Which muscles in the legs are most usefull to train in gym for riding a bike?

[Zorotheslacker]

Don't forget to eat broccoli. It's an important part of an athlete's diet and many pros do it. There are many books praising its benefits.

As to which leg muscles to work in the gym to be a better (endurance) cyclist? Still none.

This old thread is how I came around years ago:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/126133/gyming-to-improve-power

Many things in cycling are not as clear to me as this one is to you. Even the value of broccoli.

With Juniors - they change so fast it is hard to know what to attribute it to. I'd say in no order - genes (mom's), HGH, testosterone, miles, coaching, resistance training, sleep, diet, equipment, spin, supplements, bike fit and just confidence.

Unlike adults, most this stuff changes constantly. Also, while resistance training may do little for full grown males, most trainers I've spoken with don't know much about kids. Typically there is a fear of hurting them.
FWIW we keep Strava times, VO2, power records and get to compare to other kids and adults and pros, and as posted above, there are a lot of variables. And while I'm not so sure 4 years of resistance/weight (bike and gym) training a hormone machine will not result in something more than not training, its a fun thing to do and the results from the whole picture are coming along fine.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Resistance exercises (gym or on bike) are for strength. In longer/stage/pro races maybe that is less important. In amateur and Junior races strength really helps and much can be gained without bulk. Where we live there are many more Crits than road races :-( . These things are short and the strongest rider has an advantage. So while you say it doesn't harm - it can be very useful.

"These things are short and the most powerful rider has an advantage."

FTFY.

It's not a strength sport. It's a power sport, with power over various durations of relevance and typically also expressed relative to body mass and aerodynamics.

For such short races I would suggest incorporating accelerations, from speed, from low speed, from a standing start, on hills, and work on improving anaerobic capabilities with relevant intervals as these very effectively develop the attributes you suggest are important.

But it's still dominantly an aerobic sport and without a primary focus on developing that capability, you'll never be at the pointy end of a race when it matters.

Perhaps you can explain which gym exercises are more effective at improving cycling power output (expressed as W/kg and/or W/m^2) than can be attained through specific on-bike training.

 

[Zorotheslacker]

more effective[/I] at improving cycling power output (expressed as W/kg and/or W/m^2) than can be attained through specific on-bike training.

I don't know which is better. I mentioned - too many variables. You may notice I didn't recommend any particular weight exercise in this thread (did I?). I am an advocate of resistance training. And its fine being one the bike.

He does standing start sprints, big gear hills (5 years now), and gym - this year. Squats is one, step-up with weights in hands, hanging knee raises with weights on feet and also a well rounded group including arms. What I have seen is huge strength gains (amount lifted) without weight increase. For him I think that does translate to power as his cardio is well developed for his age.

And while we have a power meter - we don't use it much. His power/weight is good. We use a long hill, short hill, stopwatch and Strava. You can PM me if you want details.

 

[Lukacek]

Reading this topic made me thinking, is there any negative effect of weight training on cycling, beside of extra mass?

Please distinguish between upper and lower body training and season/off season.

Also if anyone is aware of any pubmed study on this topic link it please.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Reading this topic made me thinking, is there any negative effect of weight training on cycling, beside of extra mass?

Please distinguish between upper and lower body training and season/off season.

Also if anyone is aware of any pubmed study on this topic link it please.

Well it depend on what you mean by weight training.

The adaptations that increase strength (which beyond an initial and limited improvement in neural fibre recruitment, is primarily only going to come from hypertrophy leading to increased muscle cross sectional area) and the subsequent mitochonrial and capillary dilution and increase in body mass run counter to those physiological adaptations desirable for improved aerobic performance (i.e. increased mirochondrial and capillary density, improved sustainable power to body mass ratio).

There's plenty of studies that find little benefit, none that find more benefit than suitable on bike interval work, and some that show a detrimental impact to endurance cycling performance of training to increase strength.

There must be a million strength and cycling threads already, I don't really propose to revisit them.

But I also caution on confusing moving weights with strength training. The latter is very specific and defined physiologically (maximal force production capability of a muscle/group of muscles). The former may or may not have an impact on strength.

Overall it's pretty equivocal, hence why I tend to lean towards doing work that's specific to the desired improvement, but realise there are factors other than physiological in play such as general health and well being, specific personal physical issues, rehab, social, enjoyment, motivational, crappy weather for riding and so on.

 

[Zorotheslacker]

Reading this topic made me thinking, is there any negative effect of weight training on cycling, beside of extra mass?
...

Extra mass is not a requirement.

 

[VeloFidelis]

I am continually amused at the association between weight training and mass, versus improved fitness. Should you decide swap equal saddle time for time in the gym, you may start to add mass. Otherwise you are perpetuating a myth. It takes a very serious focus to increase body mass in any significant way. It needs to be your primary goal, and given the number of people who make it one and still fail to succeed... obviously mass is not an accidental and unavoidable by product of weight training. Yes a Froome or Schleck may consciously want to reduce mass for those epic mountain stages, but if we are comparing ourselves to these genetic mutants, we have already attained a delusional state. There are none of us here whose cycling would not benefit from the addition of a well designed resistance training program.

 

[Zorotheslacker]

Reading this topic made me thinking, is there any negative effect of weight training on cycling, beside of extra mass?

Please distinguish between upper and lower body training and season/off season.

Also if anyone is aware of any pubmed study on this topic link it please.

Time and risk of injury.
You are less likely to crash and get road rash in the gym, but there are other injuries and things you pick up that can ruin a season.

It also takes time. I think it is a great off season activity to take 2nd spot to actual riding in season.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

There are none of us here whose cycling would not benefit from the addition of a well designed resistance training program.

That's your opinion but it depends I suppose on what you mean by "benefit". In terms of endurance cycling performance, it'll be hard for any resistance training to beat what's attainable with specific on bike work.


To paraphrase:

There are none of us here whose cycling would not benefit from executing a well designed cycling training program.

 

[Lukacek]

Well it depend on what you mean by weight training.

Hmm, let's say Mark Rippetoe's starting strength or any other 5x5 or 5/3/1 program that involves squatting (or similar exercise) 3x/week.

I am continually amused at the association between weight training and mass, versus improved fitness.

I think that 1st rule of any strength weight training is to eat in 5-10% in surplus and that is base of extra mass.

Time and risk of injury.
You are less likely to crash and get road rash in the gym, but there are other injuries and things you pick up that can ruin a season.

With mobility work, warm up, stretching and proper execution of exercises you don't get injured.

 

[Zorotheslacker]

That's your opinion but it depends I suppose on what you mean by "benefit". In terms of endurance cycling performance, it'll be hard for any resistance training to beat what's attainable with specific on bike work.


To paraphrase:

There are none of us here whose cycling would not benefit from executing a well designed cycling training program.

So we are clear on what we are discussing.

Do you believe ON-THE-BIKE resistance training helps (things that make the rider push on the pedals hard and pull up on the bars)?

 

[Zorotheslacker]

Also if anyone is aware of any pubmed study on this topic link it please.

Always someone with a book to sell.
http://www.training4cyclists.com/don’t-fall-into-strength-training-trap

 

[biopass]

Hi there. I was wondering if there are any particular part of your legmuscles which is more used, and therefore more usefull to train?

I have found a chart on this website:

http://www.cyclingtipsonline.com/news/which-muscles-are-used-when-riding-a-bike/

Where i can see which parts are used where, and it seems to me, that the knee extensors and hip extensors are the most useful ones to train. But how do you look at it? Is it more general you should train, or are there some special muscles in your legs that is more worth training than others?

Crossfit Endurance is the answer.

Actually Crossfit is THE answer to everything

 

[kielbasa]

So we are clear on what we are discussing.

Do you believe ON-THE-BIKE resistance training helps (things that make the rider push on the pedals hard and pull up on the bars)?

On-the-bike resistance training is called sprinting. What you are describing is called climbing and we know how bulky those climbers can get from all that resistance training.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

So we are clear on what we are discussing.

Do you believe ON-THE-BIKE resistance training helps (things that make the rider push on the pedals hard and pull up on the bars)?

If such training is specific and relevant to the development needs of the cyclist in question, for sure. An example of that would be standing starts.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Hmm, let's say Mark Rippetoe's starting strength or any other 5x5 or 5/3/1 program that involves squatting (or similar exercise) 3x/week.

No idea who Mark Ripptoe is. This is a cycling forum to discuss cycling training and performance matters. A quick Google suggests he's a gym owner with NFI when it comes to endurance cycling performance.

Starting exercise for an endurance cyclist should be on the bike, not in the gym.

 

[Lukacek]

No idea who Mark Ripptoe is. This is a cycling forum to discuss cycling training and performance matters. A quick Google suggests he's a gym owner with NFI when it comes to endurance cycling performance.

Starting exercise for an endurance cyclist should be on the bike, not in the gym.

I am aware that gym training has zero or close to zero benefit for endurance cycling. My question was if there is any negative effect on cycling doing it. Especially leg workouts.

 

[Zorotheslacker]

I am aware that gym training has zero or close to zero benefit for endurance cycling. My question was if there is any negative effect on cycling doing it. Especially leg workouts.

 

[2beeDammed]

I would suggest that core and lower back are things that would need to be worked on off the bike. If your core and lower back is weak, your endurance will suffer. Same goes for stretching..

 

[Zorotheslacker]

I am aware that gym training has zero or close to zero benefit for endurance cycling. My question was if there is any negative effect on cycling doing it. Especially leg workouts.

Please define endurance cycling.

 

[VeloFidelis]

I'm an Endurance Cyclist. I get all my fitness exclusively on the bike... and you should too!

 

[Michele]

Maybe you should get a proper mechanic adjust those shifters as well.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I believe this trend in endurance cyclist physiology is responsible for the advent of the sloping top tube frame.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I am aware that gym training has zero or close to zero benefit for endurance cycling. My question was if there is any negative effect on cycling doing it. Especially leg workouts.

I already outlined those, but in addition to reduced capillary and mitocondrial density and potential for increased mass*, the other factor to consider is the additional fatigue that can reduce one's ability to train as effectively on the bike as one might. It's an opportunity cost.


* keep in mind that strength gains only come from either greater neural muscle fibre recruitment (which occurs fairly rapidly - within weeks - and doesn't translate well to the action of pedalling) or from hypertrophy (which is the dominant and chronic factor required for strength gain).

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Please define endurance cycling.

Well the question wasn't directed at me, but I consider endurance cycling to be any event which is dominatly aerobic in nature.

That covers events from the individual pursuit and longer (although the IP does have an important contribution to the energy demand supplied by anaerobic metabolism - circa 25-33%).

IOW anything longer than a few minutes and we are talking endurance cycling.