What exactly made Armstrong so strong?

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
therealtimshady said:
i agree that there may have been coverups. but there have been no announcements of positive tests (except the retrospective one on the 1999 samples which was quickly forgotten) and if so why no punishment particually as valverde , basso etc were punished for past crimes
When you have a coverup, you'll also get no positive tests.

When you have riders like Valverde and Basso being tossed under the bus, and riders like Armstrong being protected, a statement like the one below from McQuaid makes so much more sense:

“There are certain things we have to do…to continue to create stars and try hard to find another global superstar. We need to find one or two others who can communicate by their persona, their performances and the way they interact with the media to become international brand names. Because that’s what every sport needs to be a global sport.”
By protecting certain riders and allowing others to fall, speaks to an extreme impropriety happening at the UCI.
 
May 12, 2010
715
0
9,280
Granville57 said:
And before that, THIS one!

"Watched Bigger, Faster, Stronger yesterday. Highly recommend it to everyone."
about 20 hours ago via ÜberTwitter

He just can't help himself. What is he thinking?
WTF? That's crazy.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
0
0
therealtimshady said:
i agree that there may have been coverups. but there have been no announcements of positive tests (except the retrospective one on the 1999 samples which was quickly forgotten) and if so why no punishment particually as valverde , basso etc were punished for past crimes
Basso & Valverde were pursued and first sanctioned by CONI, not the UCI.

Again hard to be positive for substances that there was no test for and when you had advanced notice of testing and giving 'donations' to the UCI.
 
It should be noted that not testing positive was perfectly possible even if you weren't Armstrong and didn't have any (un)official clout. Most riders from that era managed just fine.

It's really not that strange that LA avoided testing positive.
 
Jul 6, 2010
2,340
0
0
hrotha said:
It should be noted that not testing positive was perfectly possible even if you weren't Armstrong and didn't have any (un)official clout. Most riders from that era managed just fine.

It's really not that strange that LA avoided testing positive.
Just thought that needed to be reiterated...
 
May 10, 2009
4,638
1
0
hrotha said:
It should be noted that not testing positive was perfectly possible even if you weren't Armstrong and didn't have any (un)official clout. Most riders from that era managed just fine.

It's really not that strange that LA avoided testing positive.
As a furtherance of this, it would generally be accepted by most sane people that Ullrich and Basso doped, yet it wasn't the positive test that caught them out obviously.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
This is why it's so damn hard to explain all this to total newbs. People generally assume that the governing body they're dealing with is not a completely corrupt organization.
 
Dec 14, 2010
154
0
0
BotanyBay said:
This is why it's so damn hard to explain all this to total newbs. People generally assume that the governing body they're dealing with is not a completely corrupt organization.
My eyes began to open in 2008. I saw all these same names appearing again and again in different roles and organizations within the realm of top level US cycling, but never realized what it could all really mean in terms of bending, or completely avoiding the rules.

Thank you all for stating it all so plainly.

Man, I was such a sucker for so many years, wrapped up in the myth of the hero's story, the "brave comeback from death's doorstep", and noble cause of "giving back" and "obligation of the cured". ('Cured' as in soaked in heavy brine, kept in the dark, and fed a smoke job for countless years, as it turns out.)
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
jimbob_in_co said:
My eyes began to open in 2008. I saw all these same names appearing again and again in different roles and organizations within the realm of top level US cycling, but never realized what it could all really mean in terms of bending, or completely avoiding the rules.

Thank you all for stating all so plainly.

Man, I was such a sucker for so many years, wrapped up in the myth of the hero's story, the "brave comeback from death's doorstep", and noble cause of "giving back" and "obligation of the cured". ('Cured' as in soaked in heavy brine, kept in the dark, and fed a smoke job for countless years, as it turns out.)
And that's why a new-comer to this forum finds in us, a bunch of cynical jerks. We used to believe that there was a distinct line between the good guys and the bad. After seeing years of data to the contrary, you end up with a thick callous on your skin. Sad, eh?
 
Jul 6, 2010
2,340
0
0
BotanyBay said:
And that's why a new-comer to this forum finds in us, a bunch of cynical jerks. We used to believe that there was a distinct line between the good guys and the bad. After seeing years of data to the contrary, you end up with a thick callous on your skin. Sad, eh?
Hey we could all be fanboys and true believers. Except then we'd all end up with callouses on our palms... and maybe our knees...
 
Aug 4, 2009
1,056
0
0
Berzin said:
A few questions before I begin-

1) Testicular cancer-after chemo treatments and removal of a testicle, what sort of testosterone levels can a normal, otherwise healthy male expect to produce?

Total testosterone in a healthy athleat is around 20nmol and 330-350 pmol free testosterone. WADA set limit of 25nmol it is possible to obtain these with replacement.

2) Do these individuals go back to living normal lives or do they have to take testosterone supplements for the rest of their lives?

Ounce testosterone replacement is started the body will not produce it naturaly so its for life

3) Can they produce enough sperm to have children? maybe but not reliable.

Armstrong has one testicle so they say as anyone seen proof of this as anyone seen him in the shower ??

If he had testicular cancer he is not producing Testosterone from his testicles but he may be getting some from adrenilin glands..
Ounce they start testosterone replacement all that stops .

Testosterone is not the wonder drug its made out to be for cyclists it helps recovery can make muscles stronger but side effects such as breathig difficultys stiffness in joints etc Loss of leg speed.
so something else is needed as well. what we dont know.
 
May 10, 2009
4,638
1
0
BotanyBay said:
And that's why a new-comer to this forum finds in us, a bunch of cynical jerks. We used to believe that there was a distinct line between the good guys and the bad. After seeing years of data to the contrary, you end up with a thick callous on your skin. Sad, eh?
But that's he funny thing....I've been a non believer for years and years, yet even I am shocked at times about the corruption that exists. The tip offs about the testing, the way Gusev was handed out to dry by Bruyneel etc. The way Darach McQuaid is brother of Pat, yet is the agent of some riders and is good friends with Lance, and was organiser of the TOI last year which gave Lance appearance money. Conflicts of interests left right and centre. To anyone who talks about Lance not testing positive....what motivation would the UCI have to suspend their money making machine?
 
Dec 14, 2010
154
0
0
BotanyBay said:
We used to believe that there was a distinct line between the good guys and the bad. After seeing years of data to the contrary, you end up with a thick callous on your skin. Sad, eh?
It's just like the rest of world. As my dad used to say, "There ain't no black and white, just varying shades of gray." Of course I never believed him when I was a kid.

I knew a lot of it stunk for a long time. I got my wife truly interested in the TdF just in time to witness the 1998 Festina disaster.

I just never realized all of we dedicated fans of cycling were always on the first floor of a two story outhouse.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
Digger said:
But that's he funny thing....I've been a non believer for years and years, yet even I am shocked at times about the corruption that exists.
Me too. I used to just think that the UCI was merely inept, or rather, more like the enabling mother of an alcoholic son, sweeping everything under the rug just to keep the family together.



I couldn't even fathom that the UCI was perhaps far more than an enabler, but rather an architect of this.

 
Dec 14, 2010
154
0
0
JMBeaushrimp said:
Hey we could all be fanboys and true believers. Except then we'd all end up with callouses on our palms... and maybe our knees...
JMB, I think my head would have eventually done this...
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
0
0
Digger said:
But that's he funny thing....I've been a non believer for years and years, yet even I am shocked at times about the corruption that exists. The tip offs about the testing, the way Gusev was handed out to dry by Bruyneel etc. The way Darach McQuaid is brother of Pat, yet is the agent of some riders and is good friends with Lance, and was organiser of the TOI last year which gave Lance appearance money. Conflicts of interests left right and centre. To anyone who talks about Lance not testing positive....what motivation would the UCI have to suspend their money making machine?
Not to add to your woes but:
Andrew McQuaid is the riders agent, he is Pats son.
Darach is Pats brother who is the race organizer - he is currently in the US hoping to secure it as a Worlds venue.
 
Dec 17, 2010
123
0
0
What exactly made Armstrong So Strong. 7 Tour titles in a row.

1- Use of performance enhancing drugs such as Epo.
2- Banned Recovery agents such as Synthetic Testosterone.
3- Autologous blood transfusion's.
4- Access to unclassified performance enhancing drugs.
5- Protection from the UCI. ( ALLEGED COVERUPS )
6- Well funded teams that had the money to hire the best doctors, coaches ect.
7- All the best Bikes and training equipment Money could buy.
8- His association with the infamous Dr. Michele Ferrari.
9- His obsession with winning the Tour.
10- Basing his entire season around winning the Tour De France.
11- The art of the peak.
12- Team's of talented rider's that participated in institutionalized doping programmes.
13- Talent.
14- Hunger.
15- Determination.
16- Hard Training.
17- Extremely meticulous and obsessional preparation.
18- Dedication.
19- Never say die attitude.
20- Belief.
21- Confidence.
22- An incredible resolve to withstand extreme pain thresholds.
23- Luck.
24- After beating cancer a stronger belief in himself than pre-cancer.
25- Driven inside with a burning passion, feeling like a messiah for each and every cancer victim so as to inspire and give them belief with each and every one of his victories.
26- Extreme Egotism.
27- An unrelenting Desire to Win.
28- Fear of failure.
29- A burning desire to create a fallacious legendary sporting legacy.
30- But most of all a cocktail mix of illegal pharmaceutical performance enhancing drugs, recovery agents.
And superior Knowledge on how to mask potentially positive Drug Tests.

I think that says about it all really. But I am Sure some one else has something to add.
 
May 10, 2009
4,638
1
0
Dr. Maserati said:
Not to add to your woes but:
Andrew McQuaid is the riders agent, he is Pats son.Darach is Pats brother who is the race organizer - he is currently in the US hoping to secure it as a Worlds venue.
Cheers Dr. :)
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
0
0
Monte Zoncolon said:
What exactly made Armstrong So Strong. 7 Tour titles in a row.

<snipped for brevity>
I think that says about it all really. But I am Sure some one else has something to add.
Wow, great post - I would agree with everything on it but I would add how he ruthlessly bullied his detractors - not just quieten them but ruin their livelihoods.

AngusW said:
LA turned pro in August 1992, just after the Barcelona Olympic games.
Doh, and I should know that as it was the first time I met him.
 
Oct 25, 2010
3,049
2
0
Monte Zoncolon said:
22- An incredible resolve to withstand extreme pain thresholds.
I take issue with this. When you're an organism that's been modified to increase your power output in such a manner as has been done here, you're not likely to reach a pain threshold that's more unique than any other athlete at this level.

Pain is directly tied to your limits. If you've modified the limits in an upward fashion, it's not a very fair comparison. There's nothing incredible here.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
masking_agent The Clinic 2

ASK THE COMMUNITY