil sets look fairly compatible from my limited viewing of each discipline.
Might it have been a better way of using his summer for Matthieu Van Der Poel than coming 8th in the Ronde van Limburg?

 

[Keram]

I don´t think it is all about money. I think Sagan doing this for fun. He likes MTB more than road because it is pure action compared to most of cycling stages (at least first part of it, when he is pedalling in bunch). Anyway top 10 would be huge acomplishment for him. But you should never underestimate Peter Sagan

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

I don´t think it is all about money. I think Sagan doing this for fun. He likes MTB more than road because it is pure action compared to most of cycling stages (at least first part of it, when he is pedalling in bunch). Anyway top 10 would be huge acomplishment for him. But you should never underestimate Peter Sagan

So you tihink he stripped of olympic games MTNiker who who really deserved it just for fun?

That certainly doesn't make it better for me. You can have fun other ways :Neutral:

 

[Jagartrott]

I'm curious.
Cyclo-cross champion Nys once finished top-10 on the Olympics some years ago, so Sagan should be able to at least do the same.

 

[yetiyeti]

Re: Re:

I don´t think it is all about money. I think Sagan doing this for fun. He likes MTB more than road because it is pure action compared to most of cycling stages (at least first part of it, when he is pedalling in bunch). Anyway top 10 would be huge acomplishment for him. But you should never underestimate Peter Sagan

So you tihink he stripped of olympic games MTNiker who who really deserved it just for fun?

That certainly doesn't make it better for me. You can have fun other ways :Neutral:

Just because Sagan wants to do it, in part, because it will be fun for him doesn't mean he won't outperform what Slovakia's alternative representatives would have been for mountain biking. The bottom line is that the other guys just aren't that good on the world stage and there's a very good chance that Sagan is strong enough to provide a better result for Slovakia. By the way, one of them is taking Sagan's spot in the road race, so he's still getting to ride in the Olympics.

 

[Keram]

Re: Re:

I don´t think it is all about money. I think Sagan doing this for fun. He likes MTB more than road because it is pure action compared to most of cycling stages (at least first part of it, when he is pedalling in bunch). Anyway top 10 would be huge acomplishment for him. But you should never underestimate Peter Sagan

So you tihink he stripped of olympic games MTNiker who who really deserved it just for fun?

That certainly doesn't make it better for me. You can have fun other ways :Neutral:

Just because Sagan wants to do it, in part, because it will be fun for him doesn't mean he won't outperform what Slovakia's alternative representatives would have been for mountain biking. The bottom line is that the other guys just aren't that good on the world stage and there's a very good chance that Sagan is strong enough to provide a better result for Slovakia. By the way, one of them is taking Sagan's spot in the road race, so he's still getting to ride in the Olympics.

No he is not. Patrik Tybor is going. It is highly possible that Sagan is best slovak mountain biker now even without decent training. We can discuss it really long time if it is fair from Sagan. But I am quite sure that majority of slovak fans dont blame Sagan for doing this.

 

[togo95]

Re: Re:

By the way, one of them is taking Sagan's spot in the road race, so he's still getting to ride in the Olympics.

In the end, Haring is not in great form at the moment so he left his place for Tybor, who will start in the road race.

 

[yetiyeti]

Re: Re:

I don´t think it is all about money. I think Sagan doing this for fun. He likes MTB more than road because it is pure action compared to most of cycling stages (at least first part of it, when he is pedalling in bunch). Anyway top 10 would be huge acomplishment for him. But you should never underestimate Peter Sagan

So you tihink he stripped of olympic games MTNiker who who really deserved it just for fun?

That certainly doesn't make it better for me. You can have fun other ways :Neutral:

Just because Sagan wants to do it, in part, because it will be fun for him doesn't mean he won't outperform what Slovakia's alternative representatives would have been for mountain biking. The bottom line is that the other guys just aren't that good on the world stage and there's a very good chance that Sagan is strong enough to provide a better result for Slovakia. By the way, one of them is taking Sagan's spot in the road race, so he's still getting to ride in the Olympics.

No he is not. Patrik Tybor is going. It is highly possible that Sagan is best slovak mountain biker now even without decent training. We can discuss it really long time if it is fair from Sagan. But I am quite sure that majority of slovak fans dont blame Sagan for doing this.

Oh, I didn't know it had changed from Haring taking the spot. Thanks. I'm sure for Slovak fans this is the only chance that their rider actually ends up getting TV coverage in the race - assuming that the Olympic XCO race is covered similarly to World Cup XCO where only the top few leaders and an occasional big name further back in the pack actually get mentioned.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

I guess that if the answer were yes, they would have been training for it for the last few months, but could the top Cyclo-Cross guys have been competitive in this if they had made it a focus since the end of their season, or if they had done last summer plus this? The skil sets look fairly compatible from my limited viewing of each discipline.
Might it have been a better way of using his summer for Matthieu Van Der Poel than coming 8th in the Ronde van Limburg?

Mathieu Van Der Poel, tried to do exactly this. He raced several MTB races including 3 WC XCO races where he finished 32, 34 and 91. Remeber he is the current CX elite world champion and 2 time junior CX world champion/1 time Junior road champion, so if any CX rider could do it it should be him.


The skill sets used to be more compatible, and to some extent they still are at national level in non-MTB countries, but at WC level they really aren't. XCO racing has got much, much more technical over the past few years. Kenta Gallagher, a promising XCO racer is now doing very well on the UCI DH WC circuit. Nino Schurter, Julien Absalon et. al. can rip down trails on their 100ish mm travel bikes with massive seat posts that most casual riders would want 140mm+ travel and a dropper post to even attempt.


There are 5-6 guys I can name who should straight up leave Sagan in their dust both uphill and downhill, even if his skills are up to scratch. There are several others who should smoke him on the downhills and easily keep up with him on the climbs. I think top 10 is a realistic goal at best, but we shall see.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

I guess that if the answer were yes, they would have been training for it for the last few months, but could the top Cyclo-Cross guys have been competitive in this if they had made it a focus since the end of their season, or if they had done last summer plus this? The skil sets look fairly compatible from my limited viewing of each discipline.
Might it have been a better way of using his summer for Matthieu Van Der Poel than coming 8th in the Ronde van Limburg?

Mathieu Van Der Poel, tried to do exactly this. He raced several MTB races including 3 WC XCO races where he finished 32, 34 and 91. Remeber he is the current CX elite world champion and 2 time junior CX world champion/1 time Junior road champion, so if any CX rider could do it it should be him.


The skill sets used to be more compatible, and to some extent they still are at national level in non-MTB countries, but at WC level they really aren't. XCO racing has got much, much more technical over the past few years. Kenta Gallagher, a promising XCO racer is now doing very well on the UCI DH WC circuit. Nino Schurter, Julien Absalon et. al. can rip down trails on their 100ish mm travel bikes with massive seat posts that most casual riders would want 140mm+ travel and a dropper post to even attempt.


There are 5-6 guys I can name who should straight up leave Sagan in their dust both uphill and downhill, even if his skills are up to scratch. There are several others who should smoke him on the downhills and easily keep up with him on the climbs. I think top 10 is a realistic goal at best, but we shall see.

I was quite pissed off that he was not riding the RR in the beginnig. Now I am so happy he is doing MTB.
Thanks to him and all you guys here I started to watch and enjoy the cycling both on and out of the saddle. I started ride bycicle on regular basis. (1000-2000 km/month).
And now thanks to him and people like king boonen , I started to watch on you tube everything available about MTB. Amazing stuff. Far more exiting than RR. . Now I start to understand what is his real chances. . Shurter, Absalon are kings.
No wonder Sagan wanted to race this race so much.
I am sure I am not the only one. Either he finish first or last, MTB can not loose on this one.

 

[King Boonen]

Possibly more exciting in the short term. I've recently stopped MTB riding due to time constraints but still follow it and love getting out into the hills. The Rio course is very easy compared to a real XCO course, like La Bresse:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/solid-as-a-rock-practice-world-cup-xco-3-2016.html

But he's still going to have to match Schurter, Absalon, Kulhavy, Marotte, Vogel etc. in those rocks and gullies and that's going to be very difficult. Where he'll really suffer is the climbs, MTB riders who cross over usually end up as good climbers, possibly with a kick.

Personally I think Sagan getting a medal is bad for MTB. It pretty much shows it's a second class citizen that riders can just swap into if they feel like it (even though Sagan is obviously experienced and very talented).

It's worthwhile checking out the downhill racing too, shows why people who ride MTB tend to have much, much better bike handling skills than roadies. This is this weekends WC track in MSA, one of the best tracks in the world:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/claudios-course-preview-monte-sainte-anne-world-cup-dh-2016.html

This is a great video to show what Sagan is up against when it comes to the downhills:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Opposites-Attract-Brendan-Fairclough-and-Nino-Schurter-ride-the-EWS-final-in-Finale-Ligure-Italy-video-2013.html

Just to show who he's riding with there, this is Brendog at Rampage in 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXuC8uQyig

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

Possibly more exciting in the short term. I've recently stopped MTB riding due to time constraints but still follow it and love getting out into the hills. The Rio course is very easy compared to a real XCO course, like La Bresse:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/solid-as-a-rock-practice-world-cup-xco-3-2016.html

But he's still going to have to match Schurter, Absalon, Kulhavy, Marotte, Vogel etc. in those rocks and gullies and that's going to be very difficult. Where he'll really suffer is the climbs, MTB riders who cross over usually end up as good climbers, possibly with a kick.

Personally I think Sagan getting a medal is bad for MTB. It pretty much shows it's a second class citizen that riders can just swap into if they feel like it (even though Sagan is obviously experienced and very talented).

It's worthwhile checking out the downhill racing too, shows why people who ride MTB tend to have much, much better bike handling skills than roadies. This is this weekends WC track in MSA, one of the best tracks in the world:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/claudios-course-preview-monte-sainte-anne-world-cup-dh-2016.html

This is a great video to show what Sagan is up against when it comes to the downhills:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Opposites-Attract-Brendan-Fairclough-and-Nino-Schurter-ride-the-EWS-final-in-Finale-Ligure-Italy-video-2013.html

Just to show who he's riding with there, this is Brendog at Rampage in 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXuC8uQyig

Thanks for tips.
I am watching also your MTB section that´s why I mentioned you.

I dare to disagree about statement that his win would be disaster ....showing that second class .......
Of course he has no chance. But his win just cannot bring more damage then benefit. Probably I am wrong as I have not followed the scene so far , so I have no idea about the general interest of cycling fans, sponsors, money involved (both wages and team budget). But I think it is far less then in RR. His win or podium can probably bring huge attention and interest of people who follow only RR. MTB is definitely worth it.

The fact is that that from all people I know the most of them prefer to ride MTB bike to road one (including me) on recreational basis but nobody is watching it. This can change this summer.

BTW the guys from the videos are crazy.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

I don´t think it is all about money. I think Sagan doing this for fun. He likes MTB more than road because it is pure action compared to most of cycling stages (at least first part of it, when he is pedalling in bunch). Anyway top 10 would be huge acomplishment for him. But you should never underestimate Peter Sagan

So you tihink he stripped of olympic games MTNiker who who really deserved it just for fun?

That certainly doesn't make it better for me. You can have fun other ways :Neutral:

Just because Sagan wants to do it, in part, because it will be fun for him doesn't mean he won't outperform what Slovakia's alternative representatives would have been for mountain biking. The bottom line is that the other guys just aren't that good on the world stage and there's a very good chance that Sagan is strong enough to provide a better result for Slovakia. By the way, one of them is taking Sagan's spot in the road race, so he's still getting to ride in the Olympics.

If you've considered that I imply even win is possible surely wou would understood that I think Sagan can outperform other Slovakia representatives. But what is this argument good for? Are Olympic games just for money? Or just for win? For me neither. Sagan fans are forgetting what is sport or at least what Olympic games are about. And don't tell me "it's all about money" argument. Those who deserved to represent Slovakia should participate. But how did they end up?

By the way, one of them is taking Sagan's spot in the road race, so he's still getting to ride in the Olympics.

They end up empty handed. At first Slovakian cycling federation said ok one of them will do road race in exchange (not the one who should do MTB race but his substitute), farce still but at least it made some sense. But in the end Tybor will do RR and no one of guys who deserved to represent Slovakia will represent. Even bigger farce.
We can discuss it really long time if it's fair from Sagan but we can dicuss it really short time because probably most of us know answer. Only thing one can say is we don't know the background, but that doesn't matter really because Sagan of course always could say "no, thank you I don't want to race MTB, there are guys who deserve it, who actually are responsible that Slovakian guy can race at Olympic games." But he did not. Or did he and someone forced him to race MTB? How would someone do that? Or did he not even come up to this thought?
Instead we have his fanboys singing odes on him.
P.S: I don't think he will attract huge attention or something like that. I think he is overrated in that sense. And why is there special thread for this anyway? Stuff like this is normally discussed in riders thread, I don't see why this couldnt be. Sagan fans

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Re: Re:

If you've considered that I imply even win is possible surely wou would understood that I think Sagan can outperform other Slovakia representatives. But what is this argument good for? Are Olympic games just for money? Or just for win?

Well, it's about representing your own country. 300 000 people from Slovakia will watch MTB race. If Lami is there nobody cares about it. So I think that Slovak Cycling Federation made a good decision to delegate Sagan.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

If you've considered that I imply even win is possible surely wou would understood that I think Sagan can outperform other Slovakia representatives. But what is this argument good for? Are Olympic games just for money? Or just for win?

Well, it's about representing your own country. 300 000 people from Slovakia will watch MTB race. If Lami is there nobody cares about it. So I think that Slovak Cycling Federation made a good decision to delegate Sagan.

Representing one's country is not the same as number of TV viewers. You are mixing it together.

So are you saying that it's right that Sagan replaced that two guys who are responsible for one Slovak place in MTB race? Mind you, without them Sagan couldn't race it.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

If you've considered that I imply even win is possible surely wou would understood that I think Sagan can outperform other Slovakia representatives. But what is this argument good for? Are Olympic games just for money? Or just for win?

Well, it's about representing your own country. 300 000 people from Slovakia will watch MTB race. If Lami is there nobody cares about it. So I think that Slovak Cycling Federation made a good decision to delegate Sagan.

Representing one's country is not the same as number of TV viewers. You are mixing it together.

So are you saying that it's right that Sagan replaced that two guys who are responsible for one Slovak place in MTB race? Mind you, without them Sagan couldn't race it.

waw. I have some problem to understand this.

Never mind. Just let it be.Sagan is there Lami not. OK it is not fair. Deal with it.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

If you've considered that I imply even win is possible surely wou would understood that I think Sagan can outperform other Slovakia representatives. But what is this argument good for? Are Olympic games just for money? Or just for win?

Well, it's about representing your own country. 300 000 people from Slovakia will watch MTB race. If Lami is there nobody cares about it. So I think that Slovak Cycling Federation made a good decision to delegate Sagan.

Representing one's country is not the same as number of TV viewers. You are mixing it together.

So are you saying that it's right that Sagan replaced that two guys who are responsible for one Slovak place in MTB race? Mind you, without them Sagan couldn't race it.

waw. I have some problem to understand this.
OK IT IS NOT FAIR. Deal with it.

Oh you've said that Nice, after defending him...hypocrisy coat undressed

You know, you can represent your country even when nobody sees you on TV. Still you are representing. Representing country is not TV dependent. People represented even before TV was here :razz:

 

[glassmoon]

Re: Re:

If you've considered that I imply even win is possible surely wou would understood that I think Sagan can outperform other Slovakia representatives. But what is this argument good for? Are Olympic games just for money? Or just for win?

Well, it's about representing your own country. 300 000 people from Slovakia will watch MTB race. If Lami is there nobody cares about it. So I think that Slovak Cycling Federation made a good decision to delegate Sagan.

Representing one's country is not the same as number of TV viewers. You are mixing it together.

So are you saying that it's right that Sagan replaced that two guys who are responsible for one Slovak place in MTB race? Mind you, without them Sagan couldn't race it.

With the OG it's not always about who gained the points during 2y qualification - it's often about who is the best option available. Sagan is clearly better than Lami and is available so he gets the spot. Same goes for the other countries and other disciplines.
Without preparation, Sagan is on the level of Skarnitzl (cze) who is regularly better than Lami in the WCH.
Is it fair? We could speculate. Is it against the rules? No.
Other significant aspect is a huge PR boost for XCO/MTB which should be in the interest of all mtb riders (Lami including).

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

If you've considered that I imply even win is possible surely wou would understood that I think Sagan can outperform other Slovakia representatives. But what is this argument good for? Are Olympic games just for money? Or just for win?

Well, it's about representing your own country. 300 000 people from Slovakia will watch MTB race. If Lami is there nobody cares about it. So I think that Slovak Cycling Federation made a good decision to delegate Sagan.

Representing one's country is not the same as number of TV viewers. You are mixing it together.

So are you saying that it's right that Sagan replaced that two guys who are responsible for one Slovak place in MTB race? Mind you, without them Sagan couldn't race it.

Without preparation, Sagan is on the level of Skarnitzl (cze)

If that only was true...but Skarnitzl beat him. It's nothing more than speculation that Sagan is better than Lami. Wishful thinking of his fans. Lami probably is worse than Skarnitzl but maybe not that much. In 2014 Lami had more points, though I don't know races in detail . But whatever.

Is it fair? We could speculate. Is it against the rules? No.

I don't know if it's against the rules, I don't know Slovak qualyfing rules.But obviously it is not. My opinion on fair/not fair is clear, no speculation

]Other significant aspect is a huge PR boost for XCO/MTB which should be in the interest of all mtb riders (Lami including).

That's IMHO BS, Slovakia is not that big country to make huge PR boost and even if there is huge PR boost, that itself doesn't translate to bigger money or whatever. Sagan will have huge PR boost (already has), not MTB. I think this argument is made up to justify the unfairness you perceive.
Why it should be big interest of 29 years old Lami who maybe will have no chance to ride other Olympics or who's carreer might end any day - you never know - is beyond my comprehension.

With the OG it's not always about who gained the points during 2y qualification - it's often about who is the best option available.

That's a good point. It is valid for guys who actualy ARE doing that sport regularly and only get better than other guys from given country. But it is not valid for guys who actualy don't race that sport - and that's Sagan's case. Mind you it is only speculation that he would actually finished worse than Sagan. Sagan once crashed and once finished more than minute behind Skarnitzl (who had comfortable margin to second place so maybe didn't go full gas) - not exactly great. Something like that Lami might have achived too.

 

[SKSemtex]

Well, we will see "how fair" it was in few weeks .

You might be perfectly right but also perfectly wrong. Just let it be for now. We have perfectly received you massage.

Let Saganś legs to decide.