When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[Catwhoorg]

Netserk's post is triggering a memory. Did JV make a similar claim a while back?

JV described Horners Bipassport as a roller coaster ride (or similar but very colorful description)

Which looking at the data he released, is pretty accurate

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I would add Astana to that list. Some big names they signed-
OPQS: Uran.
Sky: No one really, Sebastian Henao?
Movistar: Izagirre? Gadret?
BMC: Biggest name Atapuma probably.
Katusha: No real big names signed last year.

Astana signed Scarponi, also Pellizotti but he didn't end up racing with them.

Except it had to be someone Tinkoff were looking at but ended up not hiring - go google "samuel samchez tinkoff" - there's a tonne of telling interviews.

 

[Afrank]

Yes, Sanchez. Completely blanked that he signed for BMC. Sounds likely.

 

[jens_attacks]

sanchez indeed, i agree too.

 

[hrotha]

Sanchez obviously. A teflon doper if there ever was one.

He's not even the no. 1 teflon doper named Sánchez though.

 

[Oldman]

Hey, Rebellin is looking for a ProTour ride. Chris could make a good living charging what the other docs demand. Second career?

 

[hfer07]

Papi just coming 2nd on today's stage of the T. O. Utah highlights his gaining form heading toward la Vuelta, when he'll be ready to climb along Froome & Quintana.....

just wait

 

[Granville57]

Papi just coming 2nd on today's stage of the T. O. Utah highlights his gaining form heading toward la Vuelta, when he'll be ready to climb along Froome & Quintana.....

just wait

Last year, Horner finished the GC in 2nd place at 1' 25' behind Danielson.

Things seem to be going perfectly to plan.

 

[Energy Starr]

Last year, Horner finished the GC in 2nd place at 1' 25' behind Danielson.

Things seem to be going perfectly to plan.

Agreed. The Vuelta might already be over!

 

[Master50]

CH is not the only one who loves to ride at a high age. Greg LeMond just descent at 100 km/h while doing the after stage TdF commenting on Eurosport. Ullrich still loves to ride. Others do, many do, millions do... Horner does. But with one exception: He, if clean (LOL), must be the single one most competitive at age 40whatever rider in the history of mankind. The chosen one. The best ever*. You really believe that? OFC you don´t. You just try to defend the undefendable. And you know it... highest W/Kg at 41, almost breaking old doper records at Vuelta 2013, while unable to hold wheels of clean riders in his mid to late 20s, and so on... you have read it a hundred times here. But I am good to you: I just repeated it for you, only you. Until you get it. I have no problem with that.

* In that case it should have been no problem for him to be at least on one GT roster in his first europe stint. Not only didn´t he, no, he got fired. That bad the best ever was.
The chosen one would, even as dom, finish 2nd behind his captain (like LeMond in 1985). He didn´t... He is just a reckless doper. That´s it. No more, no less.

Yes I know a lot of old guys that are unbelievable more than a few that hold their own on fast group rides. One that is still doing 3 to 600 km a week in his 70s, One in his mid 60s has been on 2 world championships podiums with a gold and a silver. He out climbs a lot of 20 something riders. Maybe it is a terribly romantic mistake to imagine CH is doing it real.
that first GT experience is a fine example of a clean rider floundering in that peloton. He got fired because he didn't dope
As for GL. He still has one of the best set of lungs. Get him racing fit and I bet he would do pretty well. A lot of riders retire long before their bodies can't. Age brings fatigue. A pro cyclist has a hard life and retiring starts to be the objective for many so I too find a 40 something rider rare but incapable? Just unlikely. I really don't like to use jeannie longo as an example of a successful old athlete but perhaps Maria Cannis or Beryl Burton as riders doing very well against younger riders well past their 30s. These two retired before EPO. My point is his age is not the final obstacle you make it to be, just another factor. If that Vuelta had a 53 Km TT he might have come right off the podium and it was his climbing that won it. In that arena CH has always been remarkable in that the harder the climb the better he does. Of course for me to be right the entire peloton has to be pretty clean. I get that history may make your position a good bet. You do have good odds.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

If Horner beats Froomedog in the Vuelta, Velorooms will explode the intertubes.

 

[Rollthedice]

Papi just coming 2nd on today's stage of the T. O. Utah highlights his gaining form heading toward la Vuelta, when he'll be ready to climb along Froome & Quintana.....

just wait

He is still sick and on various medication. I have no doubt he'll be ready in "Wuelta".

 

[Oldman]

Yes I know a lot of old guys that are unbelievable more than a few that hold their own on fast group rides. One that is still doing 3 to 600 km a week in his 70s, One in his mid 60s has been on 2 world championships podiums with a gold and a silver. He out climbs a lot of 20 something riders. Maybe it is a terribly romantic mistake to imagine CH is doing it real.
that first GT experience is a fine example of a clean rider floundering in that peloton. He got fired because he didn't dope
As for GL. He still has one of the best set of lungs. Get him racing fit and I bet he would do pretty well. A lot of riders retire long before their bodies can't. Age brings fatigue. A pro cyclist has a hard life and retiring starts to be the objective for many so I too find a 40 something rider rare but incapable? Just unlikely. I really don't like to use jeannie longo as an example of a successful old athlete but perhaps Maria Cannis or Beryl Burton as riders doing very well against younger riders well past their 30s. These two retired before EPO. My point is his age is not the final obstacle you make it to be, just another factor. If that Vuelta had a 53 Km TT he might have come right off the podium and it was his climbing that won it. In that arena CH has always been remarkable in that the harder the climb the better he does. Of course for me to be right the entire peloton has to be pretty clean. I get that history may make your position a good bet. You do have good odds.

If you're talking about Franz Hammer, yes he is a specimen. Ask him; he know's Horner is not living in Your fantasy world.

 

[Elagabalus]

If Horner beats Froomedog in the Vuelta, Velorooms will explode the intertubes.

Yes!! Here's to a great HornDawg battle!!!

 

[DirtyWorks]

Yes!! Here's to a great HornDawg battle!!!

IMO, the wheels are going to fall off the Sky program at the Vuelta. Again.

Horner will definitely ride with the aliens if he can keep the rubber side down.

 

[Wallace]

Yes I know a lot of old guys that are unbelievable more than a few that hold their own on fast group rides. One that is still doing 3 to 600 km a week in his 70s, One in his mid 60s has been on 2 world championships podiums with a gold and a silver. He out climbs a lot of 20 something riders. Maybe it is a terribly romantic mistake to imagine CH is doing it real.
that first GT experience is a fine example of a clean rider floundering in that peloton. He got fired because he didn't dope
As for GL. He still has one of the best set of lungs. Get him racing fit and I bet he would do pretty well. A lot of riders retire long before their bodies can't. Age brings fatigue. A pro cyclist has a hard life and retiring starts to be the objective for many so I too find a 40 something rider rare but incapable? Just unlikely. I really don't like to use jeannie longo as an example of a successful old athlete but perhaps Maria Cannis or Beryl Burton as riders doing very well against younger riders well past their 30s. These two retired before EPO. My point is his age is not the final obstacle you make it to be, just another factor. If that Vuelta had a 53 Km TT he might have come right off the podium and it was his climbing that won it. In that arena CH has always been remarkable in that the harder the climb the better he does. Of course for me to be right the entire peloton has to be pretty clean. I get that history may make your position a good bet. You do have good odds.

*Sigh* The male body hits its peak at age 30. After that muscle mass, bone mineral and breathing capacity all decline, progressively. It isn't ageist to point this out, it's just the sad facts of mortality. This is why riders over the age of 40 have never (before CH) won GTs. It has nothing to do with mindset or wanting to retire. It doesn't matter how talented Horner used to be/has always been. He is simply too old to be believably winning Grand Tours.

I know lots of totally hard-a$$ed vets who can climb, TT, race, put in major miles and stomp on killer group rides, but the difference between doing all that and racing professionally in Europe is like the difference between commuting and Formula 1 racing (as in: you may be using a similar kind of vehicle, but that's where the similarity ends).

Finally: GL can't get racing fit: he has lead pellets in his heart and his doctor has forbidden serious aerobic exercise as it leeches lead into his blood stream. If he could, I'm sure he'd be an awesome vet.

 

[Energy Starr]

*Sigh* The male body hits its peak at age 30. After that muscle mass, bone mineral and breathing capacity all decline, progressively. It isn't ageist to point this out, it's just the sad facts of mortality. This is why riders over the age of 40 have never (before CH) won GTs. It has nothing to do with mindset or wanting to retire. It doesn't matter how talented Horner used to be/has always been. He is simply too old to be believably winning Grand Tours.

I know lots of totally hard-a$$ed vets who can climb, TT, race, put in major miles and stomp on killer group rides, but the difference between doing all that and racing professionally in Europe is like the difference between commuting and Formula 1 racing (as in: you may be using a similar kind of vehicle, but that's where the similarity ends).

Finally: GL can't get racing fit: he has lead pellets in his heart and his doctor has forbidden serious aerobic exercise as it leeches lead into his blood stream. If he could, I'm sure he'd be an awesome vet.

Oh stop it....there's peds, oops, I mean meds for all those nasty aging symptoms!

 

[MacRoadie]

Oh stop it....there's peds, oops, I mean meds for all those nasty aging symptoms!

Cheeky!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

*Sigh* The male body hits its peak at age 30. After that muscle mass, bone mineral and breathing capacity all decline, progressively. It isn't ageist to point this out, it's just the sad facts of mortality. This is why riders over the age of 40 have never (before CH) won GTs.

I have been reading research recently that indicates the muscle loss observed previously has been more due to reduced activity than an age-specific thing.

Not to say there are not age-related effects, but they are mitigatable far more than previously thought.

 

[Energy Starr]

I have been reading research recently that indicates the muscle loss observed previously has been more due to reduced activity than an age-specific thing.

Not to say there are not age-related effects, but they are mitigatable far more than previously thought.

Any specific stuff about testosterone? Just curious as to the current line of thought. I've read about the loss being age specific, but maybe that's old line thinking.

 

[zigmeister]

I have been reading research recently that indicates the muscle loss observed previously has been more due to reduced activity than an age-specific thing.

Not to say there are not age-related effects, but they are mitigatable far more than previously thought.

Always nice to see guys appearing from 20yrs in the past with information that has been known for that amount of time.

You post a lot on here with opinions that are often "expert" in tone. Yet, you are just now learning something about the human body, aging, health, drugs that can effect health and performance? I mean, at a very high level of knowledge? This is 101 basic knowledge for many what you stated above that are in the know with true knowledge and experience.

Not sure how you think you can continue to make posts like that and be taken seriously by anybody that really understands the science, and has utilized/experienced PEDs directly.

Any specific stuff about testosterone? Just curious as to the current line of thought. I've read about the loss being age specific, but maybe that's old line thinking.

Guys, let me give you some direction. Bodybuilders publicly and typically have been utilizing and at the forefront of research/development, and manufacturers (legit and underground), along with other high-level athletes and government programs, for decades and decades regarding PEDs.

Olympic, high level athletes in various countries for endurance sports as well that are high muscle-mass endeavors, as well.

There is so much information that is easily found out there, you just need to take some time and effort, years worth though, to become very knowledgeable and an expert of many of these topics related to drugs and the effects on the body, particularly as it relates to performance enhancing characteristics.

Posts like the above really come off as complete amateurs and clueless about PEDs in general when statements about certain drugs, that have been studied an insane amount and published over the years, are so-well known their effects. It is not joke when people say google is your friend today. 20yrs ago, good luck finding this information. Today so easy. This leads to people like myself who read your posts often, to not take them serious whatsoever.

On top of that, just because somebody is a "doping" expert, wow, we hear that a lot in the world of sports lately. The Asheden's etc...haha...yeah, what an expert...if it weren't for Floyd and Tyler, he wouldn't have a clue WTF all of those blood values were doing and why exactly until they told the "experts" how/what they were using. Anybody can put two-two together after the fact and say, OH! I see why this blood value is now doing this or that. Otherwise, they would still be scratching their heads speculating WTF was going on all that time.

The leading/bleeding edge (pun intended) are the dopers, the "scientist" and researchers who are constantly looking and developing drugs, and actually using/testing them and measuring the affects on performance that know WTF they are talking about, and they are always ahead of the rest and the so-called experts people refer to. I'm sure the way Tygart has purported himself the past several years, people think he is some doping expert. ROFL...yeah, right. Not even close.

After that, it is a game of catchup, or hope you are in the inside area to have access/knowledge of these things. As I said, bodybuilders with particular drugs related to muscle/strength, are very open about it. The internet forums are filled with information from them and the various drugs used. And you can watch/see new up and coming drugs that are tested over the years.

Other sports, not very open about it, because there is more than just amateur/personal gain, it is often professional, money based, and more riding on success, so those drugs, methods and uses are kept under wraps for a long-long time. Most are just figuring/finding this stuff out the past several years with all the dopers coming forward and finally telling the rest of the world and "experts" what/how they did stuff. Then people go....Ohhhhh, I see. I thought something was up.

 

[Granville57]

Horner fighting illness at the Tour of Utah
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-fighting-illness-at-the-tour-of-utah

“This is my third round of antibiotics,” he said Thursday. “I think I've been on a steady stream of antibiotics since probably about 10 days before the Tour de France. So from 10 days before the Tour until now, I'm sure there's been some kind of antibiotics in my system the whole time.

That sounds like a lot of antibiotics. His TUE list would make for some interesting reading.

 

[BYOP88]

Poor Horner sick again, maybe that's nature telling you to quit.

Cyclists seem like the biggest hypochondriac's going. Not a day goes by without a story/press release saying that a cyclist is ill and taking some medication.

 

[The Hitch]

Being I'll seems to be a common thing for some of the new gen of gt winners.

 

[whittashau]

A sick 40 year old can still out climb almost every rider in the peloton? Beyond ridiculous.