What do you think should be done about stage 16?

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What would you do about stage 16?

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Jul 4, 2011
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Bennyl said:



From twitter ...

@l_guercilena: Marco Velo, driver of Safety Moto "my red flag was up, Quintana passed me!" pic.twitter.com/ujDJIlkvha #giro

"my red flag was up quintana signalled to us on more than one ocassion to accelerate then he passed us and took off"
Thanks for posting and yes this doesn't reflect well on Quintana. However, unless there are a clear set of rules, procedures and penalties for disobeying those procedures chaos, excuses and finger pointing will be the result.

The authorities should learn from this, make the neccesary changes abd move on.
 
Jul 12, 2010
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Yes, but governing bodies have had no problems thinking on their feet and imposing penalties mid race when it comes to other issues in the past.

Quintana claims he did nothing wrong and clearly he is a liar. He may not have rode down on the motorbike, but he showed blatant disregard for the rules and his fellow competitors. Try and think of comparisons to others sports. Imagine this happen in the Tour in front of a worldwide audience! There would be a global uproar.

Ryder also mentioned, what does neutralised mean, does everyone stop? - he knows exactly what it means! We had a red flag earlier in the race!

The fact is Quintana should not have the pink jersey, Rolland should not 4th, and Ryder should not be in the position he is in.

Taking 1:50 off those three would solve all the problems, and I believe would not change the course of the race as Quintana will still ride away from everyone in the next couple of days.

Now, a great Giro will be remembered for this.
 
Fight.The.Power said:
Thanks for posting and yes this doesn't reflect well on Quintana. However, unless there are a clear set of rules, procedures and penalties for disobeying those procedures chaos, excuses and finger pointing will be the result.

The authorities should learn from this, make the neccesary changes abd move on.
Judging by that pic, and the comments of the moto-rider, Quintana should be thrown out. Red flag means neutralisation. His actions have made the race a farce.

My opinion is I think his plan was always to attack on the dangerous slope, knowing he had the teammate and the skill to do so. When the neutralisation was made, it ruined his plans, so he decided to take the risk anyway, wagering that there will be no reprimand.

Throw him out, along with anyone else that passed while the flag was out.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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There a decent size group containing the favorites prior to summit.

A few went right over the summit and preceded down the mountain.

Most stopped to do get warm.

Those who continued on had no obligation to stop, they were the continuation of the group and those behind left the group.
 
Stelvio said:
There is (apparently) nothing in the rulebook about what a motor bike with a red flag means. This isn't Formula 1, where btw a red flag means stop or return to pit.

There can't be new rules and penalties introduced during the race.

If the statement from the organization is correct (basically that the flags were there to help with visibility) they should have used the standard yellow flags that they use at traffic islands and roundabouts.

On the other hand, if the red flags has no purpose - why did they have red flags ready on top of the Stelvio at all?

But it wasn't the riders' in front fault's either, so from that viewpoint it isn't fair to penalize those riders either.
 
Jul 12, 2010
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/giro-d-italia/10860398/Giro-dItalia-2014-Rigoberto-Urans-general-manager-says-race-organiser-must-go-following-mixed-messages.html

Race radio, meanwhile, had earlier made an announcement in three languages – Italian, French and English – saying that a red flag would be carried on a motorbike at the head of the race "to avoid having attacks on the descent" while adding that the safety precautions would remain in place "until the security agents lower the red flag".
__________________________________

Obviously the entire peleton got the message except for the lead group who sat there cut off from all race officials, their teams and the entire racing fraternity wondering "I wonder what that red flag is for?"
 
Mar 10, 2009
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The red flag from a marshal? what does that mean under the rules? nothing, at most it is a warning of some sort. Red flag from a Commissaire? that means do not pass. The moto with the red flag picture from above? I wonder why that red flag is so clear when his red tail lights are dim? I also wonder how much the riders can see with bike caps covering their eyes and that snow falling? When a Spanish speaking rider, Quintana, an english speaking person and a french speaking persons understands when a marshal yells in italian? Most riders that come upon motorcycle marshals yell at them to get out of the way.
The organizer cannot make rule changes or neutralizations without the participation of the officials.
 
Jul 12, 2010
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from Nicholas Roche

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/giro-d-italia/nicolas-roches-giro-ditalia-diary-confusion-over-red-flag-has-left-us-frustrated-30309531.html

"The word coming back from team scouts was so bad that race leader Rigobero Uran and his Omega Pharma Quickstep squad agreed with some of the bigger teams to try and neutralise the stage to at least the top of Gavia.

After some attacking and reeling in at the Gavia, we were told there would be a motorbike in front of us at the Stevlio, guiding us down with a red flag and when the flag was pulled in we would be racing again.

Just past the summit, I stopped alongside Cadel Evans, Uran and my team-mate Rafal Majka and there were riders putting on jackets.

As I made my way back through the cars one of the other team cars was driving alongside the Movistar team car and I could hear the directeur sportifs arguing through the window.

I didn't know it at the time but when I got back to the group there was no motorbike, no red flag and to make matters worse, Colombian Nairo Quintana of Movistar had attacked with four or five others and was two minutes ahead."
 
This is a complete repeat from the other thread.

Red flag does not mean neutralization! That is the whole problem. That it was not clear to everyone.

BTW, I voted to penalize Quintana with time in case you are asking. That way it will make most of everyone happy.:)
 
Escarabajo said:
This is a complete repeat from the other thread.

Red flag does not mean neutralization! That is the whole problem. That it was not clear to everyone.

BTW, I voted to penalize Quintana with time in case you are asking. That way it will make most of everyone happy.:)
doesn't the race director drive with a red flag at the start of each stage to signify neutralisation?
 
Apr 11, 2010
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Just a Farce

Stage 16, from my perspective is a farce. While, I voted for adding time, to equate to that taken on the decent, the problem is that too much time has passed for that now. Further, I really don't blame the riders, in the end it is the organisers that have questions to answer.

What, in reality the situation has shows is not only poor organisation by the organisers but poor communications. I did not take a screen shot of the tweets posted by the organisers, but now deleted, but I have enough basic Italian to understand the Italian tweet and read the English tweet, both of which clearly stated that the decent was to be neutralised. Either that was the decision or not, but to publically release the information and then deny what they said reflects badly on them.

What they should have done, on the rest day, was organise for a DS from each team, standings leaders and senior riders to at least look at the descents, and have set the basis for which actions should have been taken on the day, to ensure riders safety, and then everyone could have gone into the stage knowing what was to happen. The conditions, to a point could have been predicted, which could have been factored into their considerations. It was not as if there was not snow on the sides of the passes the day before, and this at least would have provided a level of information and certainty for all, and likely avoided the problems.

Given what happened last year, of course the organisers were under pressure for the stage to occur as scheduled, but in the end, it all has to be about Riders health and safety. Lets be realistic, this is their workplace, and while employed by their teams the teams are effectively employed by the race organisers to put on the show. Creating risks outside the normal, which the conditions were, would be seen as breaches of duties owed to keep people safe. The neutralisation of the decent (whether meant to be in full or part), was a good solution, both to have the show, but protect the riders, however intentions can only be part of it. In the end it is a race, and people while having different ambitions want to win.

We should not blame the riders in this case, as much as we should not blame the riders for what happened on Stage 6. The situation, ultimately is not much different. Some of the consequences of the latter came from the fact that the organisers closed off part of the roundabout, where it should have been obvious in the early stages that by that time the peloton were going to be together at that time, thereby needing the space the whole roundabout would have given them. It is the organisers in the end that have to take a long hard look at themselves, and think about how they run their show. They not only have to think about the show, but the riders and the fans. They have, in the end, tarnished their product this year badly, despite the creation of some epic and interesting stages that will show a true all-round rider as the winner in the end.

In the end, it will be the riders who are at least from the fans perspective penalised. people will constantly debate who is the real winner of this Giro, rather than lauding the winner for everything they had done. I know after the chain-gate fiasco in the Tour of a few years ago, this happened to a point.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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cineteq said:
I can't believe people continue focusing on a red flag!!!! It's irrelevant!!!! THINK organizers. RCS was a mess (mis)communicating if the descent was going to be neutralized or not.

Yep, +1. The red flag here means very very little IMO.

This is a case of the officials screwing up with communicating what was happening to the riders. Nothing more nothing less.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Bennyl said:
Now, a great Giro will be remembered for this.
Well, that's the one thing (literally the only thing) your right about. This Giro will be remembered for the epic and great riding by Quintana as he stormed up the Val Martello and into the Maglia Rosa. :D
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Afrank said:
Well, that's the one thing (literally the only thing) your right about. This Giro will be remembered for the epic and great riding by Quintana as he stormed up the Val Martello and into the Maglia Rosa. :D
Stormed?

It was a good ride, but he couldn't even drop Ryder and Uran had his pink skirt caught in his chain and didnt chase. The rest rode defensively.


Hugh
 
Jul 12, 2010
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Afrank said:
Well, that's the one thing (literally the only thing) your right about. This Giro will be remembered for the epic and great riding by Quintana as he stormed up the Val Martello and into the Maglia Rosa. :D
It was an amazing ride. I hope his career continues to blossom and that we can see Nairo, Froome, Alberto and Nibali trading blows (and the younger riders who are showing so much in this race) in GTs for years to come.

In the end I think Quintana will continue to ride away from anyone in the next stages and it won't really matter. Then at least the focus will be able to turn away from what happened during the stage and the circumstances of Quintana initially distancing the Maglia rosa to how this can be avoided in the future.
 
Afrank said:
Yep, +1. The red flag here means very very little IMO.

This is a case of the officials screwing up with communicating what was happening to the riders. Nothing more nothing less.
definitely bad communications. but if i was riding, and there was a moto in front of me, waiving a red flag, i would give good thought as to why they were doing that.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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sad to see over 50% voting to keep results as it is, and only ~ 30% voting to fix the results adjusting for that dirty move.


A brilliant ride by Quintana up the final climb is tarnished by this unwanted controversy. If the race organizers had clearly indicated in race radio that there is no neutralization, then it would have been OK.

In a professional setting, if mixed signals were sent, then ethically speaking, Giro org shud have fixed the time gaps while doing the official results. They knew abt the impending controversy before the descent was completed. they could have seen the time gaps and adjusted accordingly.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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murali said:
sad to see over 50% voting to keep results as it is, and only ~ 30% voting to fix the results adjusting for that dirty move.
I voted to keep them as is mostly because of how much time has already gone by. I would be ok with either keeping the results or adjusting the time if they can actually decide on an appropriate amount of time. Also, if Quin, Roll, and Hys were to delay finishing a stage by 60 to 120 seconds that would be ok too.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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hughmoore said:
Stormed?

It was a good ride, but he couldn't even drop Ryder and Uran had his pink skirt caught in his chain and didnt chase. The rest rode defensively.


Hugh
Ryder is the tenacious type that will never give in, not dropping him until the last few Km's doesn't reduce how good his ride was in any way IMO.

And he did manage to take the gap from something like 1:30 to around 4:00, so yeah, it was more then just a "good" ride.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Afrank said:
Ryder is the tenacious type that will never give in, not dropping him until the last few Km's doesn't reduce how good his ride was in any way IMO.

And he did manage to take the gap from something like 1:30 to around 4:00, so yeah, it was more then just a "good" ride.
Ok, yes it was a very good ride, but do you think that the chasing group chased to win given that Uran did not take one turn the whole 60km's, not even for couple of minutes?

Hugh
 
Aug 16, 2011
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hughmoore said:
Ok, yes it was a very good ride, but do you think that the chasing group chased to win given that Uran did not take one turn the whole 60km's, not even for couple of minutes?

Hugh
iirc they didn't have a ton of resources to organize a full on chase. But they were chasing and trying to limit their losses as much as possible, Kelderman for one went on the attack and tried to get a chase organized. But their chase did suffer from lack of resources.

Uran did take some turns, they weren't long of course. I think he just doesn't have the climbing form to do that much. Would have been a similar story if Quintana had been with them.
 
Jul 4, 2011
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I think this incident is being taken out of all proportion. Will it affected the overall outcome of the race as much as (arguably) Contador attacking Schleck when he had a mechanical in the TDF? No.

This should be regarded as a wake-up call and opportunity for the organizers to pull their fingers out of their azz and put together a coherent set of rules, regulations and procedures.
 

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