Who deserves the Vélo d'Or the most so far?

[PremierAndrew]

Hahaha people still accusing Gva of being a wheelsucker, im so done

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Don't know really. If Van Avermaet is able to win Quebec/Montreal, Lombardia (on the 2014 route it's very much possible) or can become WC in Qatar (after a hard race), he surely deserves the Velo d'Or.

Just as Sagan, it's a rider who is able to perform well from february till the end of the year. And he has beaten Sagan a couple of times this year, which is also important.

As it stands now, if you look at the results of Sagan and GvA:

Sagan
1st Flanders (monument)
1st Gent-Wevelgem (semi-classic)
3 stages + green + couple of days yellow in the Tour

Van Avermaet
1st Olympics (as important as Flanders)
1st Omloop (semi-classic)
1st Tirreno (big stage race)
1 stage + couple of days yellow in the Tour

So both have won a monument/really big race + a semi-classic. In favour of Sagan is that he won more stages at the Tour + the green jersey, and some other minor wins in races like Suisse and California. On the other hand, Van Avermaet has won a big stage race.

So i think it's pretty equal atm.

No, it's not. You must take into account all notable results, not just the biggest wins.

Sagan won 9 races: Flanders, GW, 3 Tour stages, 2 Suisse stages and 2 California stages + Green Jersey. He was also second in Tirreno, E3 and Het Volk and 4th at Strade Bianche.

Van Avermaet won 5 races: Olympics RR, Tirreno GC + stage, Tour stage and Het Volk. He was 3rd at Qatar GC and National Championship and 5th at MSR and San Sebastian.

They are very similar riders and both target similar races, so I think that CQ Rankings or newly introduced UCI World Rankings provide a true picture of both riders season so far. Sagan has the edge in both (2183/1673 CQ, and 3233/2408 UCI).

So for me, Sagan has the edge. In fact I would put Froome ahead of Van Avermaet too...

First, Sagan is a better sprinter then Van Avermaet. So the fact he has won more races is not that impressive. If you are a good sprinter, you automatically win more races. If you take that argument, Kristoff could also have won Velo d'Or last year, because he has won more races then Valverde and Froome for example.

And don't forget GvA crashed hard in Flanders, so he could not chase a win in that race and Roubaix.

The Olympics is just something huge. In my opinion, if you win gold + winning the Omloop and Tirreno, you have a realistic chance to win the award best cyclist of the year.

For me, it's more about winning then getting minor places (or podiums). In my opinion, it can help define who's having the best season if it's really close. Like now. But we have to wait till the end of the season to really draw conclusions.

But GvA has a big chance to win it.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Don't know really. If Van Avermaet is able to win Quebec/Montreal, Lombardia (on the 2014 route it's very much possible) or can become WC in Qatar (after a hard race), he surely deserves the Velo d'Or.

Just as Sagan, it's a rider who is able to perform well from february till the end of the year. And he has beaten Sagan a couple of times this year, which is also important.

As it stands now, if you look at the results of Sagan and GvA:

Sagan
1st Flanders (monument)
1st Gent-Wevelgem (semi-classic)
3 stages + green + couple of days yellow in the Tour

Van Avermaet
1st Olympics (as important as Flanders)
1st Omloop (semi-classic)
1st Tirreno (big stage race)
1 stage + couple of days yellow in the Tour

So both have won a monument/really big race + a semi-classic. In favour of Sagan is that he won more stages at the Tour + the green jersey, and some other minor wins in races like Suisse and California. On the other hand, Van Avermaet has won a big stage race.

So i think it's pretty equal atm.

The Velo d'or isn't measured just in wins. Are you going to ignore who made second to GVA on tirreno and how? Are you going to ignore all other amazing Sagan's performances against a variety of different opponents? Are you going to ignore that every time Sagan is competing with Greg, Greg only wheelsucks him? Be it on a tirreno stage, a california stage trying to wheelsuck him 150 km out, etc.?

There's a points system in place to determine how has better results/wins. (Sagan is ahead, too)

The Velo d'Or should be for the best rider of the season. That is Peter (so far).

You are just biased. No point in starting a discussion when there's no objectivity in the air.

 

[dacooley]

the forum is quite interesting to read just because about 90% posters have huge problems with rationality.

as of now the award virtually goes to sagan for sure.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Don't know really. If Van Avermaet is able to win Quebec/Montreal, Lombardia (on the 2014 route it's very much possible) or can become WC in Qatar (after a hard race), he surely deserves the Velo d'Or.

Just as Sagan, it's a rider who is able to perform well from february till the end of the year. And he has beaten Sagan a couple of times this year, which is also important.

As it stands now, if you look at the results of Sagan and GvA:

Sagan
1st Flanders (monument)
1st Gent-Wevelgem (semi-classic)
3 stages + green + couple of days yellow in the Tour

Van Avermaet
1st Olympics (as important as Flanders)
1st Omloop (semi-classic)
1st Tirreno (big stage race)
1 stage + couple of days yellow in the Tour

So both have won a monument/really big race + a semi-classic. In favour of Sagan is that he won more stages at the Tour + the green jersey, and some other minor wins in races like Suisse and California. On the other hand, Van Avermaet has won a big stage race.

So i think it's pretty equal atm.

Olympics is more important than Flanders, even Van Avermaet said that, and he's Flemish.

That's also because he hasn't won Flanders yet and wants to forget his traumatic crash

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Don't know really. If Van Avermaet is able to win Quebec/Montreal, Lombardia (on the 2014 route it's very much possible) or can become WC in Qatar (after a hard race), he surely deserves the Velo d'Or.

Just as Sagan, it's a rider who is able to perform well from february till the end of the year. And he has beaten Sagan a couple of times this year, which is also important.

As it stands now, if you look at the results of Sagan and GvA:

Sagan
1st Flanders (monument)
1st Gent-Wevelgem (semi-classic)
3 stages + green + couple of days yellow in the Tour

Van Avermaet
1st Olympics (as important as Flanders)
1st Omloop (semi-classic)
1st Tirreno (big stage race)
1 stage + couple of days yellow in the Tour

So both have won a monument/really big race + a semi-classic. In favour of Sagan is that he won more stages at the Tour + the green jersey, and some other minor wins in races like Suisse and California. On the other hand, Van Avermaet has won a big stage race.

So i think it's pretty equal atm.

The Velo d'or isn't measured just in wins. Are you going to ignore who made second to GVA on tirreno and how? Are you going to ignore all other amazing Sagan's performances against a variety of different opponents? Are you going to ignore that every time Sagan is competing with Greg, Greg only wheelsucks him? Be it on a tirreno stage, a california stage trying to wheelsuck him 150 km out, etc.?

There's a points system in place to determine how has better results/wins. (Sagan is ahead, too)

The Velo d'Or should be for the best rider of the season. That is Peter (so far).

You are just biased. No point in starting a discussion when there's no objectivity in the air.

One clever guy once told me not to ever use the word "objective, objectivity or objective opinion. Is is always subjective opinion of somebody or some group of people. Then we have the facts or reality.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Don't know really. If Van Avermaet is able to win Quebec/Montreal, Lombardia (on the 2014 route it's very much possible) or can become WC in Qatar (after a hard race), he surely deserves the Velo d'Or.

Just as Sagan, it's a rider who is able to perform well from february till the end of the year. And he has beaten Sagan a couple of times this year, which is also important.

As it stands now, if you look at the results of Sagan and GvA:

Sagan
1st Flanders (monument)
1st Gent-Wevelgem (semi-classic)
3 stages + green + couple of days yellow in the Tour

Van Avermaet
1st Olympics (as important as Flanders)
1st Omloop (semi-classic)
1st Tirreno (big stage race)
1 stage + couple of days yellow in the Tour

So both have won a monument/really big race + a semi-classic. In favour of Sagan is that he won more stages at the Tour + the green jersey, and some other minor wins in races like Suisse and California. On the other hand, Van Avermaet has won a big stage race.

So i think it's pretty equal atm.

No, it's not. You must take into account all notable results, not just the biggest wins.

Sagan won 9 races: Flanders, GW, 3 Tour stages, 2 Suisse stages and 2 California stages + Green Jersey. He was also second in Tirreno, E3 and Het Volk and 4th at Strade Bianche.

Van Avermaet won 5 races: Olympics RR, Tirreno GC + stage, Tour stage and Het Volk. He was 3rd at Qatar GC and National Championship and 5th at MSR and San Sebastian.

They are very similar riders and both target similar races, so I think that CQ Rankings or newly introduced UCI World Rankings provide a true picture of both riders season so far. Sagan has the edge in both (2183/1673 CQ, and 3233/2408 UCI).

So for me, Sagan has the edge. In fact I would put Froome ahead of Van Avermaet too...

First, Sagan is a better sprinter then Van Avermaet. So the fact he has won more races is not that impressive. If you are a good sprinter, you automatically win more races. If you take that argument, Kristoff could also have won Velo d'Or last year, because he has won more races then Valverde and Froome for example.

And don't forget GvA crashed hard in Flanders, so he could not chase a win in that race and Roubaix.

The Olympics is just something huge. In my opinion, if you win gold + winning the Omloop and Tirreno, you have a realistic chance to win the award best cyclist of the year.

For me, it's more about winning then getting minor places (or podiums). In my opinion, it can help define who's having the best season if it's really close. Like now. But we have to wait till the end of the season to really draw conclusions.

But GvA has a big chance to win it.

GVA barely stands a chance! When you take into consideration who the previous winners were, and when you see that they are all generally TDF winners, he has a little chance. And Sagan seems to be their favorite also (maybe because of the green jersey, I don't know), cause he was voted 2nd last year, when there were 3-4 clearly better riders than him. So to me it looks that he hasn't got much of a chance

 

[Jakub]

GvA?

LOL, not a chance.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

GvA?

LOL, not a chance.

That's what they said of his Olympic chances as well.

He won a prestigious WT stage race, a prestigious semi-classic (that will be WT next year), a stage in the Tour with a few days in yellow and the Olympic Road Race (the most important one-day race in cycling). He clearly belongs in this discussion. Let's see what he does in the Laurentian classics, the Eneco Tour and the Giro di Lombardia.

 

[Fernandez]

If Valverde could do a top ten in La Vuelta...

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

If Valverde could do a top ten in La Vuelta...

It would be a memorable performance, but I doubt that would be enough...

 

[Valv.Piti]

it definitely wouldn't, but pretty insane nevertheless!

 

[Fernandez]

How many cyclists in history have completed a top ten position in all GTs in a single year?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

How many cyclists in history have completed a top ten position in all GTs in a single year?

Pointless statistic as the Vuelta used to take place in late April and there was very little time between the Vuelta and Giro. If the Vuelta was in September during the seventies than Eddy Merckx would have won all GTs in one season.

 

[Fernandez]

Re:

How many cyclists in history have completed a top ten position in all GTs in a single year?

From what I've riden in AS newspaper ONLY TWO riders have done it before: Raphael Geminiani and Gastone Nencini.

 

[Amnes2015]

there is no competition this year, Froome will win by a huge margin. tdf+olympic bronze vs 1 monument vs olympic road race

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

there is no competition this year, Froome will win by a huge margin. tdf+olympic bronze vs 1 monument vs olympic road race

New to cycling?

 

[Amnes2015]

Re: Re:

there is no competition this year, Froome will win by a huge margin. tdf+olympic bronze vs 1 monument vs olympic road race

New to cycling?

yeah, i'm 8y old and started watched cycling this summer

 

[MacBAir]

Re:

Hahaha people still accusing Gva of being a wheelsucker, im so done

Against Sagan he was deadweight 10 out of 10 times.

First, Sagan is a better sprinter then Van Avermaet. So the fact he has won more races is not that impressive. If you are a good sprinter, you automatically win more races. If you take that argument, Kristoff could also have won Velo d'Or last year, because he has won more races then Valverde and Froome for example.

And don't forget GvA crashed hard in Flanders, so he could not chase a win in that race and Roubaix.

The Olympics is just something huge. In my opinion, if you win gold + winning the Omloop and Tirreno, you have a realistic chance to win the award best cyclist of the year.

For me, it's more about winning then getting minor places (or podiums). In my opinion, it can help define who's having the best season if it's really close. Like now. But we have to wait till the end of the season to really draw conclusions.

But GvA has a big chance to win it.

What the F***? Are cyclists born with a great sprint? Doesn't Sagan work for that sprint? Doesn't Sagan have to give up a lot for that sprint? Are we supposed to not take into account all the great performances and results that Sagan achieved day after day at the Tour?

Sagan is just a much better rider, with a better season. Yes, Greg wasn't at RVV and PR (Sagan was growing in form, we all know that Greg had no chance at RVV) but Sagan wasn't in the olympics as well...

Sagan is a much better rider, having a better season.

Don't get me wrong, I love GVA and usually I prefer him to win against pretty much any rider... Besides Sagan. Because against Sagan, GVA is a wheelsucker in the cobbled classics, stage races, breakaways on smaller stage races like California even 150 KM away from the finish, etc.

Since the latest spring, if he is competing against Sagan in his usual way, I hope he loses 10 out of 10 races. But he is only an wheelsucker against Sagan. Purito is against everybody.

 

[El Pistolero]

If Sagan wasn't such a deadweight in the Ronde van Vlaanderen last year then Greg might have already won his first Ronde then.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

this is the same argument as messi vs. cristiano ronaldo,yes ronaldo won european championship and champions league and basically that will win him ballon dor...but messi is better player,he just is even with lesser achievements

so it comes down to what do the people who award the price value more,i value the entertainment more because im a fan of cycling first

Value the entertainment? I suppose that punching a spectator, attacking on a descent, and running up a mountain settles it then.

On a slightly more serious note, DL is still a pretty big one week race, so to go along with the TDF and an Olympic time trial bronze, Froome has to be a strong chance. Pretty close between he and Sagan. If he podiums at the Vuelta then that should settle it.

I am more biased to stage races over one day races though.

Continuing on that subject, it would be incredible if Valverde managed a top ten in the Vuelta. What about if that became a podium? A podium in the Giro, a top ten in the TDF, then a podium in the Vuelta....in a world where it seems impossible to do the double now, that's very impressive.

 

[Fernandez]

Re: Re:

this is the same argument as messi vs. cristiano ronaldo,yes ronaldo won european championship and champions league and basically that will win him ballon dor...but messi is better player,he just is even with lesser achievements

so it comes down to what do the people who award the price value more,i value the entertainment more because im a fan of cycling first

Value the entertainment? I suppose that punching a spectator, attacking on a descent, and running up a mountain settles it then.

On a slightly more serious note, DL is still a pretty big one week race, so to go along with the TDF and an Olympic time trial bronze, Froome has to be a strong chance. Pretty close between he and Sagan. If he podiums at the Vuelta then that should settle it.

I am more biased to stage races over one day races though.

Continuing on that subject, it would be incredible if Valverde managed a top ten in the Vuelta. What about if that became a podium? A podium in the Giro, a top ten in the TDF, then a podium in the Vuelta....in a world where it seems impossible to do the double now, that's very impressive.

If Valverde could manage to top ten or podium in La Vuelta, apart from fight to win through the entire season in others stage and one day races, in this specialist cycling world, equaling a feat of 60 years ago...; well, that would really be something BIG.

 

[trucido]

Re:

If Sagan wasn't such a deadweight in the Ronde van Vlaanderen last year then Greg might have already won his first Ronde then.

If Greg had bothered to be better rider in his mid twenties maybe he might have won a cobbled monument already like Degenkolb/Sagan/Kristoff have done.

 

[saganboss]

Re:

If Sagan wasn't such a deadweight in the Ronde van Vlaanderen last year then Greg might have already won his first Ronde then.

i hope you're joking because if not that was complete bs
1. if sagan wouldn't have been a dead weight then he would have probably beaten van avermaet for 3rd place or maybe more
2. van avermaet himself was not capable of catching terpstra and kristoff
3. there is no way in hell van avermaet would have beaten kristoff on a flat sprint even after 250 km

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

there is no competition this year, Froome will win by a huge margin. tdf+olympic bronze vs 1 monument vs olympic road race

New to cycling?

yeah, i'm 8y old and started watched cycling this summer

That's what I thought so...