What should Sky do next?

[L'arriviste]

... But it seems Brits like Boardman and Wiggins don't have the aggression needed to attack a 1 day race instead of following wheels in a GT to try to reach the podium ...

Is it aggression or is it a matter of focus? After tunnel-visioning talented lads into effective trackies, the only next step for Britain's (excellent) track programme is to graduate them as road TTers and more recently sprinters.

It's an old-school prejudice that I nurse, but I just can't quite connect to a rider who can only win TTs or sprints. Hence Boardman, DMillar, Wiggins and, so far, Cavendish.

Boardman used to win RRs and hill-climb championships with Manchester Wheelers, but the Olympics changed him into a proper boardman. Meanwhile Brits who didn't follow that route - RMillar, Yates, Wegelius, DLloyd are either past masters or present domestiques.

Cavendish may yet surprise us by turning into a Classics hardman when he starts slowing down. But while I'm waiting, I still hope fervently that Team Sky can act as a bridge for younger riders to become more rounded performers.

 

[LiboHC]

Potential GC rider?
I think Vincenzo Nibali, can be good GC rider for Sky or BMC for the future, for sure he will be podium contender for all GTs for the next 5 yrs.
he was 3rd in last Giro, even he was called at last minute to replace Pellizzotti!

 

[theyoungest]

One guy they could perhaps try to get is Linus Gerdemann. He'll likely be looking for a new home and he already knows alot of the riders since his time at columbia.

Replace one overrated GT rider with another? Nice one.

 

[euanli]

They need to look into creating proper week long races in the UK. Likes of the Scottish Milk Race. There is too much focus on Crits and TTing in the UK. The guys who are better road racers from the UK are the ones who leave and don't get stuck into that scene. Perhaps creating it will reveal more talent.

 

[ttrider]

Ive got nothing against Ciolek and Chicchi = Damn good riders. But are they any better than Henderson/ Sutton/ Downing...? Um NO theyre not.

Your seriously stupid if you think that sutton and downing are better than Chichi and Ciolek

Chichi is one of the quickest in the peloton he just lacks opportunities (see california one of his few opportunities)
Ciolek just came second to an inform Cav!

Downing is so bad he is way out of his depth sutton and henderson are not in this class of sprinter either! IDIOT

 

[Roland Rat]

They need to look into creating proper week long races in the UK. Likes of the Scottish Milk Race. There is too much focus on Crits and TTing in the UK. The guys who are better road racers from the UK are the ones who leave and don't get stuck into that scene. Perhaps creating it will reveal more talent.

Not much chance of that, the situation is just getting worse. Councils and the Police are making it very difficult to hold races on the roads and we are being forced into more and more crits. The death knell has been ringing for the Premier Calendar ever since the Tour of the Peak got cancelled, and is now completely overshadowed by the Tour Series. Give it a few years and there'll be barely any top class road races held, and the domestic pro's will be forced to become crit hounds. They pretty much are already.

 

[Roland Rat]

Downing is so bad he is way out of his depth sutton and henderson are not in this class of sprinter either! IDIOT

Oh the irony of that last word.

If you think Downing is out of his depth I suggest you revisit January - May of this season, and particularly the Criterium International. I'd assume he's having a break at the moment before kicking on again August - October.

 

[L'arriviste]

Oh the irony of that last word.

If you think Downing is out of his depth I suggest you revisit January - May of this season, and particularly the Criterium International. I'd assume he's having a break at the moment before kicking on again August - October.

I think Downing doesn't get enough opportunities for us to judge either way. I understand why, of course, but I would have liked to see him up there for himself a bit more. I still don't know how good he is in his new environment.

 

[sublimit]

Downing has had a good season and has mainly been doing lead-out duties so its unfair to say he's out of his depth. He probably doesnt have the same kick as Chichi, Ciolek but he's a different type of rider.

 

[auscyclefan94]

What did they do? They did a pretty good job of protecting their man at least up until that final climb. What didn't they do? Blow their own man up. I fancy thnigs are getting a little desperate when the fans of some self-proclaimed uber team are bashing a journeyman team like BMC.

He was going to blow up anyway

I think a bigger question is what are BMC going to do next. In fact, what did they do last?

No, your guys have the team with much more bigger name riders who have stronger riders in the mountains and wiggo not winning any thing at all this season and so wiggo going very bad in the tour from expectations, so the bigger question is what is sky going to do? They have not being very good at all, their tatics and attitudes have been very questionable especially towards riders on others throughout the season so I would say they have been very dissapointing.

 

[taiwan]

Edvald Boasson Hagen should ride for the green jersey.

 

[auscyclefan94]

wiggins is a way bigger threat...he could tt mins off the top gc guys..just look at evans last year trying the samething,they don't like top riders rideing into form,
wiggins showed last year he is no bunny,he might come good in the last week of rideing they ride names down not how far they are behind in the gc

yeah...

The Brits with their stiff upper lips are better at handling the suffering of the Tour de France than those wine drinking, cheese eating frenchies. Plus we know from Piltdown Man that England is the birthplace of humanity, so there is more genetic variation that can produce an outlier with TdF winning capabilities. The fact that there has not been one yet is due to concentration on darts and cricket rather than lack of cycling ability.

Hilarious...but sadly for them true!

Disagree strongly. Cavendish at sky would do more damage than good. Bad move, first thing that would happen is EbH leaves.

Then we could have more laughs at Sky with Cav there. The infights with Wiggo and Cav would be a good talking point of the CNF!

 

[ingsve]

Replace one overrated GT rider with another? Nice one.

I wasn't thinking of Gerdemann as someone to lead in GTs but rather to be an ardennes guy that can help in the GTs when a real leader has emerged.

 

[R.0.t.O]

They need to look into creating proper week long races in the UK. Likes of the Scottish Milk Race. There is too much focus on Crits and TTing in the UK. The guys who are better road racers from the UK are the ones who leave and don't get stuck into that scene. Perhaps creating it will reveal more talent.

That will probably never happen. Even the Tour of Britain will probably finish next year (the money for the stages comes from the Regional Development Agencies, which the new government has announced are getting the chop). The focus isn't really on Crits and TT's though - it's all on the track. UK TT's are full of veterans and club riders, there might be the odd talented junior there but they get picked up by the track programme. If you're a talented kid that misses the track programme you need to get yourself over to Holland or France - but that's the same for kid from almost every country in the world.

Wiggins has allowed Sky to give it a fully hyped build-up to the Tour and build interest in the team. They couldn't have done that with Lövkvist even though they're similarly talented riders. Wiggins has given the team a lot of exposure as their poster boy in the UK.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh the irony of that last word.

If you think Downing is out of his depth I suggest you revisit January - May of this season, and particularly the Criterium International. I'd assume he's having a break at the moment before kicking on again August - October.

Downing has had a good season and has mainly been doing lead-out duties so its unfair to say he's out of his depth. He probably doesnt have the same kick as Chichi, Ciolek but he's a different type of rider.

Your seriously stupid if you think that sutton and downing are better than Chichi and Ciolek

Chichi is one of the quickest in the peloton he just lacks opportunities (see california one of his few opportunities)
Ciolek just came second to an inform Cav!

Downing is so bad he is way out of his depth sutton and henderson are not in this class of sprinter either! IDIOT

Downing out of his depth? For me Russ has been one of the best performers for Sky this year.

In australia where CJ and Henderson were the (Obvious) focus he was a trojan. He spent all stage doing bottle carrying duties and then put in absolute monster leadouts, his leadout in the cancer classic destroyed the field. In Qatar he did the same, and was still (just) in the lead 6 riders that stormed the TTT. In the race where he was given his chance to lead the team (criterium international) he won, In the race where Ben Swift was given the team leader spot, he led Ben to overall gc victory. Him and Henderson absolutely blitzed the entire field finishing 1-2 in Ster Elektrotoer.

Downing overrated my @rse. If anything he is underrated. He probably came into the season a little unsure of wether he had the quality. He has undoubtedly proved it. One of the high points for sky this season for me. (yes im biased)

 

[riobonito92]

So the plan is to put all the young talent on the track and then turn them into GT contenders later in life?

Apart from sprinters, is there a single case of this strategy working successfully?

Surely a better route would be BMX-MTB-Road?

 

[sublimit]

yes, in the Ster Electro Downing lead out Henderson and blew the peleton out and then jumped back on and soft peddled for second position.
He could of won that race standing on his head but obviously Hendo was the go-to rider in that one.

a rider like Chicci would be a good addition to Sky though and Brailsford could do worse than getting him on board. He's obviously done well at the Tour of Britain so he will be very familiar with DB I suspect.

 

[Superbagneres]

I have never believed that Brailsford genuinely believes Wiggins can win the Tour. Sky is all about whether Brailsford can turn the first rider he lined up - Peter Kennaugh - into a GT winner. It may never happen, but if it does it won't be for a few years yet, and that is why Wiggins is so important - a household name in the UK who can be marketed as a big white hope for a few years to keep the English-speaking public amused while we see how Kennaugh develops without too much expectation. If Wiggins was really their genuine propsect they would have made sure they had signed him from the outset rather than fannying around in November or whenever it was. And I suspect that if Brailsford is honest he would admit that it was actually a bit of a pain in the **** for him just quite how highly Wiggins finished in the Tour last year.

But days like yesterday serve as a much-needed reality check for Sky and British Cycling. It is a very crowded field out there, and it is possible to get to a very high standard indeed, only to find that there are 15 or so people on the planet who are as good or better and you are "only" in the top 20 of a GT.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Is it aggression or is it a matter of focus? After tunnel-visioning talented lads into effective trackies, the only next step for Britain's (excellent) track programme is to graduate them as road TTers and more recently sprinters.

It's an old-school prejudice that I nurse, but I just can't quite connect to a rider who can only win TTs or sprints. Hence Boardman, DMillar, Wiggins and, so far, Cavendish.

Boardman used to win RRs and hill-climb championships with Manchester Wheelers, but the Olympics changed him into a proper boardman. Meanwhile Brits who didn't follow that route - RMillar, Yates, Wegelius, DLloyd are either past masters or present domestiques.

Cavendish may yet surprise us by turning into a Classics hardman when he starts slowing down. But while I'm waiting, I still hope fervently that Team Sky can act as a bridge for younger riders to become more rounded performers.

*This*

British cycling culture revolves around the track, TT and pancake flat crits, so it's not exactly surprising we only produce big lumps with engines rather than proper GC contenders. All the events which a youngster can use to move through the ranks positively reward adding muscle mass on for more watts at more or less any weight cost.

 

[Jamsque]

I think (I hope) that the track-centric nature of British cycling culture is changing. Cav's success on the road and Bradley Wiggins' (semi) successful transition from track to road has raised the profile of road racing here. I think 5-10 years down the line we might well see a new generation of British racers who have grown up on the road rather than the track.

 

[L'arriviste]

I think (I hope) that the track-centric nature of British cycling culture is changing. Cav's success on the road and Bradley Wiggins' (semi) successful transition from track to road has raised the profile of road racing here. I think 5-10 years down the line we might well see a new generation of British racers who have grown up on the road rather than the track.

It's where the money is, isn't it? Once they're done with the Olympics, the kids have got to make some pennies while they're young enough.

Being a recent returner to cycling, I was startled by how suddenly those Olympians like Wiggins, Rob Hayles popped up on French teams. Was there any element of the old French club feeder system or did some sort of agent relationship circumvent that?

Raises another interesting and perhaps slightly more on topic question for me. The feeder system in Britain is pretty much limited to British Cycling and stagiaires who already started out on the Continental circuit from Belgian or French access points.

So is it conceivable that Sky could recruit direct from British clubs? Or will it stick with its current approach? Or, even further, will it evolve into an increasingly international team rather than a "British" team?

 

[jaylew]

From comments ive seen, most "british tour de france fans" want to see cav at sky, most "british team sky all year round cycling fans" dont.

But aren't there more of the former?

The consensus is he would upset the balance of the team. Cavs success at columbia has been at the expense of any real GC contention.

How would cav going to sky fit with the teams aim of winning the tour de france?

I'd feel exactly the same as you do, but do you think it is good for the long term health of the team? I don't understand the climate around cycling there but I'd imagine it's at least a little similar to the one in the states. I have to admit, there is no way we've got as many top tier teams as we have now w/o the Armstrong effect.

Is the UK's cycling culture strong enough to support a top-flight team that doesn't have any real success in the Tour? Do Sky need to woo the TdF only fans or the non-cycling fans in order to make the project viable long-term? If they stick with their stated goal of winning the Tour and can't even put a guy in the top 10 in the next couple of years, do they change up and go after Cav or do they scrap the part about a British tour winner and try to sign the best GC candidate they can find, regardless of nationality? Would they be patient enough to wait 4-7 years for a homegrown GC rider to develop? After all, there are very few teams able to truly ride for GC at the Tour. Columbia has sacrificed that but have been the most successful team in the peloton over the last few years.

What are your thoughts? You obviously have more knowledge than I do regarding the situation.

 

[riobonito92]

Two reasons why the "British TdF winner by 2015" is very unlikely:

1) The only way Wiggins can possibly win a TdF is if there is a very long TTT, a bunch of ITTs, no altitude higher than 2000 metres and nothing too steep.

2) The short list of possible for contenders for 2015 already includes Contador, Schleck (x2?) Kreuzinger, Nibali, & Gesink and the long list includes Martin, Rodriguez, Brajkovic and, who knows, the whole of Footon.

So, unless the intention is to take the money and enjoy it while it lasts, there has to be a new, better plan.

 

[Anonymous]

I think (I hope) that the track-centric nature of British cycling culture is changing. Cav's success on the road and Bradley Wiggins' (semi) successful transition from track to road has raised the profile of road racing here. I think 5-10 years down the line we might well see a new generation of British racers who have grown up on the road rather than the track.

I think the fact that the IOC have changed the rules so a country can only enter 1 rider in each track event will have a massive impact on that as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Is the UK's cycling culture strong enough to support a top-flight team that doesn't have any real success in the Tour? Do Sky need to woo the TdF only fans or the non-cycling fans in order to make the project viable long-term? If they stick with their stated goal of winning the Tour and can't even put a guy in the top 10 in the next couple of years, do they change up and go after Cav or do they scrap the part about a British tour winner and try to sign the best GC candidate they can find, regardless of nationality? Would they be patient enough to wait 4-7 years for a homegrown GC rider to develop? After all, there are very few teams able to truly ride for GC at the Tour. Columbia has sacrificed that but have been the most successful team in the peloton over the last few years.

What are your thoughts? You obviously have more knowledge than I do regarding the situation.

its actually a tricky one for sky. They need to woo one market and inform another. I dont have Sky's exact figures regarding traffic, but they are seeing 20x the site traffic during the tour as opposed to the rest of the season. Probably 80% of the "sky fans" only follow the tour de france, and so for them, success in the tour is the only measure they have of how good the team is. There were messages being posted in the middle of the classics asking when sky were racing and how much people were looking forward to the tour. There are probably another 15% who are aware of other races and dont follow them religiously, and about 5% who are avid all year round fans.
To keep those Thousands of fans they need to perform well in the tour, but the hardcore cycling fans who will be around for years, go to races etc want success in other races. Its a tricky balance.

My traffic on the other hand is interesting, my traffic over march-may during the classics was immense, higher at times than the official sky site traffic, because of the feeds links, blogs, and videos etc. July has been worthless in comparison, mainly because of the mass media coverage of the tour. The blogs pages and photo albums have taken hits but the rest has been pretty quiet. So from that point of view i cant judge what fans are into.

Anyway,. at the moment, based on a fairly uninformed british public, success in the tour for sky i think is pretty critical to their long term plans as a team. The trouble is, as ever the british public have completely unrealistic demands. The critisism ive seen for Brad not being in yellow, or Edvald not being in green is ridiculous. Its british mentality unfortunatley. And for a lot of those fans they see it as a simple case of "cavendish wins lots so just sign him"..

But signing cav isnt creating success, its just buying a few wins each year.

Anyway, ive rambled, but yes, all a majority british cycling fans know about is the tour. Pretty much like a majority of american fans i guess.