What should Sky do next?

[LugHugger]

Dim's got it pretty much spot on in his synopsis above. Remember back in feb/march when just a couple of us were suggesting that Stannard and Thomas would be names to look out for? Plenty of posters here had never heard of them, let alone the 'average' British sports' fan.

A couple of guys at work who consider themselves to be armchair jocks have expressed surprise at how badly Wiggins is doing and distress when I explained that there was definitely no way back for Armstrong after the first week. The average British sports fan understands nothing of bike racing other than the Tour happens in July. And that the Brits are quite handy riding around in circles for about 12-18 months in a four year Olympic 'cycle'.

imo, Cav joining Team Sky would be a disaster in terms of squad retention but obviously would deliver success for Brailsford in securing wider publicity in the UK. We would do well to remember though that Sky Italia [?] are a significant partner in the team budget and that there is more than one market that the team needs to be invested in.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

They really need a Continental U23 team like the ones that Radioshack, Garmin, and Rabobank have if they really want to develop talent.

 

[Sneekes]

I'm quite happy for Cav not to sign for Sky, and I'm fairly confident he'll stay at HTC, but if he were to sign for Sky is there any way he would accept a reduced lead-out train? Say he gets 3 guys, the GC lead gets 3 guys and the ninth is free to try and get in the break.
He'd lose something in chasing down breaks, but there will be other teams trying to do that as well (Lampre, Lotto). He'd probably win a few less races - but not many as he's still the fastest.

If the price was right - would he accept that?

 

[euanli]

They really need a Continental U23 team like the ones that Radioshack, Garmin, and Rabobank have if they really want to develop talent.

There kinda is in 100% ME which is the BC under 23 programme

 

[Benotti69]

Murdoch should beat LA to buying the TdF and then have have Wiggins win it....

 

[Roland Rat]

I have never believed that Brailsford genuinely believes Wiggins can win the Tour. Sky is all about whether Brailsford can turn the first rider he lined up - Peter Kennaugh - into a GT winner. It may never happen, but if it does it won't be for a few years yet, and that is why Wiggins is so important - a household name in the UK who can be marketed as a big white hope for a few years to keep the English-speaking public amused while we see how Kennaugh develops without too much expectation. If Wiggins was really their genuine propsect they would have made sure they had signed him from the outset rather than fannying around in November or whenever it was. And I suspect that if Brailsford is honest he would admit that it was actually a bit of a pain in the **** for him just quite how highly Wiggins finished in the Tour last year.

But days like yesterday serve as a much-needed reality check for Sky and British Cycling. It is a very crowded field out there, and it is possible to get to a very high standard indeed, only to find that there are 15 or so people on the planet who are as good or better and you are "only" in the top 20 of a GT.

I don't think Wiggins' value is in any success he might have, but in laying the blueprint for G and Kennaugh. Practice on Wiggo, where a mistake is the difference between top 10 and top 20, so that they can get it right when they have a genuine contender.

 

[Roland Rat]

There kinda is in 100% ME which is the BC under 23 programme

But it doesn't compare to the likes of Livestrong, otherwise Dowsett wouldn't have had to move.

Ironic move though, from the antidoping team "100% Me" to Livestrong.

 

[Non Grimpeur]

Sky need to go back to the drawing board. Why do they think that they can turn pursuiters into Tour winners? I cannot think when the last time a major tour was won by an ex-track rider. There is a massive difference between doing 4.15 for a 4k pursuit and winning the tour. Sure, these guys have good engines but you need more than that.

Dave Brailsford deserves a lot of credit for what he has done for British cycling but the ingredients for success on the track and the road are different. It is no good looking at bikes and clothing for fractional time gains if your leader is getting shelled out on the last climb of the day.

I agree with others about focusing on riders such as Peter Kennaugh who looks to be an excellent prospect. Unlike Wiggins,he is young and has already shown promise in road races such as the Baby Giro and the worlds.

The bottom line is that Sky needs more hardened road riders to build a base for tour success. Track riders will give you good riders like Boardman, O;Grady and McGee. They will not win the tour for you.

 

[joy118118]

But it doesn't compare to the likes of Livestrong, otherwise Dowsett wouldn't have had to move.

Ironic move though, from the antidoping team "100% Me" to Livestrong.

most pro tour team dont have their U23 teams.

a U23 team sometimes means too many talents waiting for a position of the PT team.

 

[Anonymous]

Sky need to go back to the drawing board. Why do they think that they can turn pursuiters into Tour winners? I cannot think when the last time a major tour was won by an ex-track rider. There is a massive difference between doing 4.15 for a 4k pursuit and winning the tour. Sure, these guys have good engines but you need more than that.

I think some of that is down to fashion though, track is more popular now, than maybe 20 years ago, but then less popular than 50 years ago. Being a good track rider does not make you a bad tour rider. The assumption seems to be if a rider is good at 1km time trial on the track thats all hes good for.

Its also because the money has been in track cycling in the uk for several years so the younger riders have obviously ridden some track. Doesnt mean thats all they do. Im sure Indurain could have kicked **** in the pursuit if he had really wanted to.

 

[Anonymous]

A small point on the tour. In retrospect should EbH have gone to the tour.

I was one of the few arguing against it, and yes, he came close to a couple of stage wins but hes not looked comfortable in other stages, i was expecting much much more on the cobbles.

Alterntatively, would sky have been better dropping a couple of the climbers and putting in a couple of more lead-out capable riders.

Geraint though for me this tour has been brilliant, white jersey, and singlehandly led out ebh every time, his driving in front of edvald was immense.

 

[JesusManzano]

A small point on the tour. In retrospect should EbH have gone to the tour.

I was one of the few arguing against it, and yes, he came close to a couple of stage wins but hes not looked comfortable in other stages, i was expecting much much more on the cobbles.

Alterntatively, would sky have been better dropping a couple of the climbers and putting in a couple of more lead-out capable riders.

Geraint though for me this tour has been brilliant, white jersey, and singlehandly led out ebh every time, his driving in front of edvald was immense.

wow. Did you at any time think it would be smart not to include ebh in the tour team?
1.It would not help wiggins if he had contador as a pure helper in the mountains insted of ebh.
2.ebh did a very good job when waiting for wiggins on the cobbles. wiggins pointed this out after that stage...
3.he is the best sprinter on sky and the closest they have come to a stage win so far. AND its not unlikely he will win a stage

 

[joy118118]

A small point on the tour. In retrospect should EbH have gone to the tour.

I was one of the few arguing against it, and yes, he came close to a couple of stage wins but hes not looked comfortable in other stages, i was expecting much much more on the cobbles.

Alterntatively, would sky have been better dropping a couple of the climbers and putting in a couple of more lead-out capable riders.

Geraint though for me this tour has been brilliant, white jersey, and singlehandly led out ebh every time, his driving in front of edvald was immense.

I think le Tour is part of ebh's contract. will he take part in vuelta? he should go to there.

 

[hrotha]

What couple of climbers would you have dropped? Lofkvist and, huh, Barry?

 

[riobonito92]

So, there are three exciting young talents: Geraint Thomas, Peter Kennaugh and EbH and some solid support riders. What should be done to nurture and maximize this talent over the next five years? TdF or not? Ride Giros and Vueltas for the experience or lesser one week races as contenders. Focus on classics to build up endurance? Have these three always riding together or doing different races? How does Lofkvist, who will be 31 in 2015 but is not British, fit in to the equation?

 

[Mambo95]

A small point on the tour. In retrospect should EbH have gone to the tour.

I was one of the few arguing against it, and yes, he came close to a couple of stage wins but hes not looked comfortable in other stages, i was expecting much much more on the cobbles.

Of course, he should have gone. He's a top class rider and the only way you get experience for the Tour is by doing the Tour.

Take for example a young 22 year old who made his Tour debut in 2007. He lasted eight stages and came 9th and 10th in two sprints. Many would have thought this was a waste of a team place, but Mark Cavendish probably didn't.

 

[kurtinsc]

wow. Did you at any time think it would be smart not to include ebh in the tour team?
1.It would not help wiggins if he had contador as a pure helper in the mountains insted of ebh.
2.ebh did a very good job when waiting for wiggins on the cobbles. wiggins pointed this out after that stage...
3.he is the best sprinter on sky and the closest they have come to a stage win so far. AND its not unlikely he will win a stage

Actually, I think it is pretty unlikely that he'll win a stage.

He's got too many points for the sprint teams to allow him in a break. But I don't think he's going to be able to win a bunch sprint either.

Tough for me to find a stage where I think he's got a good chance of winning. maybe a hilly/mountain stage where the group rides hard enough to drop some of the sprinters where Edvald can hang on... but which one would that be?

 

[Roland Rat]

Actually, I think it is pretty unlikely that he'll win a stage.

He's got too many points for the sprint teams to allow him in a break. But I don't think he's going to be able to win a bunch sprint either.

Tough for me to find a stage where I think he's got a good chance of winning. maybe a hilly/mountain stage where the group rides hard enough to drop some of the sprinters where Edvald can hang on... but which one would that be?

It's all a cunning plan. What will happen is they will bluff the teams into forgetting about them, then on the Champs Elysee G, Wiggo and EBH will train it around the place de la concorde and finish 123 on the stage. They will then release the photo to convince the people who don't know anything that as they crossed the line on the final stage first, they "reached Paris" first and therefore won the Tour.

Look out for the advertising campaign in August.

 

[Anonymous]

It's all a cunning plan. What will happen is they will bluff the teams into forgetting about them, then on the Champs Elysee G, Wiggo and EBH will train it around the place de la concorde and finish 123 on the stage. They will then release the photo to convince the people who don't know anything that as they crossed the line on the final stage first, they "reached Paris" first and therefore won the Tour.

Look out for the advertising campaign in August.

8,9,10 blah blah

 

[Boeing]

With the number of Frenchies winning stages Sky should Pray they get an invite next year.....

So typical of British Sports... Managing bureaucracy becomes so big and introverted it conflicts with the organization's mission or purpose. Game over

These riders never had a chance

 

[meandmygitane]

What couple of climbers would you have dropped? Lofkvist and, huh, Barry?

Serge Pauwels for one! So for that is, but there is still some mountains left (and what mountains!)

Why not JL Augustyn or Calzati instead of Pauwels (as things are looking now, and for different roles respectively)?

 

[Anonymous]

Serge Pauwels for one! So for that is, but there is still some mountains left (and what mountains!)

Why not JL Augustyn or Calzati instead of Pauwels (as things are looking now, and for different roles respectively)?

Calzati will be even more miffed he was left out at the last minute now.

As for EbH. I dont think hes fully recovered from injury. And without a lead out train he just hasnt the experience to win sprints by himself, three times now his positioning has been really bad/three times now he has been blocked off in the last few hundred meters depending on your point of view.

 

[ingsve]

Calzati will be even more miffed he was left out at the last minute now.

As for EbH. I dont think hes fully recovered from injury. And without a lead out train he just hasnt the experience to win sprints by himself, three times now his positioning has been really bad/three times now he has been blocked off in the last few hundred meters depending on your point of view.

As Brailsford has said all along. EBH is there to learn and that's what he's doing.

One thing I've seen in a few sprints is that he sits on Geraint Thomas wheel the whole way and gets moved forward but then there is no real leadout so that he can start his sprints in a good position. He's been left more to the side of the field so when the sprint starts and the groups bulges out to the side he gets trapped behind other riders. I think it would be better to have a proper lead out all the way until he starts his own sprint or he should be further up on someones wheel duking it out with the other sprinters.

While the team does a good job at keeping him up there without him wasting energy, he's still not starting the sprints from an optimal position. There are improvements that can be made in his positioning and that's what he's there to learn.

 

[Roland Rat]

They're now targetting a stage win through one of Wiggins, Fletcher, EBH and G.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sports...to-go-for-stage-glory-on-tour-91466-26863977/

 

[Anonymous]

As Brailsford has said all along. EBH is there to learn and that's what he's doing.

One thing I've seen in a few sprints is that he sits on Geraint Thomas wheel the whole way and gets moved forward but then there is no real leadout so that he can start his sprints in a good position. He's been left more to the side of the field so when the sprint starts and the groups bulges out to the side he gets trapped behind other riders. I think it would be better to have a proper lead out all the way until he starts his own sprint or he should be further up on someones wheel duking it out with the other sprinters.

While the team does a good job at keeping him up there without him wasting energy, he's still not starting the sprints from an optimal position. There are improvements that can be made in his positioning and that's what he's there to learn.

So is G - from a sprinting experience position - point of view the best person to lead him out... I dunno, EbH has an awful lot to learn and im not sure the biggest race of the year is the best place to learn where to and not to sprint from. I think he should race wherever griepel goes right now, would be good to see those to go against each other, do them both some good.;