Who do you think is clean?

[Chuffy]

Another vote for little Tommy and Geraint. I'd out a couple of quid on Cav, even if he is a poisonous little dwarf and pretty much all of the Garmin boys.

 

[veganrob]

Agree with Cav. He has enough attitude to get the job done.

 

[Arnout]

Almost everyone. Just by looking at the jump in performance many of the dopers of recent years experienced and the economic tradoff of doping and not doping.

Only a few of the top riders may be doping and some desperate individuals.

Funny that fellow countrymen dope less than other riders by the way.

 

[hektoren]

Cadel Evans, Richie Porte, Peter Sagan, EBH, Hushovd, Kristoff, Lövquist, Jens Vogt, Farrar, Cavendish, Peter Kennaugh, Geraint Thomas, Arvesen, Nicholas Roche, to name but a few.

 

[Ferminal]

Almost everyone. Just by looking at the jump in performance many of the dopers of recent years experienced and the economic tradoff of doping and not doping.

Only a few of the top riders may be doping and some desperate individuals.

Funny that fellow countrymen dope less than other riders by the way.

Yes, a huge economic tradeoff between being a top10 TdF contender and pack fodder. I'm guessing these guys would earn hundreds of thousands upwards to multi millions for Contador/Schleck.

Even Contador getting caught and losing 12-24months of income still doesn't make it a bad decision. He would have earned many millions in the last 4 years, compare that to what he would be earning without doping and being the best GT rider in the world?

 

[hrotha]

Agree with Cav. He has enough attitude to get the job done.

Where does attitude come into this? Luc Leblanc was one of the guys with the most badass attitude in modern cycling, but he still doped like almost everyone else in his time.

 

[Neworld]

Oh sure, I'll get right on it.

I said we...

anyway, the facts are in these pages, they're just beneath books of threads like this.

NW

 

[Arnout]

Yes, a huge economic tradeoff between being a top10 TdF contender and pack fodder. I'm guessing these guys would earn hundreds of thousands upwards to multi millions for Contador/Schleck.

Even Contador getting caught and losing 12-24months of income still doesn't make it a bad decision. He would have earned many millions in the last 4 years, compare that to what he would be earning without doping and being the best GT rider in the world?

Either you improve a little by doping and you won't earn much more or you dope a lot and earn more, but you will probably get caught soon (what were the surprising performances of the past years? Kohl, Ricco, Schumacher, etc...).

Doping doesn't really work, except for EPO, which is quite easy to discover without the money to hide it. Only for top riders it will be a viable option.

 

[Ferminal]

Either you improve a little by doping and you won't earn much more or you dope a lot and earn more, but you will probably get caught soon (what were the surprising performances of the past years? Kohl, Ricco, Schumacher, etc...).

Doping doesn't really work, except for EPO, which is quite easy to discover without the money to hide it. Only for top riders it will be a viable option.

So you're saying that Ricco, Schumacher and Kohl doped more than Armstrong, Rasmussen and Ullrich?

EPO is easy to hide no matter how much money you have - Frei explained it well.

Are you saying that blood transfusions do not work?

 

[hrotha]

So you're saying that Ricco, Schumacher and Kohl doped more than Armstrong, Rasmussen and Ullrich?

EPO is easy to hide no matter how much money you have - Frei explained it well.

Are you saying that blood transfusions do not work?

Do you agree that things like the biological passport have limited somewhat the boost you can get from doping compared to the golden years before 1997? If so, it's perfectly reasonable to think Riccò, Schumacher and Kohl doped more, relatively speaking (i.e. compared to their contemporaries), than Armstrong, Rasmussen and Ullrich. Riccò not so much, but Schumacher and Kohl did achieve some colourful improvement all of a sudden, and that might suggest the "safe" levels of doping are smaller, so you'd get more of an advantage compared to other guys if you decided to go all out and take more risks.

That said, guys like Ullrich and especially Armstrong had the best programs around, which means they could dope a hell of a lot without taking many risks.

 

[Granville57]

OK, I totally chumped this when jumping on the David Millar bandwagon (doesn't fit the OP criteria).

So I choose Ted King.

From his website:

Things to do:
Cook. In particular, I like to bake. Some say that isn’t manly, but it’s a true man who can admit that. If you disagree, I’ll whip up an extraordinarily hot souffle and throw it in your face.

I mean c'mon, does that sound like a doper?

Either Tommy D. is clean or he is on the worst doping program ever. LOL

 

[Arnout]

So you're saying that Ricco, Schumacher and Kohl doped more than Armstrong, Rasmussen and Ullrich?

EPO is easy to hide no matter how much money you have - Frei explained it well.

Are you saying that blood transfusions do not work?

Those were other days (btw both Armstrong and Rasmussen were proved to be doping in hindsight, showing tests improve over time).

And yeah, comparatively they doped more. Bio passport may have its flaws, but there are numerous riders caught using it already, and most of them showed spikes in performances, giving me reason to conclude that the riders without the spikes were more or less clean.

 

[Anonymous]

Im not 100% sure on anyone, but Id like to hope that the younger talents and future stars, the likes of Porte, Roche, Thomas, Kennaugh, Boasson Hagen, Sagan are doing it clean.

If they arent our sport really is screwed.

 

[Benotti69]

i think the younger guys should be trying harder to prove their clean.

How?

I dont know.

Talking publicly about the sport getting rid of cheats for a start. Talk about harder/longer sentences for testing positive.

 

[Altitude]

Am I the only one who is getting tired of these "who is clean? "is so and so clean?" "who is cleaner, X or Y?" threads that keep popping up here?
Maybe we need a special Dream Clinic where we can debate these idiotic premises without cluttering up the serious part of the clinic.

There's a serious part of the clinic?

 

[Altitude]

Jens Voigt

Not a chance.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

OK, I totally chumped this when jumping on the David Millar bandwagon (doesn't fit the OP criteria).

So I choose Ted King.

From his website:
I mean c'mon, does that sound like a doper?

While it doesn't sound like the words of a doper, I've met Patrik Sinkewitz and found him to be one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet. Back in 2009 somebody on here mentioned the Liberty Seguros Continental team using their wind tunnel, and Isidro Nozal being one of the nicest people you could ever meet, quiet, friendly, humble. Gianni Savio said that Emanuele Sella was shy and retiring, and feels that he was simply quite emotionally weak and surrounded by the wrong type of people.

It doesn't sound like the words of a doper, but we must also recognise that not seeming like a doper is not enough to say that someone isn't one.

 

[erader]

While it doesn't sound like the words of a doper, I've met Patrik Sinkewitz and found him to be one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet. Back in 2009 somebody on here mentioned the Liberty Seguros Continental team using their wind tunnel, and Isidro Nozal being one of the nicest people you could ever meet, quiet, friendly, humble. Gianni Savio said that Emanuele Sella was shy and retiring, and feels that he was simply quite emotionally weak and surrounded by the wrong type of people.

It doesn't sound like the words of a doper, but we must also recognise that not seeming like a doper is not enough to say that someone isn't one.

tyler hamilton is a really nice guy too. at the ATOC it was common to see him posing with fans for pictures and signing autographs.

erader

 

[Granville57]

It doesn't sound like the words of a doper, but we must also recognise that not seeming like a doper is not enough to say that someone isn't one.

Of course! Hence the smiley guy. If we were to actually get serious about any of this, then I'd be right there with PSQ on this one:

Honestly, do you expect anyone to even bet a theoretical penny on the word of a pro cyclist?

I have absolutely no way of telling if any riders are clean. But in the spirit of this particular thread, why not lean towards those that might be?

I think it's actually healthy that a lot of people here just assume that most top riders dope, and that any great performance or achievement is something to be smiled at with a quiet sense of irony. As if to say, "Maybe they're clean, maybe not. That was an amazing ride (pick one...) though! Hmmm, probably a doper but provided some fun entertainment!"

Seriously. At least that how I've come to watch the pros.
Sometimes though, it does make me pretty damn angry.

 

[TexPat]

tyler hamilton is a really nice guy too. at the ATOC it was common to see him posing with fans for pictures and signing autographs.

erader

Ha! I was going to offer the same example. Super nice guy, but...
I had a very short and instantly explosive exchange with a guy on a bunch ride last week who suggested that they just let 'em all dope. I'll let you guess what my response was.
Anyway, after the expletives were released, another more reasonable fellow pulled alongside and inquired about clean riders.
My response: the lanterne rouge, likely most of the French (the cheese-eating, clean-under-penalty-of-imprisonment-surrender-monkeys), riders on under-funded teams, and Tom Danielson based solely on an unfavorable comment about him I once heard.
I find myself defending cycling as often as I criticise it, always coming round to the "everybody does it" statement. In my heart, I know this is not true.

 

[Benotti69]

Ha! I was going to offer the same example. Super nice guy, but...
I had a very short and instantly explosive exchange with a guy on a bunch ride last week who suggested that they just let 'em all dope. I'll let you guess what my response was.
Anyway, after the expletives were released, another more reasonable fellow pulled alongside and inquired about clean riders.
My response: the lanterne rouge, likely most of the French (the cheese-eating, clean-under-penalty-of-imprisonment-surrender-monkeys), riders on under-funded teams, and Tom Danielson based solely on an unfavorable comment about him I once heard.
I find myself defending cycling as often as I criticise it, always coming round to the "everybody does it" statement. In my heart, I know this is not true.

Mike any opinion on JV's team, slipstream/garmin/cervelo???

 

[online-rider]

David Millar. Maybe.

I've said before that if Millar were doping now...he'd have to be one of the most pathological peeps to ever ride a bike. And that is saying somethin'.

So I'd second the DM nomination.

(Not that anything would shock me, however )

Guys read the OP

.........(and I mean totally clean - for their whole career - nothing illegal whatsoever) .........

DM is dirty as f***

 

[TexPat]

Mike any opinion on JV's team, slipstream/garmin/cervelo???

I hope there are some clean ones in those teams. On a hunch, I'd say the teams with few victories are clean. JV's avoidance, obfuscation, silence and history don't bode well for a clean team, however.
At the end of the day, it's the choice of the individual to dope or not.
Maybe it's better that I don't know who is and who isn't.

 

[Granville57]

Guys read the OP
DM is dirty as f***

I did. That was the point of my second post.

OK, I totally chumped this when jumping on the David Millar bandwagon (doesn't fit the OP criteria).

So I choose Ted King.

 

[runninboy]

Chris Horner, and before anyone starts laughing I'll tell you why. He was amazing as a young rider. Just like Lemond was. I don't think Horner has told his life story but I live in Socal and my team was sponsored by a local bikeshop. Horner used to work there and i found out he used to sleep there because he didnt have the money for a place to live. When people found out he got a sponsored ride at like 500 hundred a month and he was happy as a clam. I would go to races and here is this kid in a ponytail taking flyers off the front and stealing races from the pro's. I go to this one race, LA sheriff's are there and a few other Pro teams, I talked to the manager and he said the guy they had to worry about was horner. period. I thought that was kind of funny. During the race Chris was up to his usual antics, animating the field, starting breaks, staying off solo for laps at a time. He was in a two man break that got swallowed up with less than 5 laps to go(criterium) and it was sad because you wanted to see him do well. Well the Pro's got their leadout trains in order and it was gonna be a battle between Subaru Montgormery i think and LA Sheriff's who had a long line of riders pulling qround Malcom Elliot. Then from the corner before the final straight i hear the crowd go nuts, here comes Horner flying off the front, spoiling the leadouts. Sheriffs chased hard for two laps used up most of their train trying to bring him back, which they managed to do on the last lap and Elliot took the sprint easy, but Horner still was able to sprint after all that and hang on for a top 5 finish. This was against guys like Steve Hegg, Jeff Pierce, Bobby Julich who had to go all out to chase him down. I know he wasn't on drugs then he could barely afford food. He has raced the same way his whole life, I would say from personal experience he was the greatest natural talent from the US since Lemond. If he did switch to the other side it would be too bad because he sure didnt improve too much he was already friggin amazing.
Oh yeah after the race i talked some to the LA Sheriff's most of the team were kind of ticked off at Horner and the manager was ticked off at them.
The riders didn;t have much respect for the lil punk in the ponytail, but the manager was impressed."We knew exactly what he was gonna do, he did it and almost got away with it, i wish he was on our team"
He said that right in front of his own riders. TDF riders, some of the best Pro's of the time. I tell u what tho in hindsight the only rider really giving props to Horner was Elliott. Class act Malcolm.