What if Contador gets the Giro taken away. Would you still see him as the winner.

[Francois the Postman]

Exactly, the whole competition is about fairplay. If someone cheats, you automatically award the guy who was best after him the win if he wasn't breaking the rules. That's how it goes.

That assumes you know for a fact that #2 didn't break the same rules. In reality, #2 will not have been exposed to the same doping tests.

It can only be fair play if #2 passes the exact same tests that #1 failed. Otherwise it's potentially comparing rotten apples with rotten pears, and crowning #2 for not being an apple.

 

[spalco]

I think it's crap that he will have wins taken away because of what happened in July 2010. It's not his problem that the judgement process takes forever. If he hasn't failed any tests during this current season, then all of his performances should be recognized as being legitimate. He should only have to give up his 2010 TdF title.

It's his problem that he appealed instead of taking the punishment he deserved (disclaimer: "supposedly deserved", although imo that distinction is nonsense in this context...)

 

[GoAndyGo]

I look at it as a DQ and the second racer is the winner of the race. The second place man will never have the memories of holding the trophy or the pictures of him standing on the top tier of the podium to remember though. It is the sad part of the sport and alot of other sports.

To me Oscar Pereiro is the 2006 TDF winner and not Landis. (Not to hijack the thread just a similiar comparison).

 

[luckyboy]

I'm not a Conti fan or hater, but I would probably prefer to see him racing than suspended. Don't really want to see Andy get a Tour win, let alone two in a row.

Also I think it would be sad for a pretty dominant display of cycling like this Giro to be annulled.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Didn't mean to offend anyone. I rarely go to the Armstrong subforum.

Don't worry, I'm not offended. Just a bit amused by the views you were ascribing to me. I'm fully aware that doping is highly prevalent across professional sports.

 

[Publicus]

Unless he's found to have been **ping prior to or during the Giro, then I say he will always be the winner, since he was stripped not for his actions at this particular event, but at a prior one. He is legitimately racing here because he was cleared, not because he was avoiding facing the music (a la Valverde), so I don't much stock in the argument that he SHOULDN'T be here.

Just my opinion...

 

[Captain_Cavman]

have to agree
also had a good chuckle at the booing on Zoncalon and his surprise at it

I'm sure scarponi wouldn't have been as smashed because he'd have never gone into the red chasing contador on etna...

Good point. The second best rider so far has been Scarponi. The problem is that he's been racing Contador and paying dearly for not being in the same class. Nibali who looks as though he might well end up being the winner of the 2011 Giro hasn't been.

And yes, the second place rider should inherit the win and the place in history. That Contador is here in such dominant form is spoiling what could be a fantastic race and I hope that the UCI start to take a stand against riders and their federations who make this sort of thing happen.

 

[zapata]

I'm not a Conti fan or hater, but I would probably prefer to see him racing than suspended. Don't really want to see Andy get a Tour win, let alone two in a row.

Also I think it would be sad for a pretty dominant display of cycling like this Giro to be annulled.

That's pretty much my feelings as well. I'm not exactly a fan of Contador, but I have much respect for him as the greatest stageracer today. Dope or not, he's the biggest talent in a long time. I'd rather see Nibali win the giro, but only if he was able to do it on the road. Being awarded the win months later is nothing. I hope Contador is cleared, because I'm tired of the scandals, and because I don't want a great race like this Giro to be rendered meaningless.

 

[killswitch]

Don't worry, I'm not offended. Just a bit amused by the views you were ascribing to me. I'm fully aware that doping is highly prevalent across professional sports.

The problem (in cycling) could be minimized eg more efficient testing to level the playing field, establishing new governing cycling body, getting rid of former dopers working as team managers, etc...

 

[boomcie]

...
I hope Contador is cleared, because I'm tired of the scandals, and because I don't want a great race like this Giro to be rendered meaningless.

Wow. Pretty big contradiction there.
How is Contador being cleared not a scandal?

 

[zapata]

Wow. Pretty big contradiction there.
How is Contador being cleared not a scandal?

If he's cleared because he's demonstrably clean, there's no scandal. Then again, he's obviously not clean..I don't know, I'm just so tired of the doping talk.

 

[180mmCrank]

If he completes the course in the fastest time he's the GC winner. I don't have a problem with that. If some court takes that away then so be it but he would still be the winner in my eyes.

I know not everyone is able to do this but I dont find it difficult to separate the scandals from watching the race in the moment. Contador is the best on the road right now and I am happy to enjoy watching him dominate. He is good at what he does and the parcours suits his capabilities.


I know others find it boring watching one guy dominate - I have always found watching those that are good at what do inspiring - so not boring at all.

 

[Ryaguas]

I hope that the UCI start to take a stand against riders and their federations who make this sort of thing happen.

This is stupid... You are saying that the Federations are worthless and shouldnt exist...
That You didnt like the resolution absolving Contador? Suck it...
If Andrew tested positives and his federation absolved him I wouldn't like it but I would have to suck it...

Some post here says that Alberto is guilty... He was cleared from the charges ergo He is innocent... That you dont trust RFEC? Suck it... He was cleared... He's riding right now as an Innocent man... In CAS He doesnt have to prove that He's innocent is the WADA and UCI that have to prove that He's guilty... BTW Alberto is not appealing the decision is UCI and WADA who are appealing, So is not his fault to be riding right now...

Back in the topic...
The races are won in the road... You finished 1st? You are the 1st...
If The one who can't be named get stripped from all his TDF then there was no winner... I can't see Ullrich, Beloki, Basso, Kloden, etc, has the winners... I prefer to leave the space in blank and put an "*" on it...

 

[luckyboy]

Something I've never really thought about, but if his results are annulled what would happen to the money he has won? Would be a tough task reassigning it all.

 

[hfer07]

If he completes the course in the fastest time he's the GC winner. I don't have a problem with that. If some court takes that away then so be it but he would still be the winner in my eyes.

+1000
When a rider gets stripped of the title earned on the road by a court is simply wrong-if the authorities involved in his ruling are watching this race-they better think & study harder what is going to be the outcome in July. If he wasn't eligible to ride this Giro due to his on going trial- he should have been told & stopped from racing in it in the first place.

I'll see him as a winner still-but sadly the history records aren't going to recognize him at all.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

I would actually be watching the Giro if Contador was properly banned by now... not fun watching people race for 2nd place.. in fact I think no one was even trying to race Contador, hoping he will simply be banned in a month. no point in killing yourself trying to keep up with a cheater, when you can get your victory handed to you after the legal process is complete.. boring boring race.

 

[luckyboy]

I doubt any of the others guys 'challenging' him aren't doing what he does.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I voted option two.

P.S.: @ Hitch; No way this thing will not make it to the "Armstrong-Subforum"

 

[jaylew]

He shouldn't be the winner either, cause in my book he's not allowed to ride atm.

Btw. I agree that Contador shouldn't have been allowed to start in the Giro,

I don't really get this, though I completely understand if you disagree with the verdict. He wasn't allowed to ride while the case was going on, but you can't keep someone from riding once they've been cleared just as you don't keep someone behind bars once they've been acquitted.

What logic? I'm not even trying to make a case. Whether you think of someone who was later banned as a gt winner or not is mostly an emotional affair, you can make up some rules about what should be the case, but that doesn't mean that's how you actually think about it.

I think I might agree with you.

 

[Califootman]

Contador is an innocent man... for the time being, at least. He should be treated as such. He has been tried and acquitted. Whether or not you agree with the RFEC's verdict, you can't continue to penalize him for it.

The comparison to the Landis situation is not valid. Landis was stripped of the title he won at the event during which he tested positive. I don't think anyone would argue that Contador would NOT get to keep his 2010 TdF title. But the 2011 Giro, which he is competing at after being cleared of previous charges, will be his if he wins.

The comparison to Valverde's case is also not entirely valid. Valverde was competing while appealing a GUILTY verdict. In that case he was only continuing to compete on the technicality of the appeal, so if the ruling was upheld the ban would be retroactive and anything he won in the interim could be taken away.

My opinion: If CAS finds Contador guilty, the ban should go into effect as of the date of the CAS verdict, and Contador should be able to keep any titles he has won (other than the 2010 Tour, of course). Contador should be able to bargain for any "time served" before he was acquitted by the RFEC.

Bottom line: As of this date, Contador is an innocent man. As far as we know, he has competed fairly since that finding of innocence and should not be penalized after the fact when (if?) CAS overturns the verdict.

 

[python]

i am not afraid to say what seems very difficult for the majority,

I DONT KNOW HOW TO VOTE GIVEN THE 2 OPTIONS...about a future event to happen yet.

when cas's decision is passed and i have a chance to read the reasoning, regardless of the eventual verdict, only then i feel i will have all facts to make my own decision if contador was (rather than will be) a true winner.

as it is i don't have those facts yet..

 

[boomcie]

I don't really get this, though I completely understand if you disagree with the verdict. He wasn't allowed to ride while the case was going on, but you can't keep someone from riding once they've been cleared just as you don't keep someone behind bars once they've been acquitted..

Lanark said something about GC winners and it being an emotional affair that you agreed with.
For me it's also an emotional affair. I feel like Contador shouldn't be allowed to race and in some ways I'm convinced he shouldn't be (rationally, that is).

The Spanish court's decision was a farce. I don't agree with it. Hence Contador shouldn't be racing (in my book).

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

This is the problem, if ac gets done and loses his title, the 2nd place rider should feel a little cheated. It will basically taint this year's Giro, and that imo reflects badly on the UCI. If he does lose his title, they should have never let him ride.

 

[thirteen]

i am consistent in my thinking -- whoever crosses the line at the end of a race is the winner. period. no matter what the political powers in cycling say, i know who won.

if i was to chose a second choice, it would be "no winner" with an asterisk by the actual winners name, rather than total removal.

the guy who came in second in second will never be the winner, imo, even if it is a forgone conclusion before the race (as people seem to think is the case for this race).

(by this logic, in my mind, one of AC's Tour wins is not truly a victory -- Rasmussen had that one pretty much sewn up and i resented them pulling him out.)

this is not me being pro-doping -- it is me being anti-hypocrosy. and i feel this way no matter who it is. the guy who crossed the line is the winner to me, no matter what the history books may say.

 

[peloton]

This is the problem, if ac gets done and loses his title, the 2nd place rider should feel a little cheated. It will basically taint this year's Giro, and that imo reflects badly on the UCI. If he does lose his title, they should have never let him ride.

Once the Spanish federation cleared him, the UCI's hands were tied, the only person who could stop him from racing until the CAS verdict was Riis...