Who deserves the Vélo d'Or the most so far?

[Jspear]

I will be shocked if Froome doesn't get it. Winning a GT, podiuming another GT plus an Olympic medal is enough to beat anyone this year. He has that and more.

 

[KGB]

I gave Golden Greg my vote last year. How can it be any different this year.

He's proved to being stronger than Sagan on the tougher routes. Even in the Omloop he was better. He won a mid-mountain Tour of France stage which is worth something while the ones Sagan won are peanuts, he got Olympic champion when Sagan judged the route too hard for him. He won a good kermess (Gullegem). He won the harder of the two French-Canadian races. Only thing is he couldn't race the spring classics but due to a crash.

Wau,you are smoking good stuff.What is it?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

I will be shocked if Froome doesn't get it. Winning a GT, podiuming another GT plus an Olympic medal is enough to beat anyone this year. He has that and more.

An Olympic medal in time trial. Meh.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

 

[Lexman]

Reichenbach for the Velo d'Or says Kirby...

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Reichenbach for the Velo d'Or says Kirby...

Are you sure? Simon Clarke was suppose to win MSR. That's a monument.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

Vuelta, Romandie, Catalunya, RdS + 3rd at Tour, Pais Vasco, San Luis. It's better than Contador in '14, though his crash probably compensated some.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

Vuelta, Romandie, Catalunya, RdS + 3rd at Tour, Pais Vasco, San Luis. It's better than Contador in '14, though his crash probably compensated some.

Contador won Vuelta (plus two stages), T-A and Pais Vasco. Quintana might have been third in the Tour, but his performance was weak and is an argument AGAINST him winning the Vélo d'Or. Contador came back from a big injury to win the Vuelta, totally different story. And no one dominated the GTs or one-day races in 2014.

Gent-Wevelgem + Ronde van Vlaanderen + GP Quebec + European Championships is pretty impressive so far for Sagan.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

Vuelta, Romandie, Catalunya, RdS + 3rd at Tour, Pais Vasco, San Luis. It's better than Contador in '14, though his crash probably compensated some.

Contador won Vuelta (plus two stages), T-A and Pais Vasco. Quintana might have been third in the Tour, but his performance was weak and is an argument AGAINST him winning the Vélo d'Or. Contador came back from a big injury to win the Vuelta, totally different story. And no one dominated the GTs or one-day races in 2014.

Gent-Wevelgem + Ronde van Vlaanderen + GP Quebec + European Championships is pretty impressive so far for Sagan.

But him winning the Vuelta despite having ridden the Tour is a major argument FOR him. Surely you're not suggesting that Quintana's achievements this season are less impressive than Contador's in 2014

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

Vuelta, Romandie, Catalunya, RdS + 3rd at Tour, Pais Vasco, San Luis. It's better than Contador in '14, though his crash probably compensated some.

Contador won Vuelta (plus two stages), T-A and Pais Vasco. Quintana might have been third in the Tour, but his performance was weak and is an argument AGAINST him winning the Vélo d'Or. Contador came back from a big injury to win the Vuelta, totally different story. And no one dominated the GTs or one-day races in 2014.

Gent-Wevelgem + Ronde van Vlaanderen + GP Quebec + European Championships is pretty impressive so far for Sagan.

But him winning the Vuelta despite having ridden the Tour is a major argument FOR him. Surely you're not suggesting that Quintana's achievements this season are less impressive than Contador's in 2014

They are. Vuelta's field wasn't very strong anyway. He lost more than 2 minutes in a medium length time trial. He was lucky Contador won him the race or he'd have another year with no big wins.

 

[PremierAndrew]

And by the same logic, I could say Contador is lucky Froome was so bad in 2014 Vuelta, because the Froome that turned up to this year's Vuelta would have destroyed that Froome

And I find it a bit ironic to see you dismissing Quintana's Vuelta win as lucky when you defend Nibali's wins all the time

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

And by the same logic, I could say Contador is lucky Froome was so bad in 2014 Vuelta, because the Froome that turned up to this year's Vuelta would have destroyed that Froome

And I find it a bit ironic to see you dismissing Quintana's Vuelta win as lucky when you defend Nibali's wins all the time

Froome's mistake was a judgement error, Kruijswijk's mistake was not being a good descender. Froome wasn't stronger than in 2014 anyway, he got dropped by Chaves on the stage where Quintana and Contador broke away.

Sagan wins, even with no team. Froome always fails when he can't rely on his super strong Sky squad (as seen in the Olympics Road Race and Vuelta this year).

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

And by the same logic, I could say Contador is lucky Froome was so bad in 2014 Vuelta, because the Froome that turned up to this year's Vuelta would have destroyed that Froome

And I find it a bit ironic to see you dismissing Quintana's Vuelta win as lucky when you defend Nibali's wins all the time

Froome's mistake was a judgement error, Kruijswijk's mistake was not being a good descender. Froome wasn't stronger than in 2014 anyway, he got dropped by Chaves on the stage where Quintana and Contador broke away.

Sagan wins, even with no team. Froome always fails when he can't rely on his super strong Sky squad (as seen in the Olympics Road Race and Vuelta this year).

It's not like Froome completely spent himself before the final climb... or let me guess, it's just a coincidence that it was the only day Chaves gained time on Froome mano a mano (not counting times when Chaves was allowed up the road as CF and NQ were too busy watching each other).
Just look at the differences in Froome's times up Cavadonga in 2014 and 2016 if you don't think he was better in this year's Vuelta.

And Froome's mistake was a judgement error but Kruijswijk's wasn't? Are you trying to suggest that if he had been sensible and let Nibali (who was attacking Valverde, not Kruijswijk) and Chaves go, he would have lost all of his 3 (or 4 to Nibali) minute gap? And that's ignoring the fact SK (a guy who has a history of being at his best in the 3rd week of GTs) would probably have gained even more time on Nibali uphill, who just looked good because Chaves' form in 3rd week was non-existent

And make your mind up. Was Froome going to win despite a s***ty team and Quintana lucky to win or Froome inept without a strong team? Can't be both.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I gave Golden Greg my vote last year. How can it be any different this year.

He's proved to being stronger than Sagan on the tougher routes. Even in the Omloop he was better. He won a mid-mountain Tour of France stage which is worth something while the ones Sagan won are peanuts, he got Olympic champion when Sagan judged the route too hard for him. He won a good kermess (Gullegem). He won the harder of the two French-Canadian races. Only thing is he couldn't race the spring classics but due to a crash.

I can't say I agree with much of this... Let's walk through the season clashes of GVA and Sagan to see what actually happened:

I won't include races where one or the other of the duo was absent, as well as Tour of California for the sake of making a fair comparison.

Omloop: Van Avermaet played his cards right, and Sagan probably wasn't quite at his best yet at that point in the season. The only race of the season, where GVA was possibly the stronger of the two. - GVA wins
Strade Bianche: Van Avermaet was not strong enough to close down Sagan/Stybar's move. He can't say he didn't have the option of following, since Cancellara single-handedly closed the gap from behind. - Sagan wins
Tirreno: Sagan was a second away from winning Tirreno Adriatico. Van Avermaet won the race because BMC won the team time trial - not because he was any stronger than Sagan at any point. - Sagan wins
Milano San-Remo: Hard to say who was the strongest of the two. Both tried their luck with no success. - tie
Gent-Wevelgem No doubt, Sagan was stronger. Van Avermaet simply didn't have the necessary power to follow, when Cancellara and Sagan opened up. - Sagan wins
Tour de France This is a difficult one. In the end, Sagan had better results, but Van Avermaet also had his moments. I'll give it to Sagan, though. First of all, Sagan won, when the level competition was it its highest (Especially the stages to Cherbourg and Bern), while Van Avermaet only had to "defeat" two or three opponents, including an in-form De Gendt and an off-form Majka. Secondly, Sagan was in the break for several mountain-stages, not working for himself but actually for his team. Eventually he was still only centimeters away from winning on Champs Elysees, having already put in a massive amount of work during the last week. Van Avermaet was in the breaks aswell, but didn't have to put in the same effort. - Sagan wins
Canadian WT events For me, Sagan takes the cake as the strongest rider. To use your own evaluation method, Sagan was actually very strong in the toughest of the two races. If you honestly believe that Van Avermaet had won the race, if he had put in the same amount of work to close gaps like Sagan did, then that is your call.. I don't believe so. Tactically great riding from GVA, but not a proof of superior strength. - Sagan wins.

Atleast in my view, it's pretty obvious that Sagan has been the stronger rider during their 2016 encounters. However, tactically, Van Avermaet has been the smarter rider - which is also the main reason, he's starting to win races.

 

[Red Rick]

Lots of woulda coulda shoulda's in this thread. Sagan has more big wins than Froome and it's not close. Only argument for Froome is the Tour being the Tour, winning the Dauphine, and for the rest it would be emphasizing on not-wins.

 

[Jagartrott]

I can't say I agree with much of this... Let's walk through the season clashes of GVA and Sagan to see what actually happened:

I think Sagan should win the Velo d'Or for his season up to now, but I think your method of comparing is a bit stupid. Tactics is part of cycling. Otherwise we could just put them on rollers and measure who does the most Watts ('strength', in your interpretation).

They're both great cyclists. Entertaining and around the whole season (as opposed to Froome).

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

Vuelta, Romandie, Catalunya, RdS + 3rd at Tour, Pais Vasco, San Luis. It's better than Contador in '14, though his crash probably compensated some.

Contador won Vuelta (plus two stages), T-A and Pais Vasco. Quintana might have been third in the Tour, but his performance was weak and is an argument AGAINST him winning the Vélo d'Or. Contador came back from a big injury to win the Vuelta, totally different story. And no one dominated the GTs or one-day races in 2014.

Gent-Wevelgem + Ronde van Vlaanderen + GP Quebec + European Championships is pretty impressive so far for Sagan.

Shifting goalposts. I've highlighted your previous post. It's quite clear that it is about Quintana vs GvA.

PS: I don't get why you felt the need to point out that Contador won two stages in the Vuelta. Guess how many Quintana won?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

PS: I don't get why you felt the need to point out that Contador won two stages in the Vuelta. Guess how many Quintana won?

One?

 

[Netserk]

Lol, I forgot all about Brambilla taking the stage win from Quintana My bad.

 

[deValtos]

Sagan has had a good season but I don't think it warrants the trophy. I think it's missing something like another monument win (or WC RR.)

I don't value the olympic bronze in the TT much though but Froome has done enough outside of the Tour to take this. He has had the best season of any rider so far in 2016. A classics rider needs more than one monument (or olympic/wc) to challenge this.

 

[El Pistolero]

I gave Golden Greg my vote last year. How can it be any different this year.

He's proved to being stronger than Sagan on the tougher routes. Even in the Omloop he was better. He won a mid-mountain Tour of France stage which is worth something while the ones Sagan won are peanuts, he got Olympic champion when Sagan judged the route too hard for him. He won a good kermess (Gullegem). He won the harder of the two French-Canadian races. Only thing is he couldn't race the spring classics but due to a crash.

I can't say I agree with much of this... Let's walk through the season clashes of GVA and Sagan to see what actually happened:

I won't include races where one or the other of the duo was absent, as well as Tour of California for the sake of making a fair comparison.

Omloop: Van Avermaet played his cards right, and Sagan probably wasn't quite at his best yet at that point in the season. The only race of the season, where GVA was possibly the stronger of the two. - GVA wins
Strade Bianche: Van Avermaet was not strong enough to close down Sagan/Stybar's move. He can't say he didn't have the option of following, since Cancellara single-handedly closed the gap from behind. - Sagan wins
Tirreno: Sagan was a second away from winning Tirreno Adriatico. Van Avermaet won the race because BMC won the team time trial - not because he was any stronger than Sagan at any point. - Sagan wins
Milano San-Remo: Hard to say who was the strongest of the two. Both tried their luck with no success. - tie
Gent-Wevelgem No doubt, Sagan was stronger. Van Avermaet simply didn't have the necessary power to follow, when Cancellara and Sagan opened up. - Sagan wins
Tour de France This is a difficult one. In the end, Sagan had better results, but Van Avermaet also had his moments. I'll give it to Sagan, though. First of all, Sagan won, when the level competition was it its highest (Especially the stages to Cherbourg and Bern), while Van Avermaet only had to "defeat" two or three opponents, including an in-form De Gendt and an off-form Majka. Secondly, Sagan was in the break for several mountain-stages, not working for himself but actually for his team. Eventually he was still only centimeters away from winning on Champs Elysees, having already put in a massive amount of work during the last week. Van Avermaet was in the breaks aswell, but didn't have to put in the same effort. - Sagan wins
Canadian WT events For me, Sagan takes the cake as the strongest rider. To use your own evaluation method, Sagan was actually very strong in the toughest of the two races. If you honestly believe that Van Avermaet had won the race, if he had put in the same amount of work to close gaps like Sagan did, then that is your call.. I don't believe so. Tactically great riding from GVA, but not a proof of superior strength. - Sagan wins.

Atleast in my view, it's pretty obvious that Sagan has been the stronger rider during their 2016 encounters. However, tactically, Van Avermaet has been the smarter rider - which is also the main reason, he's starting to win races.

You forgot that GVA became sick right before Harelbeke (which he skipped) and was still recovering at Gent-Wevelgem.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

Of course he is and if I had to pick one, it would be Quintana. It was better than Contador's'' 2014-season .
Who cares if he crashed or was sick? Its not an argument for GVA. He missed the spring classics and there''s that - who knows how we would fare. Its irrelevant, we can only judge riders by the races they attended and the race they'v'e won and it just so happens that Quintana has won Vuelta, Romandie and Catalunya. Every race with Contador and Froome present, apart from Romandie where Contador didn't attend.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Very hard to judge, but as of right now:

1. Froome
2. Sagan
3. GVA/Quintana

Quintana is not on the same level as GVA this year. He was terrible for his main objective.

Olympic gold in the road race is also bigger than a Vuelta win. It's a shame GVA crashed out for the spring classics.

Of course he is and if I had to pick one, it would be Quintana. It was better than Contador's'' 2014-season .
Who cares if he crashed or was sick? Its not an argument for GVA. He missed the spring classics and there''s that - who knows how we would fare. Its irrelevant, we can only judge riders by the races they attended and the race they'v'e won and it just so happens that Quintana has won Vuelta, Romandie and Catalunya. Every race with Contador and Froome present, apart from Romandie where Contador didn't attend.

Don't be ridiculous. Pisti prefers GVA over Quintana. Therefore GVA had the better season

 

[Brullnux]

Sagan wining in WCRR or GDL will close this thread.
More and more I think rhere will be no bunch sprint in Doha. As I see it know it is Germany, GB (France) against the rest. Sagan is beatable in smaller group especially being isolated and agaist two strong riders from 2-3 teams. If they allowe bunch sprint it is only two men show :Cav and Kittel (Greipel)

Sagan is not winning GdL. 4400m of climbing. Not happening, I doubt he turns up. GVA might turn up, and might win seeing how he is going in races that he normally should have no business winning.

Sagan, Froome, Quintana and GvA are the contenders. GvA ofc has the (very large) hole of the spring classics, due to crashes and illness. However that has to be taken into account, so unless he does win a monument this year, he is out, unfortunately. Quintana lost his main goal by so much that he is out too, despite his great Vuelta. I mean, he was completely outclassed in the Tour. Froome has a shot, but only did well in 4 races all year. Sagan for me

 

[jsem94]

Should still be Sagan. Even though a 1-2 in the Tour and then Vuelta is amazing.