::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

[Bustedknuckle]

Anyone have a recommendation for the best 36H 700C rims for loaded touring? I currently have some old DT Swiss rims that have been great, but are slowly but surely wearing out in the Vancouver winter. DT Swiss don't seem to do 36H anymore. I was wondering if their heavy-duty 32H options are really just as strong.

Velocity Dyad.

 

[LugHugger]

I have heard nothing but great things about Royce. Ive only played with a geared hub that was built into a wheel, but it was very smooth. I don't think you'll go wrong at all with that build.

Alternatively, you could try these

 

[aphronesis]

Alternatively, you could try these

Interesting, thanks.

 

[winkybiker]

Velocity Dyad.

Thanks. I wouldn't have considered Velocity as I always associate them with flouro/fixie/hipster chic.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thanks. I wouldn't have considered Velocity as I always associate them with flouro/fixie/hipster chic.

They do some goofy colored rims but most Velocity rims are well made, good MTB/Touring/Road rims.

 

[Hawkwood]

I would appreciate some advice. To start with I'm 85kgs, used to race, but now just do some fast training. I'm normally light on decent handbuilt wheels. My current ones are Ambrosio Excellights on NovaTec A171 and F272 hubs, I think these are the same as the Ambrosio branded hubs, 28 spoked front and rear. These have held up great, despite me hitting some teeth-jarring potholes. My proposed build is the same hubs with H-Son Archetype rims, either 28/24, or 24/20. These rims are deeper, wider, and should be stiffer. I'll be using the wheels on a 10 or 11 speed Campag set-up.

Do you think 24/20 will hold up, plus are there better hub choices out there given I'm running Campag?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I would appreciate some advice. To start with I'm 85kgs, used to race, but now just do some fast training. I'm normally light on decent handbuilt wheels. My current ones are Ambrosio Excellights on NovaTec A171 and F272 hubs, I think these are the same as the Ambrosio branded hubs, 28 spoked front and rear. These have held up great, despite me hitting some teeth-jarring potholes. My proposed build is the same hubs with H-Son Archetype rims, either 28/24, or 24/20. These rims are deeper, wider, and should be stiffer. I'll be using the wheels on a 10 or 11 speed Campag set-up.

Do you think 24/20 will hold up, plus are there better hub choices out there given I'm running Campag?

Go with 28/24 at the minimum, you don't have any good reasons to go with less spokes, most people don't. If I was building these for you I would recommend 32/28. As good as those H Plus Son rims are you have to understand that if you go with a really robust rim like the Archetype that doesn't automatically justify lowering the spoke counts. I don't build 24h rears for anybody unless the rim is at least 40-50mm deep and used on the weekends only.

There are some fantastic hubs out there that are optimized for Campy. Alchemy Elf/Orc, Chris King R45, White Ind. T11.

 

[Hawkwood]

Go with 28/24 at the minimum, you don't have any good reasons to go with less spokes, most people don't. If I was building these for you I would recommend 32/28. As good as those H Plus Son rims are you have to understand that if you go with a really robust rim like the Archetype that doesn't automatically justify lowering the spoke counts. I don't build 24h rears for anybody unless the rim is at least 40-50mm deep and used on the weekends only.

There are some fantastic hubs out there that are optimized for Campy. Alchemy Elf/Orc, Chris King R45, White Ind. T11.

Thank you for the advice, the builder is suggesting 28/24 as well. I've had a pair of 28/28 wheels built with Excellights and they've stood up fine to the cr*ppy roads round here, hence why I'm not looking at 32 at the moment. I seem to be light on well made wheels. All the hubs yiou suggest look very nice, but sadly they're out of my budget at the moment. I particularly like the look of the White Industries ones, but they'd cost me about £350. Might have to think about selling a few bits and pieces to fund a hub upgrade...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I would appreciate some advice. To start with I'm 85kgs, used to race, but now just do some fast training. I'm normally light on decent handbuilt wheels. My current ones are Ambrosio Excellights on NovaTec A171 and F272 hubs, I think these are the same as the Ambrosio branded hubs, 28 spoked front and rear. These have held up great, despite me hitting some teeth-jarring potholes. My proposed build is the same hubs with H-Son Archetype rims, either 28/24, or 24/20. These rims are deeper, wider, and should be stiffer. I'll be using the wheels on a 10 or 11 speed Campag set-up.

Do you think 24/20 will hold up, plus are there better hub choices out there given I'm running Campag?

What Guissepe said. 20/24 even on those rims, at your weight is asking for unreliable wheels. 28/32, additional 16 spokes, weigh about 120 grams.

85000 grams just for you, add another say 7000 or so grams for a light bike...92,000 grams so saving 120 grams on a wheelset that won't be reliable made by anybody, makes no sense.

For hubs, get some Miche, do 32/32, tell the posseurs at the coffee shop to **** off and go ride.

 

[hiero2]

Just ran across this photo of a failed rim. In the discussion of the failure on the page, they talk about some rims not being strong enough to manage compressive failure (the method espoused by Brandt in The Bicycle Wheel). I found it interesting.

http://www.pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-080.html

I rode a couple of rims to the failure point, who knows how many thousands of miles - but many years. Wanted to see what they would do. They failed in a similar fashion, cracking near the spoke holes, grommets coming out.

 

[Boeing]

I'm curious how you builders approach lacing the ever widening Campy rear hub freewheel body and cassette? Dish?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I'm curious how you builders approach lacing the ever widening Campy rear hub freewheel body and cassette? Dish?

Not sure about "ever widening" being just Campy specific. Have you seen what Sh!tmano has done lately? We're pretty much on the level now with dish. Used to dish Campy 1-2mm more, even going as far as re adjusting one of my truing stands specifically for Campy builds, but the last few years I've been using Campy "corrected" hubs by King and White, recently Alchemy.

 

[Boeing]

Not sure about "ever widening" being just Campy specific. Have you seen what Sh!tmano has done lately? We're pretty much on the level now with dish. Used to dish Campy 1-2mm more, even going as far as re adjusting one of my truing stands specifically for Campy builds, but the last few years I've been using Campy "corrected" hubs by King and White, recently Alchemy.

I was in the bunch hiding my poor fitness (on my quiet hubs ) when I noticed a campy record dude I know with a new bike and a wheel with a dish like a salad bowl. He said the 11 is wider etc. just curious


Of those three hubs, which do you recommend? non campy


If someone told you to build the best non carbon wheel-set for racing and uber training what would you use? (sans bling) tall Roadie a bagel short of clyde
specifically hubs rim spokes and nips, lace, holes?

3x?

I ask because i feel your resistance to Mavic and HED and Stans....

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I was in the bunch hiding my poor fitness (on my quiet hubs ) when I noticed a campy record dude I know with a new bike and a wheel with a dish like a salad bowl. He said the 11 is wider etc. just curious


Of those three hubs, which do you recommend? non campy


If someone told you to build the best non carbon wheel-set for racing and uber training what would you use? (sans bling) tall Roadie a bagel short of clyde
specifically hubs rim spokes and nips, lace, holes?

3x?

Don't try to BS me dude, we've been through the ringer with your pretend wheel sets over the last,,, 4 YEARS!!! How many recommends do you need when you don't act on any of them? What happened to "I bleed SRAM bra!!, nothing else!!" What happened to those Profile hubs you were going to send me for a build? Can't your "boy" at ScRAM get you on some Firecraps for "free"?

 

[Boeing]

Don't try to BS me dude, we've been through the ringer with your pretend wheel sets over the last,,, 4 YEARS!!! How many recommends do you need when you don't act on any of them? What happened to "I bleed SRAM bra!!, nothing else!!" What happened to those Profile hubs you were going to send me for a build? Can't your "boy" at ScRAM get you on some Firecraps for "free"?

I'm not really sure how you stay in business bad mouthing product like you do

I cant get a profile in a 32 and the rear hub we built is loud as heck like King 20 fold. I gave a dog walker a heart attack on a night ride. Like a swarm of locusts

the firecrest isnt an everyday wheel for me and I still am a bit sketched braking descending. And I need 'tool' tattooed on my forehead getting dropped off the back with carbon wheels. It doesn't play well at the moment

my 'all roads lead to SRAM' usually follows your badmouthing products I ask about

like the time I asked about HED Belgium because I thought the wider alloy rim would make wheel swap and brake clearance easier between training and the Zipp wheels.

you just said they suck so whateves. Probably because your credit line only gets you 2 rims at a time.

you brought up ' Almighty' hubs. so I asked. hard to believe they can allegedly build so stiff with such a small flange is what I am asking you now.

hard to find a front in a 32 on those too.

last I check this is a discussion forum not a pimp my ride site

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I'm not really sure how you stay in business bad mouthing product like you do.

Been doing this all my life. I know what works and what doesn't. Shall I show up at your office and fill you in on the finer points of your line of work?

I cant get a profile in a 32 and the rear hub we built is loud as heck like King 20 fold. I gave a dog walker a heart attack on a night ride. Like a swarm of locusts.

That's your problem, freewheeling and posing too much. Maybe if you actually pedal'd some you wouldn't be so freaking slow.

the firecrest isnt an everyday wheel for me and I still am a bit sketched braking descending. And I need 'tool' tattooed on my forehead getting dropped off the back with carbon wheels. It doesn't play well at the moment

Who cares, you get them for free and throw them away at the end of the season. It's your own ugly version of consumerism.

my 'all roads lead to SRAM' usually follows your badmouthing products I ask about

Again, this is my living. There's absolute crap out there, and it's what your bro deal usually consists of.

like the time I asked about HED Belgium because I thought the wider alloy rim would make wheel swap and brake clearance easier between training and the Zipp wheels.

you just said they suck so whateves. Probably because your credit line only gets you 2 rims at a time.

I said the better choice of rim would be H Plus Son Archetype, can't help it if you don't listen. Would you like to check my credit line? really? One account orders 10k per year in just rims from me, has been advertising on CN since the very beginning, yet you still wan't to downplay my line of work because you don't like hearing people say the crap you ride is truly crap. Grow up dude, and grow a pair while you're at it.

you brought up ' Almighty' hubs. so I asked. hard to believe they can allegedly build so stiff with such a small flange is what I am asking you now.

hard to find a front in a 32 on those too.

last I check this is a discussion forum not a pimp my ride site

After 4 years of talking about wheels you'd think some of this info would be retained in that skull of yours. You're the perfect example of in one ear out the other. WTF is the point, you're all talk, no walk.

 

[Boeing]

Dude

I'm just asking if the hubs are any good

good grief WTF

are you still ****ed I called you a hipster back in like 2011?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Dude

I'm just asking if the hubs are any good

good grief WTF

are you still ****ed I called you a hipster back in like 2011?

I don't play your games anymore Boeing, you're all talk no action. You've been asking me for advice on and off the forum since the beginning, for 4 F-ING YEARS! Then you ultimately end up going with a ScRAM product or do nothing, then rip me for hating your ScRAM crap. Total circle jerk with you. So, what's the point man?

 

[Boeing]

For f's sake, did it ever occur to you that I might have a QBP and BTI account myself and just might be lacing up my own wheels? trying too that is, and suking at it large

But I will tell you I had to take all 2 of them so far in and have them re-tensioned and dished more than once.

Actually the first pair I did I really just kind of assembled if you can call it that. but it was such a disorganized adventure with the ADD that the shop discovered I mismatched nipples and had one different gauge spoke in the mix. truly a comedy of errors


Buying spokes for just yourself in the quantities they sell sucks. btw

My next adventure will be with the sapim CX Ray 14 g. wont mix those up
So is it to the alchimizzzys it White industries hubs? You know how I feel about King.


Attention Mods. Y'all should charge RVD for his pippin on here. I mean WTF this isn't mtbr after all

Props to you otherwise Bro. it is a skillful art I can't seem to get right sorry it bent your vibe like handspun or some chit

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

For f's sake, did it ever occur to you that I might have a QBP and BTI account myself and just might be lacing up my own wheels? trying too that is, and suking at it large

But I will tell you I had to take all 2 of them so far in and have them re-tensioned and dished more than once.

Actually the first pair I did I really just kind of assembled if you can call it that. but it was such a disorganized adventure with the ADD that the shop discovered I mismatched nipples and had one different gauge spoke in the mix. truly a comedy of errors


Buying spokes for just yourself in the quantities they sell sucks. btw

My next adventure will be with the sapim CX Ray 14 g. wont mix those up
So is it to the alchimizzzys it White industries hubs? You know how I feel about King.


Attention Mods. Y'all should charge RVD for his pippin on here. I mean WTF this isn't mtbr after all

Props to you otherwise Bro. it is a skillful art I can't seem to get right sorry it bent your vibe like handspun or some chit

HA-HA! No wonder! I can use a calculator too, but when it comes to taxes someone else is doing that sh!t for me!

I'll never understand the hangup with King, the only possible problem people have had with them over the years is the noise. So stop freewheeling so much and pedal more. I don't know of any other hub mfg that has a 5 year warranty. Besides they changed the drive chamber up a little bit and they're not nearly as noisy as they once were.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I'm curious how you builders approach lacing the ever widening Campy rear hub freewheel body and cassette? Dish?

The center to flange of Campagnolo hubs have been the same for 15 years, since the present hub design was introduced in 1998. How to approach it?

Design and then built an appropriate wheel for the user. Easy. OC rears help but not essential.

OBTW-the new DA 11s hub center to flange is identical to the Campagnolo one made designed in 1998. Most aftermarket hub makers are getting by with larger than 130mm over axle distances, like DT.

Also, how to buy spokes in the numbers you need? Try a bike shop, dear liazza, a bike shop. Most decent ones sell spokes, and will even calculate the lengths of the ones you need.

 

[Boeing]

Funny how the unwritten code of this forum (siting evidence beyond personal experience and myopic opinion from a sample survey proportionate to the population) goes unchecked in the bikes and gear section .
and all the experts telling each other how great they are......

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Funny how the unwritten code of this forum (siting evidence beyond personal experience and myopic opinion from a sample survey proportionate to the population) goes unchecked in the bikes and gear section .
and all the experts telling each other how great they are......

You're delusional, as per usual. Are you abusing your pain pills again?

 

[hiero2]

Have a cup a tea, gents. Take 5 and chill a bit. Although I notice you are familiar with each other, so you two are probably not feeling unduly bothered by the exchange, I would like to see the tone a little more - quiet.

Btw - Boeing - re the lack of citations to back opinions in this section of the forum. I agree with what you say - but quoting sources is actually in the WRITTEN rules - which I think is a bit excessive. Anyway, most of the stuff discussed here doesn't have a lot of scientific testing, and expert opinion is being sought. Which means there wouldn't BE any source to quote. Now, as to exactly how expert the experts here are, is a matter for another discussion, and for your own judgement.

 

[hiero2]

Meanwhile, I have a question for you guys. Recently read this Lennard Zinn post: http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-building-wheels-and-keeping-them-covered_275991 about 24 hole rims with 32 hole hubs.

!!???!!?

I'm guessing you would just skip every 4th hole while lacing? Wouldn't that come up asymmetric?