Wheel suggestions

[darkcloud]

I am about to start building up a twenty some year old Pinarello Treviso steel frame. Columbus SL.
Campy Chorus gruppo.
I ride a few times a week. Twenty-fifty miles and wish to ride some GranFondos. Definitely not a racer.
So far, so good. But I know absolutely nothing about wheel-sets which leads me to soliciting suggestions from you guys.
I'm thinking along the lines of middle of the road aluminum wheels with a cross three spoke pattern...Just because that was the way it was done then. And perhaps a nice smooth ride.
Manufacturer/models. Please provide reasons for suggestions. Although I have ridden on and off for many years, I never got into the nuts and bolts of things till now. I want to learn and I appreciate your time and advice. And patience...
I have always ridden clinchers but am not adverse to tubular if there is a compelling reason to do so.
DC

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Here are a few options that would suit that bike perfect.

Rims.

- Ambrosio Excellence (clincher)
- Ambrosio Nemesis (tubualr)
- Mavic Open Pro (clincher)
- Mavic Reflex (tubular)
- H Plus Son TB14 (clincher)

Hubs

- Campy Record
- DT 240, 340, or 350

Spokes

- DT Competition
- Sapim Race

Have a reputable wheel builder lace up any combination of these parts 32 hole 3 cross with brass nipples and you'll have a wheel set that will last a long, long time.. A side note about rims; Ambrosio is most desirable when it comes to the realm of box section eyletted rims, but extremely hard to get in the USA if that's where you're at. I'm maybe one of the only companies in the country that has somewhat of an inventory of Ambrosio. The H Plus Son TB14 is the rim that I'm most impressed with right now. Basically a hybrid of a Ambrosio Nemesis and Excellece, but 23mm wide, so a modern classic. Your main concern should be the build though, can't emphasise that enough. The sum of the parts mean nothing if the wheel build is mediocre.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I am about to start building up a twenty some year old Pinarello Treviso steel frame. Columbus SL.
Campy Chorus gruppo.
I ride a few times a week. Twenty-fifty miles and wish to ride some GranFondos. Definitely not a racer.
So far, so good. But I know absolutely nothing about wheel-sets which leads me to soliciting suggestions from you guys.
I'm thinking along the lines of middle of the road aluminum wheels with a cross three spoke pattern...Just because that was the way it was done then. And perhaps a nice smooth ride.
Manufacturer/models. Please provide reasons for suggestions. Although I have ridden on and off for many years, I never got into the nuts and bolts of things till now. I want to learn and I appreciate your time and advice. And patience...
I have always ridden clinchers but am not adverse to tubular if there is a compelling reason to do so.
DC

Campagnolo, DT, Miche or Velocity hubset

DT, Velocity, Mavic or Ambrosio rims.

DT comp spokes.

Built well.

Got a good wheelbuilder locally? Go talk to them.

 

[darkcloud]

Thank you for the replies. I'm in SoCal so there are probably are sources close by. Any suggestions for my area?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thank you for the replies. I'm in SoCal so there are probably are sources close by. Any suggestions for my area?

Which area/city?

 

[darkcloud]

Los Al-Seal Beach-Huntington Beach area

 

[Boeing]

RDV4, I thought you has some Ambrosia on hand. If not this dude does. along with some nice retro frames and parts

http://www.matuzmaster.hu/en/vintage-frames/#fausto-coppi


Geoff's shipping is reasonable

 

[JayKosta]

Is the bike already setup for 9/10 speed cassette in the rear wheel spacing?
Another concern might be the chainline from the front rings to the rear.

I suggest investigating before trying to put modern wheel on an older frame, there might be complications.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Is the bike already setup for 9/10 speed cassette in the rear wheel spacing?
Another concern might be the chainline from the front rings to the rear.

I suggest investigating before trying to put modern wheel on an older frame, there might be complications.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

Pretty sure his rear spacing is 130 given the vintage, but if the frame is mid to late 80's it might be 126mm, then we'd have problems. In regard to modern grouppos, Campagnolo 9 & 10 speed cassettes are the same spacing, 11 may or may not require a 0.5mm spacer if on a 9/10 fhub depending, 11 is actually a narrower cluster.

 

[darkcloud]

I will have a better idea concerning the spacing on Tuesday when I get it to a shop. Like I said, this is all new to me. So much to know and so little time to learn it.
The suggestions are sincerely appreciated.

 

[richwagmn]

I am about to start building up a twenty some year old Pinarello Treviso steel frame. Columbus SL.
Campy Chorus gruppo.
I ride a few times a week. Twenty-fifty miles and wish to ride some GranFondos. Definitely not a racer.
So far, so good. But I know absolutely nothing about wheel-sets which leads me to soliciting suggestions from you guys.
I'm thinking along the lines of middle of the road aluminum wheels with a cross three spoke pattern...Just because that was the way it was done then. And perhaps a nice smooth ride.
Manufacturer/models. Please provide reasons for suggestions. Although I have ridden on and off for many years, I never got into the nuts and bolts of things till now. I want to learn and I appreciate your time and advice. And patience...
I have always ridden clinchers but am not adverse to tubular if there is a compelling reason to do so.
DC

Have you considered any of the slightly wider road rims available today (23mm). I ride a set of hed belgiums on dt240s. The wider rim lets you use a slightly narrower tire (I now use 23 instead of 25) and run lower pressure (90psi). I use GP4000s and the ride is fabulous. I know velocity has a set and maybe a few others do too.

 

[darkcloud]

126 mm spacing so it looks like this will not be as straight forward as I had hoped.
Now I have to decide if it is still a reasonable project to undertake...

 

[bladerunner]

Nice project!
126mm spacing just means you will need to get some retro equipment. You will still need a standard 100mm front hub/wheel and eBay often has lots of good Campagnolo Record/Nuovo-Record equipment/wheels/freewheels[as opposed to cassettes] that will fit 126mm frames. Actually, in my experience, the vintage Record/Nuovo-Record equipment will last much much longer than the current 10/11 speed range. The only concession is that you will probably need to use down-tube shifters for your rear gears [which I still use on my training bike and it is no problem at all and it requires much less maintenance].
I had a Pinarello Treviso with Campagnolo Nuovo-Record 126mm/6-speed for 8 years and it did 000's of km up & down hills/mountains quite happily.

 

[darkcloud]

Bladerunner,
Thanks for the motivating reply. I was originally going to build it with new Chorus components and have some nice wheels built but I'm stepping back and deciding how to proceed.
I'm taking it to a local shop that came recommended on another thread/topic.
The mechanic is very familiar with vintage and new Campy components so I hopefully I can get moving ahead.
Guess I was naive enough to think that parts were just parts and frames were just frames. Never having done this before, I am learning.
At first I was major bummed but now thinking that an old steel frame with old Campy components just might be pretty cool. Down-tube shifters...I vaguely recall using them.
Jon

 

[Stingray34]

What are the relative pros/cons of different width 700c rims? Do certain width tires go better with some more than others? Are the Mavic Open Pros the same width as the older Open 4CD (I absolutely used to love those rims; had them laced with Athena hubs and DT double-butted spokes - utterly reliable and bombproof when made up by a good wheelbuilder. Mine were 126mm axle spacing as well with Suntour Superbe Pro 7-speed freewheel and down tube shifters.) Those were the days. Had more fun, rode more miles and went faster back then. I didn't miss a thing common to today's bikes. Good luck with your project - it'll be more than worthwhile.

 

[TexPat]

What are the relative pros/cons of different width 700c rims? Do certain width tires go better with some more than others? Are the Mavic Open Pros the same width as the older Open 4CD (I absolutely used to love those rims; had them laced with Athena hubs and DT double-butted spokes - utterly reliable and bombproof when made up by a good wheelbuilder. Mine were 126mm axle spacing as well with Suntour Superbe Pro 7-speed freewheel and down tube shifters.) Those were the days. Had more fun, rode more miles and went faster back then. I didn't miss a thing common to today's bikes. Good luck with your project - it'll be more than worthwhile.

The newer rims are getting wider for the stated purpose of improving the way the rim interacts with the tire eg rolling resistance/profile.
As I recall the Open4 is the same extrusion as the current OpenPro. The latter is made of a stiffer alloy, has a welded seam and machined sidewall which improves braking.
The old ones were certainly the standard of that era. The new ones are even better.
Unfortunately, in the quest of lighter, faster, stronger, most bikes come with wheels that are ill-suited to the majority of riders who sit upon them.
Still, I'll take my STI over downtube shifters any day. And, like you I'm now slower than in the good ol days as a junior on my 7speed freewheel equipped Basso. But, Oh! How wise I am now!

 

[auscyclefan94]

The newer rims are getting wider for the stated purpose of improving the way the rim interacts with the tire eg rolling resistance/profile.
As I recall the Open4 is the same extrusion as the current OpenPro. The latter is made of a stiffer alloy, has a welded seam and machined sidewall which improves braking.
The old ones were certainly the standard of that era. The new ones are even better.
Unfortunately, in the quest of lighter, faster, stronger, most bikes come with wheels that are ill-suited to the majority of riders who sit upon them.
Still, I'll take my STI over downtube shifters any day. And, like you I'm now slower than in the good ol days as a junior on my 7speed freewheel equipped Basso. But, Oh! How wise I am now!

I am sure you would know a lot about wheel selection. Any ZIPP's? (only joking)

 

[bladerunner]

DarkCloud :

Just a suggestion : You can go with the current Campagnolo Chorus or Record groupset as they are readily available [new or otherwise]. You can use the latest brakes, front & rear mechs, bottom-bracket, chainset, seat-post, front-hub and brake-levers [with or without the Ergo mechs]. You will then just need :

1. a set of Campagnolo down-tube gear shifters [which eBay has plenty of, sometimes even ones with Pinarello engraving]
2. a 6 or 7 speed freewheel with an appropriate chain
3. a Campagnolo Nuovo-Record 126mm spacing rear-hub 32h/36h [again from eBay] built with DT stainless spokes and Mavic Open-Pro [or if you can get them, Campagnolo Sigma or Omega Hardox rims]

Add your choice of pedals, saddle, bars, stem .. etc and you will have a bike that will ROCK!! Trust me!

 

[TexPat]

I am sure you would know a lot about wheel selection. Any ZIPP's? (only joking)

Bad joke.

Sold the Zipps as part of the now famous Wheels-for-HGH-Scandal. (Good joke)

 

[TexPat]

DarkCloud :

Just a suggestion : You can go with the current Campagnolo Chorus or Record groupset as they are readily available [new or otherwise]. You can use the latest brakes, front & rear mechs, bottom-bracket, chainset, seat-post, front-hub and brake-levers [with or without the Ergo mechs]. You will then just need :

1. a set of Campagnolo down-tube gear shifters [which eBay has plenty of, sometimes even ones with Pinarello engraving]
2. a 6 or 7 speed freewheel with an appropriate chain
3. a Campagnolo Nuovo-Record 126mm spacing rear-hub 32h/36h [again from eBay] built with DT stainless spokes and Mavic Open-Pro [or if you can get them, Campagnolo Sigma or Omega Hardox rims]

Add your choice of pedals, saddle, bars, stem .. etc and you will have a bike that will ROCK!! Trust me!

Or just get a skilled mechanic to re-jig the frame to accept all of the new kit, which is something you'll never be able to do twenty years from now with most modern frames. Here's where actual improvements have been made: hubs and axles. Back in the good ol' days, broken axles were common occurrences, and one that I encountered twice a year, I'd say. Modern cassette hubs have been far better; I haven't broken an axle since owning a NR hub!
Go all the way retro on the Treviso--which I admit to suffering some nostalgia over--or put the whole modern kit on and enjoy the best of the past and the present.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Or just get a skilled mechanic to re-jig the frame to accept all of the new kit....

That might not work out. In order to accommodate 10 gears, frames subtly changed. My best, wild guess is a 9 speed would work flawlessly.

I second the vote for going with downtube shifters.

 

[bladerunner]

Or just get a skilled mechanic to re-jig the frame to accept all of the new kit, which is something you'll never be able to do twenty years from now with most modern frames. Here's where actual improvements have been made: hubs and axles. Back in the good ol' days, broken axles were common occurrences, and one that I encountered twice a year, I'd say. Modern cassette hubs have been far better; I haven't broken an axle since owning a NR hub!
Go all the way retro on the Treviso--which I admit to suffering some nostalgia over--or put the whole modern kit on and enjoy the best of the past and the present.

I thought about mentioning the "Re-jig" option but I didn't because I have done it in the past with two other frames with good frame-builders and there were problems. Essentially, the simple way to re-jig a steel frame [i.e widen the rear-drop-out spacing from 126mm to 130mm] is to cold-bend it with a jig designed for it. Even a very good & experienced frame-builder would have to take extra care to get everything spot-on and it may not work for every frame [depending on the lengths & angles of the seat-tubes, chain-stays & dropouts]. So, I thought of just mentioning the "down-tube shifter" option as I think it is technically relatively straight-forward. For me, I of course like the new Ergo levers but only for racing. For training & casual riding, I think down-tube levers just fine [much simpler too & hardly any maintenance required].

 

[dsut4392]

Assuming you want to build this bike up to ride it, it's a steel frame, why not get a frame builder to spread the rear triangle to get a modern hub to fit?

Using a vintage (rear) hub will see you stuck with fewer gear ratios and with old shifters, and there is simply no sane argument to be made that "the old stuff works just as well or better" (excepting bottom brackets - my current commuter, once MTB, then tourer, is still on it's original BB, which hasn't been taken apart since 1994). IMO if you value the performance of your equipment, steer clear of any integrated shifting that runs on anything less than 9 speeds.

While there is nothing inherently 'wrong' with down tube shifters, it's a cold day in hEll that I'll ride them again by choice (as anything other than an act of reminiscence). You'll be forever at the mercy of trying to source parts your LBS no longer carries, and paying over the odds for below-par performance. 105 from 2010 works as well as Dura Ace of 2005, let alone Dura Ace of 1990, and I imagine similar progress has been made in Campy land. Shifters, cassettes and chainrings have come a long way since I started riding in the late '80s to the stage they are now almost idiot proof (isn't that right Andy?)

OTOH, if what you want is a museum piece, ignore everything I just posted and have a nice ride I like a nice museum as much as the next guy.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

A note on spreading the rear triangle: It's a solution, but not the best. Steel is a memory material, a 4mm spread is always going to want to come back to it's original state. The only real way to make a 130 from a 126 is to heat up the joints and re-set, this also requires a re-paint, ends up costing more than if he went through the hassle of reselling it and getting a 130 frame to start with. If you want to hang a couple G's worth of modern grouppo on a older frame, better to start with a frame that will accept it in the first place.

 

[Boeing]

A note on spreading the rear triangle: It's a solution, but not the best. Steel is a memory material, a 4mm spread is always going to want to come back to it's original state. The only real way to make a 130 from a 126 is to heat up the joints and re-set, this also requires a re-paint, ends up costing more than if he went through the hassle of reselling it and getting a 130 frame to start with. If you want to hang a couple G's worth of modern grouppo on a older frame, better to start with a frame that will accept it in the first place.

sounds like someone learned the hard way.....

I went through a retro faze and beat my head against the wall with all the comparability issues through trial and error.

my conclusion is out with the old in with the new