What was left out of the SI article?

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DirtyWorks said:
Maybe then we can help hasten the end of the myth with some specific forum content?

-Johan Bruyneel/Armstrong dirt. There's got to be quite a bit.
-Armstrong's rumored recreational drug use. This one would be tricky. You run the risk of turning him into an anti-hero.
-Armstrong's penchant for strip clubs and general promiscuity. Another issue with anti-hero potential.
-Livestrong scam. There's a whole new level of scam with livestrong.org?com???. State reporting documents need to be examined to start laying down the basics.
-Tenerife. There's a doping story there. There's got to be. It makes no sense whole teams are flying there just for the weather.
-No one's closed the loop on Wenzel/Carmichael and their doped athletes Strock, Armstrong, Kaiter. There's enough there for another bomb to go off in the non-cycling public. I don't know if it has aged well though.
-Tailwind principals and their list of crimes...................................

You forgot the biggest one....


The sale of non-registered/non-approved drugs.
 
Apr 21, 2009
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and his ocassional sinus issues.

I hope nobody would insinuate that Uniballer dabbles in cocaine. He fought for his life when he had cancer and would never consume PEDs or recreational drugs. That would just be crazy ;)
 
thehog said:
You forgot the biggest one....


The sale of non-registered/non-approved drugs.
I am hoping that will come with an FDA indictment. In that case, it'll be copycat stories. I forgot one discussed frequently, the UCI and Wonderboy. Top of my list is the livestr0ng scam if the FDA's indictment doesn't fly.

The final list. This is good stuff to work on.

-Sale, possession of non-registered non-approved medical drugs. (FDA indictment?)

-Livestrong scam. There's a whole new level of scam with livestrong.org?com???. State reporting documents need to be examined to start laying down the basics. This is a long-range story though. Look at how long it has taken for Wonderboy's doping to be accepted.

-UCI's role in protecting Wonderboy's tests. The advanced knowledge of protocols, test visits, UCI not enforcing positives, etc. Basically, if they got a few key people at WADA to tell all, it would be a fun story. Wonderboy is embattled enough for it to happen. Pat and Hein likely need to be under legal fire for the testing side to talk.

-Johan Bruyneel/Armstrong dirt. There's got to be quite a bit.

-Armstrong's rumored recreational drug use. This one would be tricky. You run the risk of turning him into an anti-hero.

-Armstrong's penchant for strip clubs and general promiscuity. Another issue with anti-hero potential.

-Tenerife. There's a doping story there. There's got to be. It makes no sense whole teams are flying there just for the weather. We know two of doping's most notorious practitioners are there.

-No one's closed the loop on Wenzel/Carmichael and their doped kids Strock, Armstrong, Kaiter. There's enough there for another bomb to go off in the non-cycling public. I don't know if the story has aged well though.

-Tailwind principals and their list of crimes. Weisel's absolute control of the non-profit side (USAC) and owning the profit side (Tailwind), same for the Stapletons.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Not defending wonder boy here but: does his alleged penchant for strip clubs and perhaps his list of ho's in different area codes have anything to do with any of this and is it any of our business?
 
DirtyWorks said:
-Tenerife. There's a doping story there. There's got to be. It makes no sense whole teams are flying there just for the weather. We know two of doping's most notorious practitioners are there.

.
Nice small airport. Access by light plane/boat. Nice and close to Spain. Lax police controls. Lax immigration. I've arrived there and there've not even checked my passport. Plenty of people flowing over the borders which is easy to lay low in the crowd.
 
Boeing said:
Not defending wonder boy here but: does his alleged penchant for strip clubs and perhaps his list of ho's in different area codes have anything to do with any of this and is it any of our business?
Agreed. Thats for the ethics police but he's not going to be arrested for going to a strip club. I think its good that it comes out into the open as a left jab to the groupies for the "amazing father" routine.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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A thought:

There was perhaps too much damning info delivered yesterday. It seems that today, everyone is focused on the HemAssist, yet the Catlin / USOC revelation is perhaps being completely overlooked. That freaks me out. Me thinks that the article was just too much for everyone to digest, and a year from now, when some new people don't think the USOC was corrupt, we'll often be quoting yesterday's article.

If there had been hookers, coke and damning LAF stories added on to the piece, it would be like quickie sex. Very enjoyable for about 5 minutes, but also very quickly lost in time.



I want more foreplay.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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thehog said:
Agreed. Thats for the ethics police but he's not going to be arrested for going to a strip club. I think its good that it comes out into the open as a left jab to the groupies for the "amazing father" routine.
but I want to know, you know? :D

One could argue that this type of info could gain him more respect in some circles.

carry on
 
Clinic Road Map?

DirtyWorks said:
The final list. This is good stuff to work on.

-Sale, possession of non-registered non-approved medical drugs. (FDA indictment?)

-Livestrong scam. There's a whole new level of scam with livestrong.org?com???. State reporting documents need to be examined to start laying down the basics. This is a long-range story though. Look at how long it has taken for Wonderboy's doping to be accepted.

-UCI's role in protecting Wonderboy's tests. The advanced knowledge of protocols, test visits, UCI not enforcing positives, etc. Basically, if they got a few key people at WADA to tell all, it would be a fun story. Wonderboy is embattled enough for it to happen. Pat and Hein likely need to be under legal fire for the testing side to talk.

-Johan Bruyneel/Armstrong dirt. There's got to be quite a bit.

-Armstrong's rumored recreational drug use. This one would be tricky. You run the risk of turning him into an anti-hero.

-Armstrong's penchant for strip clubs and general promiscuity. Another issue with anti-hero potential.

-Tenerife. There's a doping story there. There's got to be. It makes no sense whole teams are flying there just for the weather. We know two of doping's most notorious practitioners are there.

-No one's closed the loop on Wenzel/Carmichael and their doped kids Strock, Armstrong, Kaiter. There's enough there for another bomb to go off in the non-cycling public. I don't know if the story has aged well though.

-Tailwind principals and their list of crimes. Weisel's absolute control of the non-profit side (USAC) and owning the profit side (Tailwind), same for the Stapletons.
If an enterprising reporter wanted to jump in the way back machine, there's Eddie B's doping to retell too. His riders are old enough to come clean without repurcussions, except if there are any working at Trek. That narrative goes straight into Carmichael/Wenzel's child doping of Armstrong and others.

A whole other story is USOC's doping strategy. Wade Exum clearly has anecdotal evidence they condone it. I can't help but recall a snow boarder that had a positive for marijuana when the Olympics were in Japan. Later on, the guy said the positive was intentional. They essentially picked him for the positive. The SI story makes his explanation possible. Scary.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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This guy must know what he's talking about, because he used to be a telemarketer, and he used the word "steroids" eight times. :eek:

"Lance's good works matter above all else, even steroids"
Lance Armstrong has helped save lives. And steroids made that possible.
Lance Armstrong would do the world a favor by eliminating cancer -- and he's trying. His supporters have helped him try as well, but they needed a reason to believe. By winning the Tour de France every year, Armstrong gave them that reason.
http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/14577379/lances-good-works-matter-above-all-else-even-steroids
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Regular reader, new poster thought...

Anyone else wondering if there might be some sort of link between the doctors who were in the room when Armstrong admitted (or didn't) using PEDs, or between the medical facilities (was there one in Indianna and/or Oregon) that Armstrong made donations to, and HemAssist tests and how he might have got hold of it? If he did.

Or am I clutching at wires and tangling them with straws?
 
May 26, 2010
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cyclo-chris said:
Regular reader, new poster thought...

Anyone else wondering if there might be some sort of link between the doctors who were in the room when Armstrong admitted (or didn't) using PEDs, or between the medical facilities (was there one in Indianna and/or Oregon) that Armstrong made donations to, and HemAssist tests and how he might have got hold of it? If he did.

Or am I clutching at wires and tangling them with straws?
nope not far fetched in my opinion as they were not locatable for the SCA trial, which is amazing when you think of it. Doctors just disappearing like that:rolleyes:
 
Oct 25, 2010
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cyclo-chris said:
Regular reader, new poster thought...

Anyone else wondering if there might be some sort of link between the doctors who were in the room when Armstrong admitted (or didn't) using PEDs, or between the medical facilities (was there one in Indianna and/or Oregon) that Armstrong made donations to, and HemAssist tests and how he might have got hold of it? If he did.

Or am I clutching at wires and tangling them with straws?
I think it was more like a one-time "Score".

I don't think a doctor involved in saving his life would go anywhere near that. He was not a wealthy guy then. He'd already blown more than half his million-dollar prize money on a huge house, jetskis, boats, new cars, etc. He was staring at poverty at the time. I think it was a random score by a guy who thought so poorly of himself that he was absolutely willing to risk death to make a comeback.
 
DirtyWorks said:
... I can't help but recall a snow boarder that had a positive for marijuana when the Olympics were in Japan. Later on, the guy said the positive was intentional. They essentially picked him for the positive. The SI story makes his explanation possible. Scary.
Reefer Ross may have been suffering some short-term memory problems when he made that claim.

How would he actually know that? The doping authorities whispered it in Japanese and he translated that to Greek while watching Michael Phelps hit the bong?

Dave.
 
Nov 20, 2010
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thehog said:
Agreed. Thats for the ethics police but he's not going to be arrested for going to a strip club. I think its good that it comes out into the open as a left jab to the groupies for the "amazing father" routine.
Back in the 70s I knew a RC priest, Father X, who loved to go to strip clubs. He was sort of like Ghandi sleeping with young women in his room to tempt him so he could resist. Lance might have been testing himself, no?
 
BotanyBay said:
I think it was more like a one-time "Score".

I don't think a doctor involved in saving his life would go anywhere near that. He was not a wealthy guy then. He'd already blown more than half his million-dollar prize money on a huge house, jetskis, boats, new cars, etc. He was staring at poverty at the time. I think it was a random score by a guy who thought so poorly of himself that he was absolutely willing to risk death to make a comeback.
I dunno, Pharmstrong was playing Russian Roulette with Carmichael, Wenzel and co. This has been corroborated numerous ways, most recently in the SI article. Maybe it was the case Wiesel, Stapleton, and Armstrong 'doubling down' on the cancer recovery story?
 
Jul 17, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
I dunno, Pharmstrong was playing Russian Roulette with Carmichael, Wenzel and co.
can you expand on this thought a bit. I find it interesting indeed but want to know where you are going with it before I comment. Especially the Carmichael reference.
 
cyclo-chris said:
Regular reader, new poster thought...

Anyone else wondering if there might be some sort of link between the doctors who were in the room when Armstrong admitted (or didn't) using PEDs, or between the medical facilities (was there one in Indianna and/or Oregon) that Armstrong made donations to,
My limited conversation with MD's suggests the kind in hospitals aren't on the research side. They are more 'application of medical technology/practices' MD's.


cyclo-chris said:
and HemAssist tests and how he might have got hold of it? If he did.
If Conte at BALCO was going to Stanford's library and combing through the research for therapies to turn into PED's then there's no doubt there are others. Sports economics would reward such a discovery.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
I dunno, Pharmstrong was playing Russian Roulette with Carmichael, Wenzel and co. This has been corroborated numerous ways, most recently in the SI article. Maybe it was the case Wiesel, Stapleton, and Armstrong 'doubling down' on the cancer recovery story?
In his defense, he was just a kid then. You did what the coaches told you or you didn't make the long-team. Period. Even the kids that won all the time trials at selection camp were sometimes not named to the team. It basically created a kiss-*** culture that meant you did what Eddie and his staff told you to do. And you never argued with them. If you did, then you were branded an "Alexi".

We all felt so lucky to even HAVE Eddie B coaching the US team, but looking back, man, we really made some bad choices. The team staff evolved into being child abusers. For what, to win Tour de L'Abitibi?
 
Boeing said:
can you expand on this thought a bit. I find it interesting indeed but want to know where you are going with it before I comment. Especially the Carmichael reference.
http://www.menshealth.com/celebrity-fitness/man-behind-the-man *Page 2* , "Carmichael pulled out all of his star pupil's training logs, dating back to their first meeting in 1990 when Armstrong was a cocky 18-year-old phenom and Carmichael was the new head of the U.S. national team."

search for information on Erich Kaiter and Chris Carmichael and Rene Wenzel. Then do another search for Greg Strock and Chris Carmichael and Rene Wenzel.

Two riders sue Wenzel, Carmichael, USAC for injecting them with who-knows-what without their consent. Armstrong as corroborated by the men's Health URL above is coached by Carmichael in that period as Kaiter and Strock. Coincidence? Hardly. Carmichael, Wenzel and a couple others were doping the kids, Armstrong included.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
If Conte at BALCO was going to Stanford's library and combing through the research for therapies to turn into PED's then there's no doubt there are others. Sports economics would reward such a discovery.
Agreed. Armstrong himself says in one of his books that he read everything he could about all the research and treatments that were available and asked as many questions as he could of the doctors he consulted (or something along those lines). If at that time he was already prepared to dope, which it seem he might have been from the testosterone figures in the SI article, then all it would take would be a snippet of text/conversation to mention HemAssist, and it's then highly thought of properties, to trigger some sort of light-bulb moment.
 

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