What exactly made Armstrong so strong?

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Aug 8, 2009
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Monte Zoncolon said:
...I think that says about it all really. But I am Sure some one else has something to add.
32 - brains

There were occasionally times when Armstrong came up with a winning strategy that would clearly have worked even if he had no other advantage.

For example... there are a few leaders killing themselves to stay ahead. There is a chase group killing themselves to stay in contact. And Lance just sits on the back of the chase group relaxing, waiting for his moment. I have no idea why the other guys let him get away with stuff like that, but it was smart racing.
 
BotanyBay said:
I take issue with this. When you're an organism that's been modified to increase your power output in such a manner as has been done here, you're not likely to reach a pain threshold that's more unique than any other athlete at this level.

Pain is directly tied to your limits. If you've modified the limits in an upward fashion, it's not a very fair comparison. There's nothing incredible here.
There are parts of his personality and his riding style that have been blown out of proportion because of this.

What comes to mind are those commercials of him riding the mountains on a cold and rainy day, with Bruyneel in tow and how amazed he was that Armstrong decided to stay on the bike even though the weather got foul.

The American public ate this up like chum, but it wasn't like other riders weren't out there doing the exact same thing-they just didn't have a publicity caravan behind them to record it.

Because in Europe it's a given that bike riders suffer. It's part of the culture and its' implicitly understood. Americans think riding a bike is easy, because they feel the Euros don't have the stomach Americans do for hard work.
 
Dec 17, 2010
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[/QUOTE]

That's not a Gay Pride March by any chance!! > Lance the great makes it seven "STRAIGHT" !! :eek: With Matthew Mc Conaughey waiting in the wings !! :D
 
Dec 17, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
I take issue with this. When you're an organism that's been modified to increase your power output in such a manner as has been done here, you're not likely to reach a pain threshold that's more unique than any other athlete at this level.

Pain is directly tied to your limits. If you've modified the limits in an upward fashion, it's not a very fair comparison. There's nothing incredible here.
It is a required attribute for any endurance Athlete to have a high pain threshold or lets call it an ability to endure pain while at Your lactate threshold for extended periods of time. It is not a natural ability. It is what can make the difference between winning and losing. Some athletes have a greater tolerance for pain more so than others. It all comes down to how much You are willing to suffer in order to succeed.
 
Jun 13, 2010
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biopass said:
Ignorance is a bless.
They look like Mormon Missionaries . . . I guess if you are stupid enough to drink Joseph Smith's Cool-Aid, you are stupid enough to drink Pharmastrong's Cool-Aid, it just comes in a different artificial flavor.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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theswordsman said:
Carmichael has always claimed to have been Lance's coach the whole time... But if Ferrari was also a "coach." Is there a relationship between Carmichael and Ferrari...?
Dr. Maserati said:
I would liken it to a racecar - Carmichael was the mechanic, Ferrari the engineer....
Maxiton said:
I suspect the reality is that Carmichael had little-to-nothing to do with Armstrong's training during the Tour wins (other than flunky type duties).
I always got a kick out of the answers to that very question. From Lance Armstrong's War:

"Ferrari's brilliant, and I think there's no doubt that Lance listens to him carefully. On the tour, I can say that Carmichael's just not that involved. I think he's busy with TV stuff." -Jeff Spencer (Chiropractor)

"That is a very interesting question. A lot of people would say that is the question." -Jonathan Vaughters

And one of my favorites:
"Come on. You've met them both. Who would you listen to?" -Floyd Landis
 
Good list, but please consider my edits - but start with a new #1: FOR THE MONEY.

Also, a complementary list of 20 items is found here:

http://www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/classic.htm

Monte Zoncolon said:
What exactly made Armstrong So Strong. 7 Tour titles in a row.

1- Use of performance enhancing drugs such as Epo.
2- Banned Recovery agents such as Synthetic Testosterone.
3- Autologous blood transfusion's.
4- Access to unclassified performance enhancing drugs.
5- Protection from the UCI. ( ALLEGED COVERUPS )

Evidence of 2010 coverups is provided at 2010 Tour WADA IO Report. Given that there actually were WADA observers present, what would it have been like without them - as in during the seven wins?:

there were a number of riders of significance who took part in the Tour who had either not been tested during the Pre-Tour period or who had only been tested once

During the Tour, a number of riders demonstrating suspicious profiles and/or showing significantly impressive performances at the Tour were tested on surprisingly few occasions and for three riders of interest did not provide a blood sample for the purposes of anti-doping in the whole Tour
...
A rider identified as having a priority index of eight (with ten being the highest and most at risk of doping) was tested only once
...
For a rider identified as having a priority index of ten, no blood samples were collected following the Laboratory recommendations after interpretation of blood passport data from the first week of the Tour, with only urine being collected and no blood as recommended by the Laboratory. Further, a recommendation to target test the rider for EPO took seven days to be executed.
...
A rider identified as having a priority index of ten was not tested for either urine or blood from 3 April to the start of the Tour
==> Highest priority and no testing for three months!!!
...
For a rider identified as having a priority index of eight, who was recommended to be target tested for EPO by the Laboratory, the UCI did not target test the rider and in addition a sample collected five days later was not analysed for EPO. Interestingly in this case collection of follow-up samples from this rider was initiated by the AFLD
...
It is noted however that only 70% of the UCI’s analysis were for EPO, and it was outlined that the budget was the main constraint for not doing more EPO testing. Moreover, only a reasonably small number of blood samples were collected for analysis for CERA, HBOC or HBT
...
There are also new substances and/or methods that can now be detected or suspected, yet the UCI only sent ten target test samples to the WADA-Accredited Laboratory of the German Sports University, Cologne, for additional analysis for new substances and/or methods
(i.e. How they actually caught Contador - an explicit WADA encouraged activity)
6- Well funded teams that had the money to hire the best doctors, coaches ect.
7- All the best Bikes and training equipment Money could buy.

The helmet and skin suit, yes. The rest of it, not so much. (I have the data)*

8- His association with the infamous Dr. Michele Ferrari.
9- His obsession with winning the Tour.

10- Basing his entire season around winning the Tour De France.

Was this to time the Tour, or to hide better?

11- The art of the peak.

Periodization has been around since at least the 1970s. Carmichael learned from my coach (and cited him in the book). Nothing new here for Lance.

12- Team's of talented rider's that participated in institutionalized doping programmes.

13-22, 24, 25. 27, 28 - Preparation, dedication, confidence, pain threshold, etc.

= Mythology

23- Luck.

An amazing factor with respect to the complete lack of serious crashes.

26- Extreme Egotism.

29- A burning desire to create a fallacious legendary sporting legacy.
30- But most of all a cocktail mix of illegal pharmaceutical performance enhancing drugs, recovery agents.

And superior Knowledge on how to mask potentially positive Drug Tests.

I think that says about it all really. But I am Sure some one else has something to add.
*Edit to add: Data also suggests that Ullrich actually had a better (more aero) TT position.

Dave.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Berzin said:
There are parts of his personality and his riding style that have been blown out of proportion because of this.

What comes to mind are those commercials of him riding the mountains on a cold and rainy day, with Bruyneel in tow and how amazed he was that Armstrong decided to stay on the bike even though the weather got foul.

The American public ate this up like chum, but it wasn't like other riders weren't out there doing the exact same thing-they just didn't have a publicity caravan behind them to record it.

Because in Europe it's a given that bike riders suffer. It's part of the culture and its' implicitly understood. Americans think riding a bike is easy, because they feel the Euros don't have the stomach Americans do for hard work.
No, Americans just think that doing really hard work is somehow heroic. We like to have a hero to worship. Lance "fits the suit":



Interesting that Nike actually paid Lance to help him mock those who criticized his drug use. But there willl always be a record of their complicity:



http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1850019/lance_armstrong_nike_what_are_you_on/
 
Oct 25, 2010
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sartain said:
They look like Mormon Missionaries . . . I guess if you are stupid enough to drink Joseph Smith's Cool-Aid, you are stupid enough to drink Pharmastrong's Cool-Aid, it just comes in a different artificial flavor.
I didn't choose the photo for the religious mockery, but for the Lance fanboyism. If they happen to be bike-riding Mormon missionaries, so be it.

 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
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Monte Zoncolon said:
What exactly made Armstrong So Strong. 7 Tour titles in a row.

1- Use of performance enhancing drugs such as Epo.
2- Banned Recovery agents such as Synthetic Testosterone.
3- Autologous blood transfusion's.
4- Access to unclassified performance enhancing drugs.
5- Protection from the UCI. ( ALLEGED COVERUPS )
6- Well funded teams that had the money to hire the best doctors, coaches ect.
7- All the best Bikes and training equipment Money could buy.
8- His association with the infamous Dr. Michele Ferrari.
9- His obsession with winning the Tour.
10- Basing his entire season around winning the Tour De France.
11- The art of the peak.
12- Team's of talented rider's that participated in institutionalized doping programmes.
13- Talent.
14- Hunger.
15- Determination.
16- Hard Training.
17- Extremely meticulous and obsessional preparation.
18- Dedication.
19- Never say die attitude.
20- Belief.
21- Confidence.
22- An incredible resolve to withstand extreme pain thresholds.
23- Luck.
24- After beating cancer a stronger belief in himself than pre-cancer.
25- Driven inside with a burning passion, feeling like a messiah for each and every cancer victim so as to inspire and give them belief with each and every one of his victories.
26- Extreme Egotism.
27- An unrelenting Desire to Win.
28- Fear of failure.
29- A burning desire to create a fallacious legendary sporting legacy.
30- But most of all a cocktail mix of illegal pharmaceutical performance enhancing drugs, recovery agents.
And superior Knowledge on how to mask potentially positive Drug Tests.

I think that says about it all really. But I am Sure some one else has something to add.
Wonderful list of attributes. Here are a few that you missed, some overlaps too.
Honestly, we will never see another rider win 7 TdF's in a row. Never....

1) Post Cancer Mind-Body Transformation
2) Lazer-Like Focus on the TdF
3) His Team Mates
4) Training Training Training Training
5) Training at Altitude
6) EPO/Blood Doping
7)Tactical Genius for a DS
8) Focus on Diet, Weighing his Food, Targeted Weight Loss
9) Higher Cadence
10) Sleeping in a Tent
11) Race Course Recons
12) Assos Chamois Creme
13) Inspiration & Motivation from the Fan's
14) High Pain Threshold
15) Mental Tenacity
16) Savvy Businessman ie bribes and "politics"
17) Wind tunnel testing
18) Best Wheelsets
19) Aero Dimples on his shorts
20) Support from his families.
21) Completely selfish, self absorbed, dedicated, complete determination to win,24-7
22) Sleeps like a baby without anxiety
23) ETC
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
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Polish said:
Wonderful list of attributes. Here are a few that you missed, some overlaps too.
Honestly, we will never see another rider win 7 TdF's in a row. Never....

1) Post Cancer Mind-Body Transformation
2) Lazer-Like Focus on the TdF
3) His Team Mates
4) Training Training Training Training
5) Training at Altitude
6) EPO/Blood Doping
7)Tactical Genius for a DS
8) Focus on Diet, Weighing his Food, Targeted Weight Loss
9) Higher Cadence
10) Sleeping in a Tent
11) Race Course Recons
12) Assos Chamois Creme
13) Inspiration & Motivation from the Fan's
14) High Pain Threshold
15) Mental Tenacity
16) Savvy Businessman ie bribes and "politics"
17) Wind tunnel testing
18) Best Wheelsets
19) Aero Dimples on his shorts
20) Support from his families.
21) Completely selfish, self absorbed, dedicated, complete determination to win,24-7
22) ETC
#23 Lance sleeps like baby,no anxiety.(I know goes with lazer-like focus)

Vladamir Putan admires Lance!
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
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flicker said:
#23 Lance sleeps like baby,no anxiety.(I know goes with lazer-like focus)

Vladamir Putan admires Lance!
I think "sleeps like a baby" is different from a "lazer-like focus".
Unless Lance is dreaming of winning the Tour....

So thanks, I will add to the list..
 
Scott SoCal said:
Yep. I think LA may have come back to the sport (having just dodged what, at the time, was a near certain death sentence) not wanting to risk his health as he did before with PED use. He found out very quickly he was not competitive without dope and went home intending on retirement.

Something happened, a decision was made, the doping programme perfected...

There is no way he should have been so strong at the '98 Veulta...

IMO, this may have been the last time LA behaved like a normal human being. Once the decision was taken, the total focus on racing, corruption, doping and winning, he sold his soul.
i believe this is the correct scenario.

FWIW -- i suggested this exact explanation a few years back to someone who would have been in the know at the time and they confirmed that i was very much on the right track.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Big Doopie said:
i believe this is the correct scenario.

FWIW -- i suggested this exact explanation a few years back to someone who would have been in the know at the time and they confirmed that i was very much on the right track.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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sashimono said:
32 - brains

There were occasionally times when Armstrong came up with a winning strategy that would clearly have worked even if he had no other advantage.

For example... there are a few leaders killing themselves to stay ahead. There is a chase group killing themselves to stay in contact. And Lance just sits on the back of the chase group relaxing, waiting for his moment. I have no idea why the other guys let him get away with stuff like that, but it was smart racing.
Yes, Lance invented drafting.
 
Aug 16, 2009
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why did lance win?



Because he is better than you.


Deal with it.




EDIT: Holy ****. I just watched the clip in my signiture! That guy is awesome. Did you see how fast he pedals, could that have something to do with it?
 
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