When did you realize LA was a cheat?

[Racelap]

2010 Landis.

I am a fairly casual fan of cycling, and for a long time I bought the whole line about it being a French vendetta. I didn't know anything about the specific incidents, or the bullying for that matter. I stopped liking LA in general after he dumped his wife and hooked up with Sheryl Crow, who herself has a history of betraying friends for personal gain.

I learned about the rest later, and the 2010 Landis stuff is what sealed it for me.

Very, very disappointing.

Then I read about what happened with Mike Anderson on here and my opinion went from disappointment in LA to loathing. Jerk.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

I realized it when he and I swam against each other when we were 12, I got fifth.

 

[iZnoGouD]

after coming back from cancer why would he dope?
his results come from his unique motivation and dedication to the sport he loves.

 

[Ozzie2]

Being from Adelaide, I had friends involved in the industry and the Institute/ Academy thats based there.

I was under NO illusion what cyclists do and don't do.

The book "Positive" by Australian Discuss Thrower Werner Reiterer was another breakthough from denial moment

That and when our 14 yr old girl swimmers were beating the times that those Chinese Swimmers (with the massive lat's and physiques) were doing when the whole world had righteous indignation agains them, that was the end for me.

Oh, and Ian Thorpes size 17 feet that the media were_never_allowed to mention in any interview or the TV station was blackbanned from any interviews with him.

When the stars came off my eyes as to what our "dear" sportspeople were clearly doing, then I knew LA was too

My issue is not/ was not that he did, that's professional sport and the pointy end (enduring appalling stresses on the body), my objection was that he made himself to be greater than the sport, greater than the bike.

Which is why I don't enjoy seeing a certain other young rider's Over the top celebrations.

You can win, but you don't rub it in the face of the others

When LA started rubbing it in the face of cycling, that was when I knew.

 

[Poursuivant]

It was my house and I still stand by my bet! ... Froome and others no idea but Wiggins clean. His performance has a totally different character to Armstrong, Riis and other dopers - he is not roaring off up the road like they did. It's more like Evans and other 'grinders' ... And I know many have a different opinion.

But with reference to the original question ... It's why I thought LA was doping as well as one of the reasons I don't think Wiggins is.

T

Funnily enough I was watching Riis on hautacam on youtube today and it is ridiculous. Compare it to Wiggins and it is chalk and cheese, but don't tell the resident doubters of every single winner on here.

In answer to the OP, I need to thank the clinic for this, a case of where their scepticism was spot on.

I wonder how the "lay" people will see Lance in a years time.

 

[veganrob]

I believe it was 2001. A good friend who had also recovered from testicular cancer and was a huge fan of LA said I had to watch the tour to see Lance. I was totally mtb at time. When I saw how they would just motor up mtns and destroy everyone else I just said "whoa, these guys are way doped up".

BTW. same buddy had a chance to meet Lance at an event in Indy later. Was very excited about it. He came back really disappointed, told us what a d1ckhead he was.

 

[Cloxxki]

BTW. same buddy had a chance to meet Lance at an event in Indy later. Was very excited about it. He came back really disappointed, told us what a d1ckhead he was.

Glad to hear your buddy made it as well. Where would he be in this poll? The personal meeting perhaps sealing the deal? I know I am quicker to accept guilt of people I regard of lowly, it's human.
I wish cancer sufferers and survivors would be more vocal on the open minded and self-researched side of the matter.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I never liked him.

When I first heard of him I couldn't believe that he seemed so 'perfect'....
Winner, beat cancer, beautiful wife & kids...the whole thing...

Then I saw him on tv and saw what a d?ck he really was and started reading about his denials. Repulsed by his demeanor....

 

[veganrob]

Glad to hear your buddy made it as well. Where would he be in this poll? The personal meeting perhaps sealing the deal? I know I am quicker to accept guilt of people I regard of lowly, it's human.
I wish cancer sufferers and survivors would be more vocal on the open minded and self-researched side of the matter.

Meeting him indeed sealed the deal. We still watched the tour and I started really getting into road racing after that but it was pretty obvious how unreal it all was.

 

[oldcrank]

Everybody knew when he joined Thom "the weasel" Weisel,
Eddy B and Steve Hegg on Subaru-Montgomery in 1990.

 

[ggusta]

Sometimes, intelligent people just have to question themselves and work it out for themselves. You have to realize, A) I am new to cycling (2004) and a spectator of the sport (2005). I chose 'Some other time.'

At some point after defending Floyd tirelessly, I gradually came to reality with Lance while still defending Floyd, I was a real die hard with Floyd. Stage 17 was too good to let go of, I couldn't let it go. But sooner or later common sense and just facts won out over emotion. In the course of listening to interviews with guys like Walsh and Lemond one can generally hear the ring of truth when someone is speaking sincerely, particularly if that person is alleging this type of behavior by a legend. I knew they were telling the truth, but it took a while to accept.

There wasn't a huge amount of time between when I realized Floyd was, I won't say a fraud, he beat guys who were just as doped as he was, but lying for certain and the time he admitted the whole sham that is un-doped pro-cycling. And now I just enjoy the sport for what it is, just like every other sport. Bunch of pros trying to make as much as they can any way they can and we are the beneficiaries of that whether it be doped or just hard work and natural talent.

I am not bitter about Lance being a doper whatsoever. At that level I think it is virtually expected of everyone f you want to keep your job. It's the massive fraud that he has built on the lies, the bullying, bribing. It's hubris in the extreme. There is a book or maybe a whole shelf of books waiting to be written about the truth of how vile this one person could be. No one's going to write the story of Hamilton or Landis, these are decent people who did bad things and eventually their conscience couldn't carry the weight any longer. We all know that story, we all live that story in one fashion or another if you ever hope to become an adult.

Hubris defined from brittannica article:
hubris


hubris, Greek hybris, in Classical Athenian usage, the intentional use of violence to humiliate or degrade. The most famous example was the case of Meidias, who punched the orator Demosthenes in the face when the latter was dressed in ceremonial robes and performing an official function. Hubris could also characterize rape. Hubris was a crime at least from the time of Solon (6th century bc), and any citizen could bring charges against another party, as was the case also for treason or impiety. (In contrast, only a member of the victim’s family could bring charges for murder.)
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/274625/hubris

 

[Runitout]

I can't remember when I first thought I knew. After Festina, it would be ridiculous to assume any rider is clean. The Simeoni Incident was when I knew. There was no explanation for that behavior consistent with not doping.

It was also when I realised what an enormous tool he was. I usually give people I have not met a pass, but if he's not sociopathic, he's doing his best audition.

 

[sittingbison]

I selected option 1, 1999. However to be totally honest I think it was the world championship in 1993 that first raised my suspicions.

 

[irongrl]

2010 Landis.

I am a fairly casual fan of cycling, and for a long time I bought the whole line about it being a French vendetta. I didn't know anything about the specific incidents, or the bullying for that matter. I stopped liking LA in general after he dumped his wife and hooked up with Sheryl Crow, who herself has a history of betraying friends for personal gain.

I learned about the rest later, and the 2010 Landis stuff is what sealed it for me.

Very, very disappointing.

Then I read about what happened with Mike Anderson on here and my opinion went from disappointment in LA to loathing. Jerk.

I also was a casual fan who stopped liking LA after he left his wife and hooked up with Crow. I didn't really start following bike racing until 2008. I started reading this forum and then all the Landis stuff came out. Yes, very disappointing.

 

[pleyser]

For cycling in general, I've assumed most were doped pretty much since I started watching in 1988. Pedro Delgado escaped on a technicality that year. Just the nature of a Grand Tour is a cause to think most are doped. Averaging 38-42 km/h for 3000+ km's in three weeks over some of the most difficult terrain in Europe will raise suspicions on its own.

 

[PotentialPro]

Trying to triangulate. Do you remember the race? Was in in So. Cal?

Dave.

I raced against him in Long Beach on the Indy Car course in 1992 I think, nothing spectacular there from him. Nor should there be in a giant criterium.

 

[Jeremiah]

Funny

I never liked him.

When I first heard of him I couldn't believe that he seemed so 'perfect'....
Winner, beat cancer, beautiful wife & kids...the whole thing...

Then I saw him on tv and saw what a d?ck he really was and started reading about his denials. Repulsed by his demeanor....

When I heard LeMond's comments and then the Ferrari connection I wondered what was up.

What sealed the deal for me was the separation from his wife in 2003. I had read his book and saw how he spoke of her in the book. When they separated I knew he would lie about anything. There was some rumor going around that her father was incensed and wanted to kick his ***.

Anyway, after what she had to go through to have those kids and then he dumped her, I never believed a thing he said after that.

 

[Jeremiah]

1989 when he showed to to a race looking like a bull

What did he look like before that race?

 

[thehog]

I realized it when he and I swam against each other when we were 12, I got fifth.

I heard he was jacked on m&m's and skittles.

 

[D-Queued]

I raced against him in Long Beach on the Indy Car course in 1992 I think, nothing spectacular there from him. Nor should there be in a giant criterium.

Thanks. I was in a crit near Sta Barbara, I think (not Goleta, and not SLO). Which is why I ask (trying to remember the name of the crit). It wasn't in Long Beach, but could have been the same year.

He impressed everyone... with his 'tude.

Dave.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

1991 - Gastown Grand Prix, Vancouver. Heard lots of rumors. Decided they were true.

John Swanson

 

[Turner29]

1991 - Gastown Grand Prix, Vancouver. Heard lots of rumors. Decided they were true.

John Swanson

John, you always have my respect.

 

[Koba80]

As someone said above, for me, by implication, it was 1998 - Festina. Thereafter it was not whether he was doping, nor how much, but just his own personal triathlon of how far he could regress cycling's reputation, human good nature, and credulity into nothing.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

The Simeoni multiple confrontations like:
- LA: "Simeoni's just trying to destroy cycling"
- Chasing down Simeoni at the Tour
really started to get me suspicious.
The final dominoes for me were the other +ives from former teammates like Roberto, Floyd, Tyler, Manuel. Public admissions by Frankie Andreu, Floyd, & Tyler just confirmed what I felt.

 

[broken chain]

2003 when he lost almost 3 minutes to Ullrich in the time trial.
Classic symtoms of EPO overdose.
Claims he had had the flu.
Totally dehydrated.Lips look like had just dippped his face in a bowl of flour.