Who has the best palmares: Valverde vs. Nibali

[Arredondo]

Re:

Nobody now has the palmares of Valverde, he is the best cyclist of the world of the last years.

Of course Nibali has important achievaments, 2 Giros, Tour, Vuelta, Lombardia,.. but Valverde has a wide palmares, he wins things from february to octover. He has been up there lot of times times in the best races of the world except cobbles...

You're right, Bala delivers more then 12 months

 

[Miburo]

I think piti has the biggest raw talent, i don't think anyone can see past that.

In terms of palmares, i take Canc's and Contador's above his in terms of current riders.

For this poll, it's hard but i'll take piti.

 

[Arredondo]

Re:

Valverde. Although Nibali came closer with this Giro win.
Only current cyclist who has a better palmares then Valverde IMO is Contador. Valverde is in the league of Boonen and Cancellara. His palmares is massive. You named only biggest wins, but the guy have nearly 100 victories!!! And he is a freaking climber, not a sprinter! In fact only 3 sprinters in the current peloton have more wins (Cavendish, Greipel and Boonen). Not to mention his unparalleled 6 WCRR medals (all-time record), his 8 GT podiums (record among active riders, shared with Nibali), each of the GT's at least once, his 15 top 10 placings in GT's (active riders record), his 14 GT stage wins (won in all 3 GT's), his 42 WT level wins, and finally and not the least importantly, his 4 WT ranking victories which puts him in the same league with Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, Kelly and Jalabert.
Nibali's palmares is also very good and full of biggest wins, but I think he lacks a little bit to be in the same league as Valverde

How do you mean that? Because Merckx, Hinault, Kelly and Amquetil have a way better palmares then Valverde.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Valverde. Although Nibali came closer with this Giro win.
Only current cyclist who has a better palmares then Valverde IMO is Contador. Valverde is in the league of Boonen and Cancellara. His palmares is massive. You named only biggest wins, but the guy have nearly 100 victories!!! And he is a freaking climber, not a sprinter! In fact only 3 sprinters in the current peloton have more wins (Cavendish, Greipel and Boonen). Not to mention his unparalleled 6 WCRR medals (all-time record), his 8 GT podiums (record among active riders, shared with Nibali), each of the GT's at least once, his 15 top 10 placings in GT's (active riders record), his 14 GT stage wins (won in all 3 GT's), his 42 WT level wins, and finally and not the least importantly, his 4 WT ranking victories which puts him in the same league with Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, Kelly and Jalabert.
Nibali's palmares is also very good and full of biggest wins, but I think he lacks a little bit to be in the same league as Valverde

How do you mean that? Because Merckx, Hinault, Kelly and Amquetil have a way better palmares then Valverde.

I think in terms of winning the season-long competitions, Desgrange-Colombo(1948-1958), Super Prestige Pernod (1959-1988), UCI World Rankings (1984-2004), and UCI World Tour (2005- present). They all have 4 or more wins.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Valverde. Although Nibali came closer with this Giro win.
Only current cyclist who has a better palmares then Valverde IMO is Contador. Valverde is in the league of Boonen and Cancellara. His palmares is massive. You named only biggest wins, but the guy have nearly 100 victories!!! And he is a freaking climber, not a sprinter! In fact only 3 sprinters in the current peloton have more wins (Cavendish, Greipel and Boonen). Not to mention his unparalleled 6 WCRR medals (all-time record), his 8 GT podiums (record among active riders, shared with Nibali), each of the GT's at least once, his 15 top 10 placings in GT's (active riders record), his 14 GT stage wins (won in all 3 GT's), his 42 WT level wins, and finally and not the least importantly, his 4 WT ranking victories which puts him in the same league with Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, Kelly and Jalabert.
Nibali's palmares is also very good and full of biggest wins, but I think he lacks a little bit to be in the same league as Valverde

How do you mean that? Because Merckx, Hinault, Kelly and Amquetil have a way better palmares then Valverde.

I think in terms of winning the season-long competitions, Desgrange-Colombo(1948-1958), Super Prestige Pernod (1959-1988), UCI World Rankings (1984-2004), and UCI World Tour (2005- present). They all have 4 or more wins.

I get it. Yeah, something i can't disagree about

 

[markene2]

Bala no doubt!

Even though i like Nibbles better

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

I'd rather win the WC once and never podium again than getting 6 WC podiums without a win. For me it shows he lacks the killer instinct Nibali and Contador have.

 

[Taxus4a]

To open this poll just after Nibali beat Valverde in the Giro could make some people get wrong.. it is not a good moment...

It is just a question of to see CQ ranking...but I like a lot the palmares of Nibali, and I was so lucky to celebrate his Vuelta with him that night. I will never forget that moment and I am happy he has this big palmarés now.

 

[Nick C.]

Valverde does have all those World's podiums. Was there even one worlds outside of 2006 where he was in the mix for the win? Considering how it played out I can't say 2013 is in his favor. Though he was head to head with Nibali and outsprinted him for the bronze.

Nibali does have Lombardia, a Liege podium and a Milan San Remo podium. In all honesty that and the Grand Tour hattrick is the tipping point for me. Valverde is a great, great rider. He is one of the leading lights of his generation, but I have to give it to Nibali.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

I'd rather win the WC once and never podium again than getting 6 WC podiums without a win. For me it shows he lacks the killer instinct Nibali and Contador have.

And...you've just proved my point. YOU don't care about anything other than wins in specific races. It's not a complete look at each rider's palmares so your thread title is misleading. It's skewed to produce results based on what YOU think should matter. You're not truly allowing an open debate (though some posters have seen through this and voted for Bala anyway) as it's not a complete look at each rider's palmares.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

I'd rather win the WC once and never podium again than getting 6 WC podiums without a win. For me it shows he lacks the killer instinct Nibali and Contador have.

Well maybe you. 6 WC podiums is massive achievement, all time record. The closest is at 4, and in the current peloton at 2. This record is untouchable in my opinion, it will be almost impossible to top it. It's the testament of Valverde's consistency and versatility. It worth more than a single win IMO.
And to say that a rider who won nearly 100 times lacks a killer instinct..

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

I'd rather win the WC once and never podium again than getting 6 WC podiums without a win. For me it shows he lacks the killer instinct Nibali and Contador have.

And...you've just proved my point. YOU don't care about anything other than wins in specific races. It's not a complete look at each rider's palmares so your thread title is misleading. It's skewed to produce results based on what YOU think should matter. You're not truly allowing an open debate (though some posters have seen through this and voted for Bala anyway) as it's not a complete look at each rider's palmares.

The OP was written by one person so how it can objective

Those 6 podiums are not really an achievement in comparison with 1 GT victory imo

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

I'd rather win the WC once and never podium again than getting 6 WC podiums without a win. For me it shows he lacks the killer instinct Nibali and Contador have.

And...you've just proved my point. YOU don't care about anything other than wins in specific races. It's not a complete look at each rider's palmares so your thread title is misleading. It's skewed to produce results based on what YOU think should matter. You're not truly allowing an open debate (though some posters have seen through this and voted for Bala anyway) as it's not a complete look at each rider's palmares.

Completely agree.

A palmarés is SO much more than just wins, fortunately. Valverde has the biggest by miles and it doesn't lack the big wins either.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

I'd rather win the WC once and never podium again than getting 6 WC podiums without a win. For me it shows he lacks the killer instinct Nibali and Contador have.

Well maybe you. 6 WC podiums is massive achievement, all time record. The closest is at 4, and in the current peloton at 2. This record is untouchable in my opinion, it will be almost impossible to top it. It's the testament of Valverde's consistency and versatility. It worth more than a single win IMO.
And to say that a rider who won nearly 100 times lacks a killer instinct..

Yeah,I like also the consistency of Andy,all those 2nd places,such an impressive achievement!

 

[jaylew]

Despite my problem with your thread, good to have you back.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Bala.
Not surprising considering I've argued that Valverde has the best palmarés in the whole peloton, so obviously also better than Nibali's. I don't think the first post is making Valverde enough justice - those results are just a tip of the iceberg.

Exactly.This a skewed poll with the 1st post designed to get a predetermined winner. Instead of letting the user truly decide, the first post only lists results the OP thinks are worthy. Leaving out 6 WC podiums, for example, borders on absurd.

I'd rather win the WC once and never podium again than getting 6 WC podiums without a win. For me it shows he lacks the killer instinct Nibali and Contador have.

Well maybe you. 6 WC podiums is massive achievement, all time record. The closest is at 4, and in the current peloton at 2. This record is untouchable in my opinion, it will be almost impossible to top it. It's the testament of Valverde's consistency and versatility. It worth more than a single win IMO.
And to say that a rider who won nearly 100 times lacks a killer instinct..

Yeah,I like also the consistency of Andy,all those 2nd places,such an impressive achievement!

Andy Schleck was 2nd at the Tour 3 times, while Joop Zoetemelk was 2nd six times, and that was quite an achievement. I will remind you that Zoetemelk is voted best Dutch cyclist of the 20th Century. Although I rank Valverde's WC podiums higher than Zoetemelk's cause in my opinion it's harder to finish constantly on the podium of WC than TDF, due to the constant changes of the course.
So, back to A.Schleck, he needs 3-4 more TDF podiums, and then we could talk..

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Any objective ranking of riders would have Zoetemelk among the best (not the Merckx-Anquetil-Hinault-Kelly level but you know, he's going to be in top 20-25 of all time, almost unquestionably) anyway, even if just listing achievements will always skew the consideration towards riders of longevity ahead of riders who had shorter careers for a variety of reasons. Jan Janssen and Miguel Indurain both retired at 32, for example, while people whose careers were curtailed by injury or illness (or, in the worst cases such as Monséré, death) are even harder to work out how to rate in any all time list.

Of the current péloton, Alejandro Valverde has, aside from the year and a half he spent on the shelf suspended, been one of the best riders in the world every year for 15 years. That puts him among pretty exalted company even if the number of wins in the very biggest races is perhaps lower than it might have been.

 

[ILovecycling]

In the end it will come down to classics vs GT's wins.For me a GT victory is worth morethan 1 monument victory,but for someone else it can be the other way around.

 

[jsem94]

Bala. Because I rate his many podiums and top placings in races too.

As has been said, I'd prefer to win one WC than top 3 6x, but I'd still go Bala. It's close though, and if Nibali adds another GT, monument, WC or Olympics, I'd probably go Nibali.

Edit:

But with Valverde's level, he should have won more big races IMHO. He has underachieved considering his massive talent.

Nibali, the opposite. He has overachieved. He's never been one of the best climbers in the world, never one of the best TTers. But he's found a way to win races due to his descending, balls, other riders being garbage or crashing out. But you can only beat what's in front of you and Vincenzo has done it on a number of occasions.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

In the end it will come down to classics vs GT's wins.For me a GT victory is worth morethan 1 monument victory,but for someone else it can be the other way around.

To you it's that simple. To me it isn't. Look at LS post above yours, I fully agree with everything posted there. It might give you some more explanation...

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

In the end it will come down to classics vs GT's wins.For me a GT victory is worth morethan 1 monument victory,but for someone else it can be the other way around.

To you it's that simple. To me it isn't. Look at LS post above yours, I fully agree with everything posted there. It might give you some more explanation...

I read it,I agree its generally complicated ...,I meant those 2 comparison because one of them is a one of the best GT riders of the last 15 years and the next one is the same (maybe better) but in classics.

 

[Red Rick]

Nibali. Higher quality of wins. I really think that's what matters when a palmares gets bigger. Valverde is crazy consistent, and his placings are something crazy, but I'm not gonna rate a guy who has won one unique monument and one GT over the rider who's won all GTs and has a monument win as well. They have the same amount of podiums in GTs and they're really at the point where the total amount of top 10 finishes shouldn't matter at all. The only placings that I really think matter in favour of Valverde are the WCs, but when I think back he's almost always done that by missing the winning move and then win or get close in the group sprint.

I think Valverdes raw talent is overrated, and that his consistency is underrated.

 

[Carols]

Nibali. But The Don sure is one grand racer!