When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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Jul 10, 2010
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winkybiker said:
My question is regarding the type of pharmaceuticals that afflicted both Horner and Leipheimer causing their (bald) heads to grow to such enormous bobble-headed sizes. I know HGH caused Hincapie, Anderson and Stephens to grow comically enlarged jaws, but what new(ish) and bizzare dope caused the gigantic heads of Horner and Leipheimer?
Actually, you "know" nothing of the kind. Unfortunately, you "know" very little or nothing about what these guys are doing today. This is not personal, you are not alone in making this mistake. It has become frequent in these forums - confusing personal convictions for verifiable fact.

Imo, we have become the frog in the frying pan. Where once links, evidence, and identification as OPINION were enforced, we have gradually gotten lax, as the atmosphere around us changed.

Desist. Say "I'll bet". Say "IMO". Even say "IMHO", if you believe yourself to be humble. But desist from insisting something is known, which is not.

Btw, defend Horner I do not, grasshopper. IMHO, an excellent example of The Force, he is.

Back to the fun . . .cheers.
 
hiero2 said:
Actually, you "know" nothing of the kind. Unfortunately, you "know" very little or nothing about what these guys are doing today. This is not personal, you are not alone in making this mistake. It has become frequent in these forums - confusing personal convictions for verifiable fact.

Imo, we have become the frog in the frying pan. Where once links, evidence, and identification as OPINION were enforced, we have gradually gotten lax, as the atmosphere around us changed.

Desist. Say "I'll bet". Say "IMO". Even say "IMHO", if you believe yourself to be humble. But desist from insisting something is known, which is not.

Btw, defend Horner I do not, grasshopper. IMHO, an excellent example of The Force, he is.

Back to the fun . . .cheers.
SO, are you saying that a good example of Chris Horner is a fictiious character in a sci-fi movie. Or am I missing something.

I remember not too long ago Chewbacca was a regular poster here. Don't know what happened to him. The hoe zone maybe. No Luke Skywalker that I recall. Never mind...:D
 
Jun 25, 2013
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JimmyFingers said:
This is sport, not a criminal court. So what, Froome is a murderer and Horner is a first time petty thief?

You dope to win you cheat, that's the line. If you're going to qualify it with the degree of cheating (so what the length of time you're doping, the products you're using, the number of products you're using and variety of sentences for each, which means you'd have to quantify exactly the advantage gained for each rider?), for me you are the top of the slippery slope.
Exactly everyone is a criminal if proven to be so. Degrees of criminality should only come in when adjudicating on punishment to be served.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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veganrob said:
SO, are you saying that a good example of Chris Horner is a fictiious character in a sci-fi movie. Or am I missing something.

I remember not too long ago Chewbacca was a regular poster here. Don't know what happened to him. The hoe zone maybe. No Luke Skywalker that I recall. Never mind...:D
Forgive me if my humor was - whatever it was! Just my mind, playing with the words, and having fun. You'll notice, if attentive, that it was not even one movie source used, but at least two. I like Chewie. But that is another tale.

Chris Horner - would be a good name for a character in Flash Gordon - it sounds right. Imho, Horner has had some sci-fi like support over the years - somewhere - sometime - over the rainbow - under the stairs - through the looking glass - tunneling the wormhole - somewhere - sometime.

But that's not the point. I can't say I KNOW any of this to be true, no matter how certain I am of it. But I'd be happy to give odds to anyone who will take them. The point is I can't say I KNOW it - not honestly. And if I did, I would be guilty of bad posting etiquette - not to mention putting myself in line to be accused of trolling, baiting, and other assorted labels.

Get the picture?

Now then, gentlemen, remember your etiquette.
- What's that for?
- We didn't do nothin'!
That's in case you do when I'm not around!
But the joke works better when ya see it.
 
JimmyFingers said:
Love this stuff, keep going, tell me more about the poor American riders of Horner's generation, they had it tough right?
You do realize I'm talking about the ones racing in the States, right?

I'm writing on a 4th grade level for your benefit. The least you can do is exert yourself to read on it.
 
roundabout said:
No EPO at Saturn. No, Sir, too poor. :eek:
Yeah, that one year Horner spent on Saturn. Say, what happened to that team at the end of that year, given it was so rich?

Oh, that's right. It folded because it couldn't find another sponsor. So Horner went to Webcor. Another rich team, right? :rolleyes:
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Moose McKnuckles said:
You do realize I'm talking about the ones racing in the States, right?

I'm writing on a 4th grade level for your benefit. The least you can do is exert yourself to read on it.
So the ones who raced in Europe never raced in the States? And the races in the States of that era were sparkly clean, right?

Cute little insult thrown in btw, definitely of 4th grade standard too.
 
hiero2 said:
Actually, you "know" nothing of the kind. Unfortunately, you "know" very little or nothing about what these guys are doing today. This is not personal, you are not alone in making this mistake. It has become frequent in these forums - confusing personal convictions for verifiable fact.

Imo, we have become the frog in the frying pan. Where once links, evidence, and identification as OPINION were enforced, we have gradually gotten lax, as the atmosphere around us changed.

Desist. Say "I'll bet". Say "IMO". Even say "IMHO", if you believe yourself to be humble. But desist from insisting something is known, which is not.

Btw, defend Horner I do not, grasshopper. IMHO, an excellent example of The Force, he is.

Back to the fun . . .cheers.
Nietzsche: "There are no facts, only interpretations."

;)
 
Oct 16, 2009
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Moose McKnuckles said:
First, racers were getting paid peanuts in the US, so affording the types of drugs that the Euro peloton was getting was a non-starter. You think Webcor had the same budget as Gewiss or Festina?

We're not talking about American sport in general. We're talking about American cycling, the poor-man's sport back in the 1990s. Heck, it still is for most of the racers.
He may not have been doping Tour de France style, but that doesn't mean he was clean. An unsophisticated drug program doesn't have to cost that much. I find it hard to believe the 90s US cycling scene was clean, when doping seems to be highly prevalent in almost every other American sporting scene. Btw, there were a lot of dirt poor dopers in Europe in the 90s, still are.
 
Jul 1, 2009
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goggalor said:
He may not have been doping Tour de France style, but that doesn't mean he was clean. An unsophisticated drug program doesn't have to cost that much. I find it hard to believe the 90s US cycling scene was clean, when doping seems to be highly prevalent in almost every other American sporting scene. Btw, there were a lot of dirt poor dopers in Europe in the 90s, still are.
Agreed! Good post!
 
goggalor said:
He may not have been doping Tour de France style, but that doesn't mean he was clean. An unsophisticated drug program doesn't have to cost that much. I find it hard to believe the 90s US cycling scene was clean, when doping seems to be highly prevalent in almost every other American sporting scene. Btw, there were a lot of dirt poor dopers in Europe in the 90s, still are.
Honestly, I don't know how he raced back then, and what he could afford, though it doesn't seem as though he had the money to afford much. His teams weren't exactly top-notch. The guy was racing for Webcor in 2004, while the Euros were racing on Postal/Discovery, Once, or whatever. Not much comparison there in terms of budget.

But maybe, while others were getting blood bags, EPO, and testosterone/HGH cocktails, Horner was also doping with some dodgy GNC supplements.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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gobuck said:
Horner and the Klasna brothers were going to Mexico back in the 90's for their GNC products.
Along with many others. They may not have returned with coolers of EPO but that was pretty standard fare. EPO showed up in US pelotons in late 90's and 00's...it was pretty obvious. I remember Klasna getting yelled at by a Motorola rider for not pulling in a break because they knew his credentials.
 

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