When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[Colonel]

Definitely time to buy yourself a gopro and turn up the audio recording ;-)

Appreciate the tale, either way. Meant no offense nor to cast aspersions either.

None taken at all, its the clinic and a forum after all.

 

[The Hitch]

I have never said he is not doping, only that as long as he is racing the real experts have not come to the same conclusions

The real experts have not reached that conclusion.

Bs. There is no way in Hell any of vayer, hoberman, Ashenden, Simon think that Horner is clean.

You clearly have never seen an anti doping expert in your life.

 

[hrotha]

Considering he's been target-tested for a while, I'd say not only the external experts but also the antidoping authorities have reached the same conclusion. Being legally able to act on them is a different matter though.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Considering he's been target-tested for a while, I'd say not only the external experts but also the antidoping authorities have reached the same conclusion. Being legally able to act on them is a different matter though.

Indeed.

One day Pappy will slip-up and it only takes once.

I wonder what his blood work will look like during the Vuelta.

If it doesn't show the pattern of last year he is busted by back analysis
If it does, maybe he will be busted as well.

He REALLY should have taken his GT 'victory' and run.

 

[Energy Starr]

Indeed.

One day Pappy will slip-up and it only takes once.

I wonder what his blood work will look like during the Vuelta.

If it doesn't show the pattern of last year he is busted by back analysis
If it does, maybe he will be busted as well.

He REALLY should have taken his GT 'victory' and run.

Pappy is playing with house money folks. There is absolutely zero consequence for him if he gets busted. What are they going to do, make him do TV? Come on, he can and will dope to the gills whenever he feels like it from here on out.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Sorry you just have not closed the door.....
I am being sincere when I wish for an end to this thread. You know, a date he got popped would close it but unfortunately even if he was squeaky clean i can't prove it and so far all you have is a strong suspicion that I find is still pretty full of holes.
BTW why this particular rider? Because it took him until 42 to get it right? For me that he raced this long to finally get a chance makes him very special because most riders gave up. That anyone his age still loves the bike this much? That is special. maybe even hockey helmet special

Is Master50 Chris Horner ???

 

[Merckx index]

Valverde last year.

And Horner wasn't at his best. He finished low enough on TDF gc that the possibility remains he was preparing for the second gt, like say Lance in 2009 -12th Giro - 3rd Tour,

Valverde didn’t have a great TDF, though it was certainly better than what Horner did this year, and without the flat, possibly a podium. In the Vuelta, he was helped by the fact that some of the main competition, Nibs and J-Rod, had also raced a GT that year.

I’ve always thought what LA did in 2009 was remarkable, particularly considering his Giro prep was destroyed by that crash and broken collarbone. OTOH, he was very lucky to podium in the TDF. He was the beneficiary of no fewer than four unusual circumstances: 1) the early stage peloton split, allowing him to pick up time on not just Contador, but several other rivals on other teams; 2) a very strong TTT team, featuring Contador (who beat Cancellara in an ITT later in that Tour), Leipheimer, and Klodi; 3) Leipheimer crashed out later; and 4) Contador dropped Klodi on a key climb, knocking him out of second on the GC, and providing LA with an opportunity to pass him.

If any one of those four things doesn’t happen, LA is almost certainly not on the podium. If none of them happens, he’s not even top 5. Maybe, given his three year layoff, bottom half of the top 10 would have been a great result for him, anyway. But the point is, you can’t use what he did as evidence that Horner is going to be a strong contender in the Vuelta.

But consider this:
Imagine if Froome had suffered an accident as severe as Horner's (and it was fairly severe), and with as little time to recover before the TdF. And imagine that Froome was also fending off a case of bronchitis during the Tour. Now imagine that Froome actually makes it all the way to Paris.

Do you think he would've finished in 17th place?

I don't.

Horner > Froome.

.

I don’t know, but since at the moment we're not betting on a post-severe accident Froome with bronchitis, I don’t think it’s relevant. I’m talking about Froome in great shape, which I think he is, though of course I could be wrong. He didn’t look that great for most of the spring. It’s possible he will disappoint, but even if that happens, I don’t see Horner winning the Vuelta.

In a way, I think the argument used by you and Foxxy is self-contradictory. If 17th place is such a remarkable finish given Horner’s condition (and it would have been 20th if Froome, Contador and Talansky had not crashed out), it’s hard to maintain that he was just using the TDF for training. If OTOH you're going to argue that he left plenty in the tank for a full out assault on the Vuelta, then we really can’t draw any conclusions about how much better he could ride. The difference between top 20 and podium is huge. Just because a wounded Horner was stronger than 90% of the riders in the Tour doesn't mean a healed Horner is now better than anyone else.

Horner has become in some people’s eyes the big bad wolf, unbeatable when at his best. Why? Because of one GT he won, when his three closest rivals all had raced another GT earlier in that year. And even then, it was one of the smallest margins of victory in GT history. Yes, he was very good on a few climbs, but I don’t see how what he did there can be seriously compared to what Froome has done in not one but several GTs. Froome has established over the past several years that when he’s fresh, healthy and the team leader, he’s the best climber in the world, and much better at TTs than any climbing specialist.

 

[Granville57]

I am being sincere when I wish for an end to this thread. You know, a date he got popped would close it...

I hate to break it to you, but if Horner ever gets popped, the conversation will have only just begun (see Lance Armstrong threads 1, 2 & 3).

 

[Granville57]

The conversation in general was really interesting if you into that sort of thing.

This is The Clinic.

We are definitely into that sort of thing.

 

[Granville57]

I’ve always thought what LA did in 2009 was remarkable, particularly considering his Giro prep was destroyed by that crash and broken collarbone. OTOH, he was very lucky to podium in the TDF. He was the beneficiary of no fewer than four unusual circumstances:

3) Leipheimer crashed out later;

If any one of those four things doesn’t happen, LA is almost certainly not on the podium.

I've always looked at Levi's crash as being detrimental to Armstrong that year. With another, fully committed, ally on his side, I'd think that Lance stood an even better chance of achieving his goal.

If 17th place is such a remarkable finish given Horner’s condition (and it would have been 20th if Froome, Contador and Talansky had not crashed out), it’s hard to maintain that he was just using the TDF for training.

Why is that? I'm not sure I follow your point here. I think it is remarkable that Horner finished 17th, while coming back from severe injuries, battling bronchitis, and essentially approaching it as training and prep for the Vuelta. Some of the other riders who finished beneath him would've certainly been clawing their way up as high as they possibly could so as to best secure their own future as professional cyclists. But they were no match for the 142-year-old. I do find that remarkable—even more so because he was using the Tour mostly as a training ride.

Just because a wounded Horner was stronger than 90% of the riders in the Tour doesn't mean a healed Horner is now better than anyone else.

The only logical conclusion we can draw is that a healed Horner will likely be better and stronger than a wounded Horner. And a wounded Horner was able to finish higher than all of Team Sky.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Why is that? I'm not sure I follow your point here. I think it is remarkable that Horner finished 17th, while coming back from severe injuries, battling bronchitis, and essentially approaching it as training and prep for the Vuelta, and as dom for a world champion (Costa). Some of the other riders who finished beneath him would've certainly been clawing their way up as high as they possibly could so as to best secure their own future as professional cyclists. But they were no match for the 142-year-old. I do find that remarkable—even more so because he was using the Tour mostly as a training ride.

The only logical conclusion we can draw is that a healed Horner will likely be better and stronger than a wounded Horner. And a wounded Horner was able to finish higher than all of Team Sky, and win the Vuelta 2013 wounded too.

OFC I fully agree, but had to include some important infos in your post.

A fully healed Horner will smoke everybody like Rijs and LA did on their Hautacam shows back in the days (only that they were 112 years younger at their peak years).
Welcome to the new cycling. Vroom-Vroom will only see the dust of Cycling-Horny-Granny´s wheels...

 

[RiccoDinko]

Horner is not that good, maybe top 10 at best in a TDF. He's a mountain goat, who eats beets, snickers, and burgers. He gives the most entertaining interviews, and some great racing. He does monster training rides, with a ton of climbing in the heat, he's made for the Vuelta. RESPECT.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

He does monster training rides, with a ton of climbing in the heat, he's made for the Vuelta. RESPECT.

... and has a bigger heart, and higher cadence... and all those lazy europeans don´t train enough in the heat.
Where did I hear that before?

 

[del1962]

I hate to break it to you, but if Horner ever gets popped, the conversation will have only just begun (see Lance Armstrong threads 1, 2 & 3).

Nah, one lesser GT win versus 7 TDF, I would be suprised if anyone would be that interested in spinning it out.

 

[Rollthedice]

Oleg, while being angry at UCI says:

"I'll reveal something important. Last year there was a rider, quite a famous rider, who we were considering for the team but we didn’t sign him because our experts and our doctors looked at his Biological Passport data and thought there was something wrong with it, with irregularities in there. But one of the other major teams in the peloton did sign him and the UCI was okay with it and now this rider is racing."

Is it true? Could it be Horner?

 

[jens_attacks]

lampre is not a major team i would think though. not in tinkov's eyes at least

 

[Dear Wiggo]

lampre is not a major team i would think though. not in tinkov's eyes at least

From a funding, or a results POV I would agree. Horner does stand out as kinda famous given the Vuelta win at his age thing.

Would you say the major teams are:

OPQS
Sky
Movistar
BMC
Katusha

just based on results over the last few years?

So who is a famous rider that was hired on last year by one of these teams?

 

[staubsauger]

Whou should or could it be instead? Scarponi? Atapuma, Anton, Uran, Nieve?

Horner sounds most likely for me. And even trough Lampre isn't a big team based on results they're are still around for many many years so you could call them a big team.

 

[Netserk]

Probably just something Tinkov made up.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Netserk's post is triggering a memory. Did JV make a similar claim a while back?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Is it true? Could it be Horner?

Of course it's true. One of the things we learned from JV1973 earlier this year is that the UCI and ASO are directly involved in choosing who rides where.

Is it Horner? I don't know. There are probably many more than just Horner with dodgy passport values. I see someone's already trying to make a short list.

 

[roundabout]

Oleg, while being angry at UCI says:

"I'll reveal something important. Last year there was a rider, quite a famous rider, who we were considering for the team but we didn’t sign him because our experts and our doctors looked at his Biological Passport data and thought there was something wrong with it, with irregularities in there. But one of the other major teams in the peloton did sign him and the UCI was okay with it and now this rider is racing."

Is it true? Could it be Horner?

Sanchez obviously. A teflon doper if there ever was one.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Sanchez would be the logical choice indeed, given that he was rumoured to go to Tinkoff for quite a while but it didn't go through for vague reasons

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Sanchez would be the logical choice indeed, given that he was rumoured to go to Tinkoff for quite a while but it didn't go through for vague reasons

Just read up on that again. "Concerns with older riders". El oh el.

 

[Afrank]

From a funding, or a results POV I would agree. Horner does stand out as kinda famous given the Vuelta win at his age thing.

Would you say the major teams are:

OPQS
Sky
Movistar
BMC
Katusha

just based on results over the last few years?

So who is a famous rider that was hired on last year by one of these teams?

I would add Astana to that list. Some big names they signed-
OPQS: Uran.
Sky: No one really, Sebastian Henao?
Movistar: Izagirre? Gadret?
BMC: Biggest name Atapuma probably.
Katusha: No real big names signed last year.

Astana signed Scarponi, also Pellizotti but he didn't end up racing with them.