What the hell just happened ?

[frenchfry]

THis may coem a shock tu youm two but I dont KNot NO what it is that YOURE saying in this quoted post.

Glenn to the rescue! Drag 'em down to your level then knock them out. Afterwards a quick bite at Red Lobster to celebrate.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

So Sally Knob Polisher Jenkins is someone with a realistic opinion about USADA huh? That article read just like it was written by the LA public relations corp, of which I would not be at all surprised to find out she is a part.

That's it, strike 17, off to ignore land you go. Have fun there.

Close to truth on that one man. To bad the sock-puppet speculation thread is closed.

 

[MarkvW]

Brodeal, where is link that shows Lance accepting sanctions?
He rightfully has said he is the 7 time winner. That is True.

Lance refused to wrestle with the pigs. Big Difference there. Can't you see that?

Maybe you should reread Lance's statement? Reread Lance's Lawyer statement that came out the same evening too.

OneTwoThreeFour FiveSixSeven.
Scoreboard.

USADA is freaking out. They should be.
As long as Lance is listed as the Official Winner of the TdF, USADA freaks.
They need to lobby more in France. More L'equipe stuff. Visit the ASO.

"USADA freaks"? Nice image. No evidence of that, though.

 

[BroDeal]

Brodeal, where is link that shows Lance accepting sanctions?
He rightfully has said he is the 7 time winner. That is True.

Lance refused to wrestle with the pigs. Big Difference there. Can't you see that?

Maybe you should reread Lance's statement? Reread Lance's Lawyer statement that came out the same evening too.

OneTwoThreeFour FiveSixSeven.
Scoreboard.

USADA is freaking out. They should be.
As long as Lance is listed as the Official Winner of the TdF, USADA freaks.
They need to lobby more in France. More L'equipe stuff. Visit the ASO.

Stop living in the past, man. A lot happened while you were exiled to troll Velonews' forums. Armstrong lost it all. Zero. All results from August 1998 stripped. It's all gone. He is now travelling the country, trying to call attention to himself by wearing a Speedo. It is darned pathetic.

LeMond! America's only Tour de France winner.

 

[Race Radio]

The question is whether or not this forum will contain the screaming when a rebuttal arrives?

Will that rebuttal include unicorns and Bigfoot? Space Aliens?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

THis may coem a shock tu youm two but I dont KNot NO what it is that YOURE saying in this quoted post.

your rong knot.

 

[gree0232]

Not that hard when the evidence is so overwhelming that the chief conspirator figures he might as well accept the punishment without fighting the charges. Slam dunk, baby. Win. Win. Win.

Haters: 7
True Believers: 0

Game. Set. Match.

How do you know any of that when none of it has been released?

THAT is the point being made.

Much of what has been released is old hash, and the new stuff seems to be coming from the dynamic duo of Tyler and Floyd.

What we are not getting, aside from witnesses and vauge press smears, is hard evidence that has turned up in other cases ... listed.

If the EPO is flowing, can you tell me why Spanish police were able to to trace it back to the source (their court system being a train wreck is another issue alltogether)? Why are they able to do it in Austria with blood doping rings? WHy haven't we actually turned up any tangible proof of doping?

Where is Tyler with the vials of EPO? With the empty blood bags? With the transfusion machines? Where are the wire taps that nailed several Italian cyclists?

Even Roger Clemens had syringes with his blood smeared all over it.

We have teh allegation of evidence, delayed (apparently because they are still investigating) without explanation, and twice, in as many days, USADA happily smearing the UCI.

THat is not evidence.

 

[fixedgear]

Not quite.

#1 - I think USADA is biased, but so is every other organization in this AD system. These biases play out in a way that results in general smear rather than progress in actually cleaning up the sport. What we do not have in all these agencies is a defined prosecutor or defense, and there is not an independant court system that can cut through the resulting interagency smear fest. CAS is as close as we have ....

#2 - I think hunting down a retired cyclist with a lot of press leaks is not about justice. I think the utter inability tio actually discuss the system without being insulted and accused is indicative of the highly polarized atmosphere that flows from #1.

Call it whatever you wish, but the delay in evidence is worrisome, the leaked press rumors, etc. do not point toward an evidenced driven process.

#3 - It is smear campaign, one that now encompasses Hincapie and many other people, which is odd as Hincapie is supposedly given evidence in the exact same press releases? Only, when he denies it ... suddenly he's smeared.

That is not an evidence driven process is it?

#4 - See #1.

#5 - Yep, a system with a defined prosecutor, defined defense, and a court of sport that is independant.

I also think the arbitration system should be done away with, its expensive, its inefficient, and its indefinite. Only CAS has brought resolution to issues. Why pretend anything else is working?

#6 - I also think both sides need to cool their jets a bit and actually attempt to have a discussion about actual anti-doping practices. Again, I have some professional back ground in just this field, and when I look at the UCI vs WADA, while the IOC sits back and does nothing while they rip each other apart, I see exterme dysfuction.

WADA should be prosecutor, UCI should have a cycling union underneath its auspicious, that acts as a defense, and the court system need to be an extention of CAS.

Finally, yesterday, no one heard of Mercer. Today, Papa Tygart lionizes him and suddenly, the Lance trolls have a new hero they know nothing about? A quick back ground check reveals he has something of a sordid past, but any attempt to paint Mercer as anything other than a gladiator for truth are ignored by a corwd of lance trolls who have lost any semblence of objectivity.

We are in a system in which anyone who makes any claims about doping is believed automatically, and anyone who questions their intent or the veracity of the information is demonized and accussed of copnspiracy.

If that is not a witch hunt, WTH is it?

Prosecution is beyond question, defense is a conspiracy, and the court appears to be public opinion?

Nothing whatsoever wrong with that process? Really?

You think USADA is biased but can't substantiate that claim beyond your speculation of a smear campaign. Again, the prosecution AND defense are always biased. The problem occurs when the two opposing sides use unlawful practices to obtain evidence or withhold evidence.

LA was only 1 year removed from cycling. You're employing another one of LA's talking points. Again, they finally obtained evidence that was corroborated. Evidence has been around since 99. I know that you equate length of time with being a witch hunt, but it's not uncommon for cases to be reopened when new evidence appears.

You can form whatever scenario you want for a 'better' system. But has the system wrongly accused anyone? Has it disregarded basic rights governed by our constitution? One can fault the system and claim it needs to be changed if they are wrongly accused through illegal means. But making these claims just because one is being accused simply attempts to divert the issue from one's supposed guilt.

Perhaps you should look past the process and actually to those who utilize it and question where the real problem lies.

Finally, you effectively, on this forum, smeared the name of a cyclist with an action that didn't belong to him. Will you explain yourself? Were you attempting to background check Mercier in the hopes that you would find some incriminating information about him in order to discredit his claims? If so, it seems like you are very versed in the game of smear.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Will that rebuttal include unicorns and Bigfoot? Space Aliens?

Kindof.
Not Bigfoot, but BigGut.
As any rebuttal can only come from McQuaid, and as he will be probably be sweating profusely and mopping his forehead he may look like unicorn.

 

[gree0232]

"USADA freaks"? Nice image. No evidence of that, though.

The fact that they have resorted to hyperbole of calling the UCI tyrannical BEFORE handing over the evidence means they are indeed shaping the public relations for the expected outcome after turning over the evidence.

Its not going to be a reasoned rebuttal to evidence, its going to be a conspiratorial tyranny that is ... er, Scott Mercer is now a wonder victim.

Wonder how much USADA paid him?

One wonders why Tygart isn't just presenting the evidence and moving on?

 

[gree0232]

You think USADA is biased but can't substantiate that claim beyond your speculation of a smear campaign. Again, the prosecution AND defense are always biased. The problem occurs when the two opposing sides use unlawful practices to obtain evidence or withhold evidence.

LA was only 1 year removed from cycling. You're employing another one of LA's talking points. Again, they finally obtained evidence that was corroborated. Evidence has been around since 99. I know that you equate length of time with being a witch hunt, but it's not uncommon for cases to be reopened when new evidence appears.

You can form whatever scenario you want for a 'better' system. But has the system wrongly accused anyone? Has it disregarded basic rights governed by our constitution? One can fault the system and claim it needs to be changed if they are wrongly accused through illegal means. But making these claims just because one is being accused simply attempts to divert the issue from one's supposed guilt.

Perhaps you should look past the process and actually to those who utilize it and question where the real problem lies.

Finally, you effectively, on this forum, smeared the name of a cyclist with an action that didn't belong to him. Will you explain yourself? Were you attempting to background check Mercier in the hopes that you would find some incriminating information about him in order to discredit his claims? If so, it seems like you are very versed in the game of smear.

The source explains it. Its not like I made up a source and dumped it into the internet.

Enough with the conspiracy theories. ENough with the accusations that everything that doesn;t comport to the lance trolls ideaology is faked, or a smear. I simply types in SCott Mercer trying to find his history ... and ... that is what came up.

Blame google if you like. Its obvious that google has been infiltrated by LA and has been bent to his conspiratorial will?

Nice to see that using google is now witness intimidation? We can question LA's motives turn him into the devil himself, but when a dude no one has ever heard of blasts the UCI out of the blue ... we are not allowed to question why that is? And why that is in conjuction with Papa Tygart?

I think these double standards are exactly the problem.

Papa T want to be prosecutor = fine.

So is a defense.

And when you call an agency set up with checks and balances tryannical? Well, expect a rebuttal.

The shrill screaming of conspiracy does not take away the reality that prosecution and persecution are two very different things. The later is the one where rebuttals are not allowed.

Sheryl Crow, Kristen Armstrong, Hincapie, the UCI, hidden positives ... etc. Nope, the system is clearly being ridgedly driven by facts.

 

[fixedgear]

How do you know any of that when none of it has been released?

THAT is the point being made.

Much of what has been released is old hash, and the new stuff seems to be coming from the dynamic duo of Tyler and Floyd.

What we are not getting, aside from witnesses and vauge press smears, is hard evidence that has turned up in other cases ... listed.

If the EPO is flowing, can you tell me why Spanish police were able to to trace it back to the source (their court system being a train wreck is another issue alltogether)? Why are they able to do it in Austria with blood doping rings? WHy haven't we actually turned up any tangible proof of doping?

Where is Tyler with the vials of EPO? With the empty blood bags? With the transfusion machines? Where are the wire taps that nailed several Italian cyclists?

Even Roger Clemens had syringes with his blood smeared all over it.

We have teh allegation of evidence, delayed (apparently because they are still investigating) without explanation, and twice, in as many days, USADA happily smearing the UCI.

THat is not evidence.

Since you like to speculate about speculations, why do you think TT would state that they have evidence (postitive samples, witness testimony, etc.). You could make the case that they are allegations of evidence if it was coming third-hand or even second-hand, but this if from the horse's mouth.

Asking the question as to why we, as in the U.S., have not been able to crack the athletic doping rings clouds the issue and attempts to divert it. What is your point? Are you insinuating that since no high-profile drug busts have occurred, that the system doesn't work? Again, nice clever way to smear USADA.

 

[noddy69]

The source explains it. Its not like I made up a source and dumped it into the internet.

I simply types in SCott Mercer trying to find his history ... and ... that is what came up.

Blame google if you like. Its obvious that google has been infiltrated by LA and has been bent to his conspiratorial will?

Nice to see that using google is now witness intimidation? We can question LA's motives turn him into the devil himself, but when a dude no one has ever heard of blasts the UCI out of the blue ... we are not allowed to question why that is? And why that is in conjuction with Papa Tygart?

.

Somebody noone has ever heard of ? now I know your just causing trouble.
You then try and attack someone you know nothing about,make a balls of it and then no apology.LA style,go on the attack and frankly its disgusting that you bother.
I firmly believe you are wasting peoples time,and I suggest you apologise for smearing a mans name rather than blaming google.You were the one who wrote it when you had not checked your source.

 

[fixedgear]

The source explains it. Its not like I made up a source and dumped it into the internet.

Enough with the conspiracy theories. ENough with the accusations that everything that doesn;t comport to the lance trolls ideaology is faked, or a smear. I simply types in SCott Mercer trying to find his history ... and ... that is what came up.

Blame google if you like. Its obvious that google has been infiltrated by LA and has been bent to his conspiratorial will?

Nice to see that using google is now witness intimidation? We can question LA's motives turn him into the devil himself, but when a dude no one has ever heard of blasts the UCI out of the blue ... we are not allowed to question why that is? And why that is in conjuction with Papa Tygart?

I think these double standards are exactly the problem.

Papa T want to be prosecutor = fine.

So is a defense.

And when you call an agency set up with checks and balances tryannical? Well, expect a rebuttal.

The shrill screaming of conspiracy does not take away the reality that prosecution and persecution are two very different things. The later is the one where rebuttals are not allowed.

Sheryl Crow, Kristen Armstrong, Hincapie, the UCI, hidden positives ... etc. Nope, the system is clearly being ridgedly driven by facts.

It's Scott Mercier, not Mercer. You got the wrong guy and effectively smeared the right guy. Yes, you typed in his name to find his history. You were looking for info that would discredit him. You happily found it, except that you got the wrong guy. Explain your intentions or issue a redaction.

You know, TT isn't perfect and I don't agree with him using certain terms to describe the UCI. But it seems as if you are doing the same as what you claim everyone else to be doing. It's shrill screaming of conspiracy is it not?

You keep mentioning rebuttals. No one is discounting that that could likely happen, either by UCI, or eventually CAS. LA was given the opportunity. He had options on how to rebut. He ignored them all. What you fail to see, that most here are connecting the dots and see a very solid case being created by USADA. That's why they view a rebuttal as unlikely, since the ASSUMED evidence (happy about how I worded that), looks promising for the prosecution.

 

[gree0232]

Since you like to speculate about speculations, why do you think TT would state that they have evidence (postitive samples, witness testimony, etc.). You could make the case that they are allegations of evidence if it was coming third-hand or even second-hand, but this if from the horse's mouth.

Asking the question as to why we, as in the U.S., have not been able to crack the athletic doping rings clouds the issue and attempts to divert it. What is your point? Are you insinuating that since no high-profile drug busts have occurred, that the system doesn't work? Again, nice clever way to smear USADA.

Let me show you something.

http://www.usada.org/sanctions/

THat is a list of sanctions from USADA's own site. Almost ALL of them involve positive dope tests, or are for other tangible violations like missing a dope test. None relies on eye witness accounts.

Now, we have pronouced guilt on an athlete, hidden the evidence using tactics normally reserved for terrorists, are attacking the agency we HAVE to hand over the evidence to, and have yet to release the evidence in support of a delcaration of guilt? One that is completely at odds with USADA's past history of convictions?

And I suggest you actually attempt to read English.

Whne someone post evidence of ACTUAL police busts getting results, and then wonders why, with Floyd and Tyler handing such speciifc information to any investigator who would listen, why we have never found US Postal, etc., with the evidence to corroberate?

In short, we are getting busts when others do this, why not now? We have, what, 20 teams engaged in a massive trafficking conspiracy ... but only cycling, with a lot less money than other sports, is deftly unable to produce the goods?

Again, everyone else is able to crack these rings. Without the smears, without the hyperbole, and with evidence. Go figure.

 

[Benotti69]

Let me show you something.

http://www.usada.org/sanctions/

THat is a list of sanctions from USADA's own site. Almost ALL of them involve positive dope tests, or are for other tangible violations like missing a dope test. None relies on eye witness accounts.

Now, we have pronouced guilt on an athlete, hidden the evidence using tactics normally reserved for terrorists, are attacking the agency we HAVE to hand over the evidence to, and have yet to release the evidence in support of a delcaration of guilt? One that is completely at odds with USADA's past history of convictions?

And I suggest you actually attempt to read English.

Whne someone post evidence of ACTUAL police busts getting results, and then wonders why, with Floyd and Tyler handing such speciifc information to any investigator who would listen, why we have never found US Postal, etc., with the evidence to corroberate?

In short, we are getting busts when others do this, why not now? We have, what, 20 teams engaged in a massive trafficking conspiracy ... but only cycling, with a lot less money than other sports, is deftly unable to produce the goods?

Again, everyone else is able to crack these rings. Without the smears, without the hyperbole, and with evidence. Go figure.

But Armstrong failed tests.

Armstrong failed the biopassport.

He bought his way out of them.

I dont think it is a witch hunt. A doper hunt yes, A fraud hunt yes, a cheater hunt yes. But Armstong is not witch but then again witches probably did dope.

 

[gree0232]

It's Scott Mercier, not Mercer. You got the wrong guy and effectively smeared the right guy. Yes, you typed in his name to find his history. You were looking for info that would discredit him. You happily found it, except that you got the wrong guy. Explain your intentions or issue a redaction.

You know, TT isn't perfect and I don't agree with him using certain terms to describe the UCI. But it seems as if you are doing the same as what you claim everyone else to be doing. It's shrill screaming of conspiracy is it not?

You keep mentioning rebuttals. No one is discounting that that could likely happen, either by UCI, or eventually CAS. LA was given the opportunity. He had options on how to rebut. He ignored them all. What you fail to see, that most here are connecting the dots and see a very solid case being created by USADA. That's why they view a rebuttal as unlikely, since the ASSUMED evidence (happy about how I worded that), looks promising for the prosecution.

Oh no, did a google search turn up the wrong guy! It happens when a guy that no one know anything about comes shooting out of the blue with an emotional allegation about the tyrannical UCI.

Apparently, asking, "WTH is this guy?" is out line?

By all means, as yesterday you knew nothing about him either, please educate us all on this most recent entrance into the scions of anti-doping.

Please, explain to us all how this guy wound up publically talking with Papa Tygart in the middle of the smear campaign against the UCI?

All while maintaining a victim mentality that asking who this is, is somehow witness intimidation or terrorism? Nice.

See point about utter inability of defense.

 

[noddy69]

Let me show you something.

http://www.usada.org/sanctions/





And I suggest you actually attempt to read English.

Whne someone post evidence of ACTUAL police busts getting results,

.

Those two sentences sum it up.Now where is the retraction from the smear you put on he man ?

 

[gree0232]

But Armstrong failed tests.

Armstrong failed the biopassport.

He bought his way out of them.

I dont think it is a witch hunt. A doper hunt yes, A fraud hunt yes, a cheater hunt yes. But Armstong is not witch but then again witches probably did dope.

Not according to the Vrijman report he did not. (I know the Hog and others have decided to simply ignore the report, but actual courts cannot ...)

THe biopassport went through the results management process and nothing came of it. Now Tygart has made the allegation ... the evidence seems .. lost?

The UCI, BTW, has the bio pass port information, and they could certainly confirm this point quite easily - as could WADA.

Their silence tells us something does it not?

Accusation without evidence is a witch hunt.

 

[gree0232]

Those two sentences sum it up.Now where is the retraction from the smear you put on he man ?

That makes no sense. How is pointing out actual police busts and comparing them to the dearth of such busts with US Postal a sum of anything you want to make?

Where is the apology for all the smears, of Wiggans, Hincapie, etc. that have recieved? Right, its only wrong one way - gotcha. THat is the point.

Where is the puboic retraction of accusing Cancellera of mechanical doping? Of Wiggans for talking about cadence when we KNOW he's doping? Of ignoring the Vrijman report? The UCI as a tyranny?

No where.

Moral indignation and double standards noted.

 

[Benotti69]

Not according to the Vrijman report he did not. (I know the Hog and others have decided to simply ignore the report, but actual courts cannot ...)

THe biopassport went through the results management process and nothing came of it. Now Tygart has made the allegation ... the evidence seems .. lost?

The UCI, BTW, has the bio pass port information, and they could certainly confirm this point quite easily - as could WADA.

Their silence tells us something does it not?

Accusation without evidence is a witch hunt.

Ah Gree but the great Amercian justice department didn't have time for Armstrong on this one. Judge Sparks said go forth and abritrate, but Juan Pelota did a runner, tail between his legs.

Now if there was zilch evidence this could have all been cleared up and we would be chearing on the nice chap as he took tri win after tri win with that oversized heart of his, high cadence and bust his *** training all day every day kind of guy we all know and love.

It is a shame that Armstrong didn't sit down and explain how much good he has done, he is now pushed sales of butter up again, expecially among the tri crowd. I believe Team Sky, Garmin and Saxo all studied "The Purloined Letter" and other notable works for the GT wins to name a few of the great benefits Armstrong has encouraged.

So chill Gree. It is coming......

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Yep, lance is guilty because ANOTHER lance troll has suddenly been graced with clairvoyance and an ingrained class mentality.

Its so clear now.

This malice, so clearly on display ... its what you guys accuse LA of being.

What you see as "malice" is merely a recognition of reality. Those who are the object of such clear observations generally mix the two up. It's because we recoil more from the truth someone expresses about us, than we do the falsehoods. Pretty common trait among the human population of our planet. Thanks for providing another example. I will refer to it in the future.

 

[superleicht]

Please, explain to us all how this guy wound up publically talking with Papa Tygart in the middle of the smear campaign against the UCI?

Who's "smearing" the UCI? The final paragraph in the Cyclenews article is an excerpt from an op-ed piece written by Mercier. An opinion piece. Apparently, Tygart contacted Mercier after reading Hamilton's book - so? Are you critical of Tygart for actually doing his job?

When I'm in Grand Junction this winter I'll make sure to eat a meal in Mercier's place and thank him for being a stand-up guy.

Superleicht

 

[BroDeal]

The best part of this Armstrong thing is watching these homers throw tantrums. They flail about with the most ridiculous complaints fashioned from a combination of half truths and lies.

And the great thing is that they don't have any defense against the evidence because Armstrong punked out. He was so used to cheating that when faced with doing battle with a determined and prepared opponent in a fair fight, he slinked away with his tail tucked between his legs. All that talk about how tough he was, quotes about quitting, it was all lies by his image consultants. Armstrong showed everyone what he really is, a coward.

 

[noddy69]

That makes no sense. How is pointing out actual police busts and comparing them to the dearth of such busts with US Postal a sum of anything you want to make?

Where is the apology for all the smears, of Wiggans, Hincapie, etc. that have recieved? Right, its only wrong one way - gotcha. THat is the point.

Where is the puboic retraction of accusing Cancellera of mechanical doping? Of Wiggans for talking about cadence when we KNOW he's doping? Of ignoring the Vrijman report? The UCI as a tyranny?

No where.

Moral indignation and double standards noted.

I think you will find the sentence was where you said it would help if someone could read english then wrote a sentence in broken english,sums you up.

Take personal responsibility for your smears, just because others write things does not mean you should follow suit. The fact is you wrote something about someone that is clearly untrue with a view to tarnish his reputation and cast doubt on his views. You didnt even know who he was. That is different to people speculating on doping.
I dont know what you are trying to do apart from making a nuisance of yourself but take responsibility for what you write about someone when it is proven false, as others do when proven wrong.