When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[Merckx index]

I don't think Horner will podium

Me, either. I think Froome would annihilate Horner even if the latter didn’t have the TDF in his legs, but as it is, the old man is at a huge disadvantage. Look what happened to Froome at the Vuelta in 2012, or Contador at the TDF in 2011. No one in a long time has been able to ride at his best in two consecutive GTs. I understand Horner was not at his best in this past Tour, but I don't think it was just a training ride for him. He had to have left a lot on the road.

I wanted to bet with Foxxy, Froome vs. Horner, but it just doesn’t seem fair. I’m a compassionate guy, and my conscience just won’t let me take candy from a baby. It might be a fairer bet if I wagered Froome beats Horner > 3 minutes, but even then the odds are stacked pretty heavily in favor of Froome. I'd even bet Horner doesn't make top 5, though there I might want odds, like 2:1.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I wanted to bet with Foxxy, Froome vs. Horner, but it just doesn’t seem fair.

I am ready. But not money. As I told redflanders I don´t do computer transactions. Especially since I had my PC breakdown during the Tour (maybe virus/malware or whatever).
6 good old BBs in the fridge ready for re-infusing do better than marginal gains with weight loss, let´s say 3 BBs, and gene experiments or whatever murky stuff...
I´d even take a 50-1 bet that Horners head explodes during the Vuelta. Yeah, I think the 2%-chance is there: I just can´t forget that interview he gave during the Tour; he looked worse than Froome ever looked with his plastic-y skin (one side of Horners cone-head had veins triple the size of an elephant, the other side had the scars of his head op). And that was when Horner just did trial and error of how much BBs are needed.

 

[red_flanders]

OK I was wrong. So what? I thought the AFLD would get him. Now I know better. He will be Kreuzigerized in 3/4 years with a waterproof BP case. I can live with that. I survived 10+ years until LA came down.

BTW, Year in year out my T-20 predictions lead my to the final. So they can´t be that bad. Would have been nice if you had the guts to show up too.
Sceptic had it, and does pretty well...

Great.

I guess my very buried point is that I'm not sure if you're serious with your rather over-the-top Horner predictions or just trolling like you were for months on the other topic.

Can't take any of it seriously given the history. Just all over the place.

 

[The Hitch]

No one in a long time has been able to ride at his best in two consecutive GTs.

Valverde last year.

And Horner wasn't at his best. He finished low enough on TDF gc that the possibility remains he was preparing for the second gt, like say Lance in 2009 -12th Giro - 3rd Tour,

 

[Master50]

I am ready. But not money. As I told redflanders I don´t do computer transactions. Especially since I had my PC breakdown during the Tour (maybe virus/malware or whatever).
6 good old BBs in the fridge ready for re-infusing do better than marginal gains with weight loss, let´s say 3 BBs, and gene experiments or whatever murky stuff...
I´d even take a 50-1 bet that Horners head explodes during the Vuelta. Yeah, I think the 2%-chance is there: I just can´t forget that interview he gave during the Tour; he looked worse than Froome ever looked with his plastic-y skin (one side of Horners cone-head had veins triple the size of an elephant, the other side had the scars of his head op). And that was when Horner just did trial and error of how much BBs are needed.

I guess he is in the USA filling those bags right after the tour of Utah. then he is going to ship them by a medical courier to Europe and store them strategically in the several towns he will replenish. of maybe he already has his left overs from the tour just to keep his passport up and a couple more bags he prepped while in hospital. No worries about the shelf life is there?.
I am guessing he went over all the details with his new sponsor just before he signed his new contract. I doubt Radio shack sent his stuff over to Lampre but hey the doping is so well organized that teams can just do that. Nevermind that Foxxxy is not the only conspiracy theorist looking for the CH secret, CH will prove again to be a true doping mastermind capable of organizing his doping from the USA and import his products so effectively and everyone just keeps secrets.

We really have got to figure this one out. I sure hope CH gets popped soon cause I just don't believe he is that smart. I know I would be really disappointed to see him test positive or to be found with a blood bag but if he is doping I am really curious how and why it works so well on him? Unlike before the bio passport the level you claim he is pumped up to cannot be easily hidden. Blood values offered here notwithstanding. Micro dosing does not create super men it only keeps them super longer than without it. Maybe he has a bottle of Xenon, an altitude tent, some mini BBs, and a bit of micro dosing but all of that would drive his HC levels over 46 or what ever his current normal value is.
The suspense is just killing me too.

 

[Granville57]

I think Froome would annihilate Horner even if the latter didn’t have the TDF in his legs, but as it is, the old man is at a huge disadvantage.

But consider this:
Imagine if Froome had suffered an accident as severe as Horner's (and it was fairly severe), and with as little time to recover before the TdF. And imagine that Froome was also fending off a case of bronchitis during the Tour. Now imagine that Froome actually makes it all the way to Paris.

Do you think he would've finished in 17th place?

I don't.

Horner > Froome.

 

[veganrob]

And the thing is, Horner did it so under the radar. He never exposed himself, just quietly went about using TdF as a training race.

 

[Oldman]

And the thing is, Horner did it so under the radar. He never exposed himself, just quietly went about using TdF as a training race.

He actually held back and paced Costa. Did his team duty and earned the credentials for full support at the Vuelta. The injury-based comparison of Horner and almost anyone else from the Tour is valid. Froome will have to humble him to equalize the feat.
As for Masters 50's sarcasm...why would he need to ship anything? He's been in Spain or somewhere close enough to park what he needs...after the Tour. I doubt anyone is taking full units of blood anymore and he could be that smart.

 

[veganrob]

He actually held back and paced Costa. Did his team duty and earned the credentials for full support at the Vuelta. The injury-based comparison of Horner and almost anyone else from the Tour is valid. Froome will have to humble him to equalize the feat.
As for Masters 50's sarcasm...why would he need to ship anything? He's been in Spain or somewhere close enough to park what he needs...after the Tour. I doubt anyone is taking full units of blood anymore and he could be that smart.

Agreed. He might come off as a redneck fool, but he is no dummy.

 

[sittingbison]

... I'm not sure if you're serious with your rather over-the-top Horner predictions or just trolling like you were for months on the other topic....Can't take any of it seriously given the history. Just all over the place.

bolded ^

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Blood values offered here notwithstanding.

The blood values were offered by Chris himself. Then multiple people with the necessary medical experience agreed that the values were not naturally explainable, but were within the bio-passport limits.

This is not conjecture, it is just something that happened.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I am really curious how and why it works so well on him? Unlike before the bio passport the level you claim he is pumped up to cannot be easily hidden. Blood values offered here notwithstanding.

I offered the most likely explanation at least twice:
In last years Vuelta his young highly talented and healthy world class opponents were relatively clean. Call it feared, while CH was on the usual old school program (BBs the "sibirian way" as TH described it in his book).
Remember LA in 99? Almost everybody was feared, thus the field being relatively clean. LA OTOH just went the old way: "Dope as much you can, b/c the others do more" he thought (quoted from the TH book). And that led to absurd, surprsing to everybody final standings. Not the best rider won, but the most reckless (off 12 Epo positives, 6 belonged to LA).
Fast forward to 2013, and history repeats itself, just exchange EPO with BBs.
How he gets around the BP? As you might know with 50+ years of life expierience you may heard that frauds use all tricks to get away with cheating. Dr Ferrari explained to Bertagnolli how to circumnavigate BP suspicion. Be sure CH got wind of that. He is a vet, knows it all. He juuust stayed inside the parameters to not get suspended. JV called his BP roller-coaster-like and toxic, while others (like well known and highly respected scientists) called his uploaded profiles at least highly suspicious.
So before asking the same questions again and again, just copy this post to your computer, and every time you wonder why CH came away with his over-the-top-doping, just read it again.
Will the same shit happen again? I am afraid yes, since the young talented guys might be even more feared than ever now, since they can never be sure to not being Kreuzigerized in 3/4 years. CH OTOH don´t care. By that time he´ll be out of business, his "earned" money saved in banks no one can touch (maybe Bermuda. I heared you can open a safe hidden account there if you come up with 500.000 USD).
So stop pretending to have no reading skills. All this kinds of logical explanations (and more. Especially by "Merckx", "Oldman" and "Science is cool") are posted here by many different posters...

I guess he is in the USA filling those bags right after the tour of Utah. then he is going to ship them by a medical courier to Europe and store them strategically in the several towns he will replenish.

A motoman would be easier. It worked before, why not now...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

bolded ^

... for years to be correct. I gave the explanation, and offered the witnesses. If some guys can´t get over it. It´s not my problem but theirs. If there was balance in the clinic (which still isn´t), there was no need for me to hold up the mirror to the hypocrites that do/did their dreadful state of affairs here (climaxed in the CH/Froome squared thread). I put that story to bed. And it has got nothing to do with CH now. Period.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

But consider this:
Imagine if Froome had suffered an accident as severe as Horner's (and it was fairly severe), and with as little time to recover before the TdF. And imagine that Froome was also fending off a case of bronchitis during the Tour. Now imagine that Froome actually makes it all the way to Paris.

Do you think he would've finished in 17th place?

I don't.

Horner > Froome.

1+
And don´t forget the outrage and clinic meltdown that would have followed. Great post.

 

[jens_attacks]

foxxy, try this

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

foxxy, try this

Jens try this, might be the lone scoring chance you get...

 

[jens_attacks]

she's pretty but no thanks

nice sofa though

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

OK, we had our fun... or not. Afrank (or the mod at work now) could you please delete the spam (the last four posts inclusive this one)? Thanks in advance.

If you have a problem with me Jens, send a PM. We can work it out like grown ups. Thx in advance too.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

1+
And don´t forget the outrage and clinic meltdown that would have followed. Great post.

Because of a 17th place finish? Doubt it. Granted, a lot of people here have a hard-on for all things Froome and Sky, but proven GT specialists can ride themselves into decent form. Also, I don't think Horner is anywhere near as fragile as Froome is.

Anyway. If Horner was so juiced as some of you all seem to think then surely his TT would be better.

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=24063

^ This was Horner at his career best (relatively, anyway) versus a sub-par Nibali and a host of other riders who weren't in great shape. Almost pitiful, really. There are plenty of other examples, as well. I'm probably alone in this, but it just doesn't scream Nibali or Froome-level doping to me. So yeah, he's old and still performs at a high level, but then maybe he's just gifted that way. Maybe he's only on a regular low-risk program like Contador last year. Who knows?

 

[Colonel]

This is alittle off from the general posts on Horner but n the 17th Stage which ended on Pla d' Adet I was riding down when Horner and Bauer came down and landed up next to me near the bottom and with the traffic I made a effort to stay next to them and listening to their conversation. Bauer said how he was on the absolute limit during the attack on Col d 'Azet when Horner said yes it was hard but he was doing about 470w for the 4-5min and that "everyone" is now able to produce those numbers and he is riding the Tour soley as prep for Vuelta where he hopes to find another 5-10%.

The convo was interesting to say the least especially if you see what Horner looks like in person. There is more meat on a set of false teeth.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This is alittle off from the general posts on Horner but n the 17th Stage which ended on Pla d' Adet I was riding down when Horner and Bauer came down and landed up next to me near the bottom and with the traffic I made a effort to stay next to them and listening to their conversation. Bauer said how he was on the absolute limit during the attack on Col d 'Azet when Horner said yes it was hard but he was doing about 470w for the 4-5min and that "everyone" is now able to produce those numbers and he is riding the Tour soley as prep for Vuelta where he hopes to find another 5-10%.

The convo was interesting to say the least especially if you see what Horner looks like in person. There is more meat on a set of false teeth.

Ok that is way interesting and incredible to read.

And your metaphor is top class too, even if the preceding is unprovable.

A shame Horner didn't come right out and say, "Since Sky's revolutionary training methods went viral everyone can hit 470W for 5 minutes". Ah well.

Maybe it's just the new dope. Better than the old dope.

 

[Colonel]

Ok that is way interesting and incredible to read.

And your metaphor is top class too, even if the preceding is unprovable.

A shame Horner didn't come right out and say, "Since Sky's revolutionary training methods went viral everyone can hit 470W for 5 minutes". Ah well.

Maybe it's just the new dope. Better than the old dope.

Hahaha, yes he definitely had nothing about Sky in the convo. But honestly, its totally up to anyone to believe what I typed and I respect that but it was those once in a lifetime right places at the right time. The conversation in general was really interesting if you into that sort of thing.

Chris climbs standing alot and although I never saw the attack on the previous Col, if he was standing doing those numbers its more impressive although I dont think he would be for the full 4-5 min duration.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hahaha, yes he definitely had nothing about Sky in the convo. But honestly, its totally up to anyone to believe what I typed and I respect that but it was those once in a lifetime right places at the right time. The conversation in general was really interesting if you into that sort of thing.

Chris climbs standing alot and although I never saw the attack on the previous Col, if he was standing doing those numbers its more impressive although I dont think he would be for the full 4-5 min duration.

Definitely time to buy yourself a gopro and turn up the audio recording ;-)

Appreciate the tale, either way. Meant no offense nor to cast aspersions either.

 

[Master50]

I offered the most likely explanation at least twice:
In last years Vuelta his young highly talented and healthy world class opponents were relatively clean. Call it feared, while CH was on the usual old school program (BBs the "sibirian way" as TH described it in his book).
Remember LA in 99? Almost everybody was feared, thus the field being relatively clean. LA OTOH just went the old way: "Dope as much you can, b/c the others do more" he thought (quoted from the TH book). And that led to absurd, surprsing to everybody final standings. Not the best rider won, but the most reckless (off 12 Epo positives, 6 belonged to LA).
Fast forward to 2013, and history repeats itself, just exchange EPO with BBs.
How he gets around the BP? As you might know with 50+ years of life expierience you may heard that frauds use all tricks to get away with cheating. Dr Ferrari explained to Bertagnolli how to circumnavigate BP suspicion. Be sure CH got wind of that. He is a vet, knows it all. He juuust stayed inside the parameters to not get suspended. JV called his BP roller-coaster-like and toxic, while others (like well known and highly respected scientists) called his uploaded profiles at least highly suspicious.
So before asking the same questions again and again, just copy this post to your computer, and every time you wonder why CH came away with his over-the-top-doping, just read it again.
Will the same shit happen again? I am afraid yes, since the young talented guys might be even more feared than ever now, since they can never be sure to not being Kreuzigerized in 3/4 years. CH OTOH don´t care. By that time he´ll be out of business, his "earned" money saved in banks no one can touch (maybe Bermuda. I heared you can open a safe hidden account there if you come up with 500.000 USD).
So stop pretending to have no reading skills. All this kinds of logical explanations (and more. Especially by "Merckx", "Oldman" and "Science is cool") are posted here by many different posters...

A motoman would be easier. It worked before, why not now...

Sorry you just have not closed the door. You only get as far as highly suspicious and then use Over The Top Doping and back to using doping methods from 1999 to 2001 to support current possible methods. So much of this requires supporters to help him, not to mention his allies amongst the anti doping experts. Sorry I know you think you have all the corners tightly tucked in and you believe you put this baby to bed except he is still racing so I guess there must be some holes in your tale of expert, sophisticated, and organized doping. Of course nothing I have questioned or written proves he isn't doping but you have not done more than demonstrate that he has to have help for your theory to be right. There must be a thread like this on just about every rider with good results but it is only that I have followed CH career since 1999 and I am a fan that has me arguing here. I have never said he is not doping, only that as long as he is racing the real experts have not come to the same conclusion. I do believe his entire career path could demonstrate his ability was up to the Vuelta but my theory depends on a changing peloton. IE the cleanest since the 1980s. My experience says clean yours says doping?
I am being sincere when I wish for an end to this thread. You know, a date he got popped would close it but unfortunately even if he was squeaky clean i can't prove it and so far all you have is a strong suspicion that I find is still pretty full of holes.
BTW why this particular rider? Because it took him until 42 to get it right? For me that he raced this long to finally get a chance makes him very special because most riders gave up. That anyone his age still loves the bike this much? That is special. maybe even hockey helmet special

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

CH is not the only one who loves to ride at a high age. Greg LeMond just descent at 100 km/h while doing the after stage TdF commenting on Eurosport. Ullrich still loves to ride. Others do, many do, millions do... Horner does. But with one exception: He, if clean (LOL), must be the single one most competitive at age 40whatever rider in the history of mankind. The chosen one. The best ever*. You really believe that? OFC you don´t. You just try to defend the undefendable. And you know it... highest W/Kg at 41, almost breaking old doper records at Vuelta 2013, while unable to hold wheels of clean riders in his mid to late 20s, and so on... you have read it a hundred times here. But I am good to you: I just repeated it for you, only you. Until you get it. I have no problem with that.

* In that case it should have been no problem for him to be at least on one GT roster in his first europe stint. Not only didn´t he, no, he got fired. That bad the best ever was.
The chosen one would, even as dom, finish 2nd behind his captain (like LeMond in 1985). He didn´t... He is just a reckless doper. That´s it. No more, no less.