What's wrong with ITTs ?

[Captain_Cavman]

Before the director ofTour de France was hit with the stupid stick, there were time bonuses for stages. The prologue separated the sprinters and set up a battle in the first week for the yellow jersey. Now there is no reason for riders other than the GC hopefuls and potential prologue winners to put any effort into the prologue.

I agree with getting rid of time trial bikes. I would be in favor of one bike being used for the entire race, although there would be issues with crashing and mechanicals that would have to be worked out.

Yup, time bonuses for non-mountain stages would increase the interest in the first week.

Also agree with getting rid of TT bikes, they are too ugly. The cycling world would be a more attractive place without them.

Also also agree with the one bike rule, maybe have some sort of parc fermé like in F1.

also also also agree that one of the biggest problems with TTs is the lack of imagination as regards the production and coverage.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I could go for no TT bike in select TT stages especially uphill TTs.

Good post Icefire. Doing the math, I overstated some of the cumulative distances, but still, having 200km total like in the Indurain years (compared to about a third that of today) would be plenty to mix things up. And I agree there would likely have to be two long mountain stages as well to off set it. But it would make for a more interesting Tour. At least to try for a year here and there.

Since most tv of cycling is regular mass start racing, they just don't know how to make good tv of ITTs. They have a lot to learn from biathlon and cross-country skiing production.

This is very true. Some of the technology used in skiing may not apply (giant crane camera covering the course on laps) but things like static cameras using superimposing of previous riders for comparison at splits would be a fairly simple thing to do, and help relate to fans.

I think the Vancouver Olympics showed how far covering XC Skiing has come. It went from being a fairly obscure sport to many some 20 years ago, to what was possibly the most exciting sport to watch in the games. Much of that due to excellent coverage.

 

[Parrulo]

Yup, time bonuses for non-mountain stages would increase the interest in the first week.

Also agree with getting rid of TT bikes, they are too ugly. The cycling world would be a more attractive place without them.

Also also agree with the one bike rule, maybe have some sort of parc fermé like in F1.

also also also agree that one of the biggest problems with TTs is the lack of imagination as regards the production and coverage.

why stop halfway? bring back steal single gear bikes and toe clips and since we are going all vintage and what lets drop the HD transmission and go back to black and high. now that would be awesome.

about the coverage i do think it has to be improved. cameras in the riders bikes/helmets, radio transmissions like on the ronde, on sprint stages have the same type of camera they use for athletics to gives us a champs Élysées type of view for every sprint(best way to see the speed imo) and some other stuff could be made

 

[goggalor]

I agree with the people who want to ban tri bikes. What's the point of having a different bicycle for time trials?

 

[Captain_Cavman]

why stop halfway? bring back steal single gear bikes and top clips and since we are going all vintage and what lets drop the HD transmission and go back to black and high. now that would be awesome...

I know not of which you speak. But it's not about a love of retro, it's about whether there is any point having a specific type of bike allowed for just TTing. All bikes are a compromise, designed to meet arbitrary UCI specifications. Why should TT bikes be a separate category?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Baning TT bikes would certainly make sense from a financial point of few. i mean if you think of it, it's a huge waste of money. usually there are only 2 riders max in a team that can do something in the TT anyway. Having those bikes for so many riders who don'tz really need them anyway is problematic. I'd day skip it! Just allow triathlon handle bars on Normal bikes!

 

[Parrulo]

I know not of which you speak. But it's not about a love of retro, it's about whether there is any point having a specific type of bike allowed for just TTing. All bikes are a compromise, designed to meet arbitrary UCI specifications. Why should TT bikes be a separate category?

because they improve a rider performance on solo efforts when the rider is able to stay aero and still able to put the power. and a rider that can do that should be rewarded for it. not using them would be denying the existence of technology that could improve a riders performance thats why i mentioned going all retro. this is not the hour record . . . .

 

[Aapjes]

because they improve a rider performance on solo efforts when the rider is able to stay aero and still able to put the power. and a rider that can do that should be rewarded for it. not using them would be denying the existence of technology that could improve a riders performance thats why i mentioned going all retro. this is not the hour record . . . .

You can make the exact same argument for recumbents. A recumbent is clearly more aero than a TT bike, so why not go all the way?

It's all rather arbitrary. Why not simply use the only logical argument: 'I just like it that way'?

 

[Parrulo]

You can make the exact same argument for recumbents. A recumbent is clearly more aero than a TT bike, so why not go all the way?

It's all rather arbitrary. Why not simply use the only logical argument: 'I just like it that way'?

a road bike

a tt bike

a recumbent

 

[laziali]

Agree with Descender from a couple pages back.

I'd like to see at least one Tour in the next couple years go back to one like the Indurain years when there were nearly 300km total. I'd like to see two very long ITT's, a fairly long TTT, and a medium uphill TT in the middle. While it stands to reason Contador TT's well enough to handle this, if someone such as Evans old form, or Menchov (or Martin? Or someone on the near horizon) could make up big amounts of time in the TT's, Contador would have to attack them in the mountains, and not just in the last 3km like we too often see.

Man, those were the good old days. Remember Alcala's itt in 89 or 90? And big Mig was just the absolute MASTER smashing Bugno et al

 

[will10]

That bottom picture is a bit like posting a hybrid bike and saying this is what the pros ride.

Now this is a proper TT recumbent:

http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/record.htm#MEDIA/gs.jpg

 

[laziali]

Prologues are not very exciting. More tradition than anything else. Glad to see it gone this year.

You haven't been following cycling for long, have you? Anyone who says that Thierry Marie's and Boardman's prologue wins weren't exciting is a knob. And who could forget Perico Delgado missing the start in '89?

 

[Parrulo]

That bottom picture is a bit like posting a hybrid bike and saying this is what the pros ride.

Now this is a proper TT recumbent:

http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/record.htm#MEDIA/gs.jpg

i just googled recumbent and posted the first pic of something with 2 wheels. the fact that they use 3 wheels for a tt pretty much says how stupid bringing them to the argument is

 

[El Pistolero]

I find prologues to be more exciting than longer time trials actually. Unless there's a big battle for GC going on in those time trials like in 2007 Tour. Or a better example: 1989 Tour

 

[Captain_Cavman]

You haven't been following cycling for long, have you? Anyone who says that Thierry Marie's and Boardman's prologue wins weren't excitingis a knob. And who could forget Perico Delgado missing the start in '89?

Though I am with you in the pro-prologue camp, citing someone not turning up to an event as one of the most exciting things that have ever happened in its history, isn't very persuasive.

 

[laziali]

Though I am with you in the pro-prologue camp, citing someone not turning up to an event as one of the most exciting things that have ever happened in its history, isn't very persuasive.

Dude, I saw that live on tv and I can tell you the wait for perico to show up was excruciating. Almost as excruciatingly exciting as the final day that year as Fignon came into view in the finishing straight ...

YouTube perico and revisit the glory - made me all tingly again

Edit: just remembered Roche missing his TTT start as well when riding for tonton tapis

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Dude, I saw that live on tv and I can tell you the wait for perico to show up was excruciating. Almost as excruciatingly exciting as the final day that year as Fignon came into view in the finishing straight ...

YouTube perico and revisit the glory - made me all tingly again

Edit: just remembered Roche missing his TTT start as well when riding for tonton tapis

Aah. We just saw the highlights of him not being there, which lacked the same sense of excitement.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I find prologues to be more exciting than longer time trials actually. Unless there's a big battle for GC going on in those time trials like in 2007 Tour. Or a better example: 1989 Tour

The short distance of prologues means they COULD do the crane-cam stuff from XC skiing and biathlon too.

 

[abbaskip]

50k ITT in the middle of GT would be great. Mix it up a a bit. Put more emphasis on individual effort.

For different thread, what I could do without is the TTT. While it looks cool it is not really fair.

Yep, the year Jan ride for Bianchi, he won the tour if you take away the TTT

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Yep, the year Jan ride for Bianchi, he won the tour if you take away the TTT

Would he have won the Tour that year without the TTT though? It's a different question. My guess is that he would still have finished second.

 

[will10]

Jan lost the 03 tour on the Alpe

 

[movingtarget]

You haven't been following cycling for long, have you? Anyone who says that Thierry Marie's and Boardman's prologue wins weren't exciting is a knob. And who could forget Perico Delgado missing the start in '89?

Well "the knob," has been following pro cyling for the past 35 years. Watching an idiot, Pedro Delgado missing that start wasn't too exciting. I admired Boardmans TT riding and Marie was obviously a prologue specialist. Prologue's are better than team time trials but I still prefer the mountains, indvidual time trials and even the sprints sometimes. Each to their own.

 

[webvan]

Yep, the year Jan ride for Bianchi, he won the tour if you take away the TTT

No he lost 42 seconds in the TTT if memory serves. Now it could be argued he would have had the yellow jersey after the Albi ITT but then what? See what that little mishap at the foot of Luz did to boost Armstrong's resolve? Anyway Ullrich rode like he had the yellow jersey (great tactics again) when he lead the Armstrong group in pursuit of Vinokourov in one of the stages in the Pyrenees.

 

[abbaskip]

No he lost 42 seconds in the TTT if memory serves. Now it could be argued he would have had the yellow jersey after the Albi ITT but then what? See what that little mishap at the foot of Luz did to boost Armstrong's resolve? Anyway Ullrich rode like he had the yellow jersey (great tactics again) when he lead the Armstrong group in pursuit of Vinokourov in one of the stages in the Pyrenees.

Jan came down in the final time trial because he was chasing so hard to catch Lance as well.

Point is a strong team already gives a big enough advantage. Having a TTT makes it even bigger.

 

[webvan]

What, two TTs in the 2012 TDF ? Looks like they want Cadel to win again and Wigans to podium...Hope the first one is not an ITT though.

2012 Tour de France stages:

P Prologue Sat 30 June Liège > Liège 6.1 km
1 Road stage Sun 1 July Liège > Seraing 198 km
2 Road stage Mon 2 July Visé > Tournai 207 km
3 Road stage Tues 3 July Orchies > Boulogne-sur-Mer 197 km
4 Road stage Weds 4 July Abbeville > Rouen 214 km
5 Road stage Thurs 5 July Rouen > Saint-Quentin 197 km
6 Road stage Fri 6 July Épernay > Metz 210 km
7 Road stage Sat 7 July Tomblaine > La Planche des Belles Filles 199 km
8 Road stage Sun 8 July Belfort > Porrentruy 154 km
9 Time trial Mon 9 July Arc-et-Senans > Besançon 38 km
10 Road stage Weds 11 July Mâcon > Bellegarde-sur-Valserine 194 km
11 Mountains Thurs 12 July Albertville > La Toussuire - Les Sybelles 140 km
12 Mountains Fri 13 July Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Annonay 220 km
13 Road stage Sat 14 July Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux > Le Cap d’Agde 215 km
14 Road stage Sun 15 July Limoux > Foix 192 km
15 Road stage Mon 16 July Samatan > Pau 160 km
16 Mountains Weds 18 July Pau > Bagnères-de-Luchon 197 km
17 Mountains Thurs 19 July Bagnères-de-Luchon > Peyragudes 144 km
18 Road stage Fri 20 July Blagnac > Brive-la-Gaillarde 215 km
19 Time trial Sat 21 July Bonneval > Chartres 52 km
20 Road stage Sun 22 July Rambouillet > Paris Champs-Élysées 130 km