Who has the best palmares: Valverde vs. Nibali

[Angliru]

Post retracted.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

But for me, a TdF is worth at least 5-6 monuments (I hope Echoes isn't reading this )

I think (hope) that virtually every cycling fan with vehemently oppose such nonsense, mate, not just Echoes

Don't blame it on your nationality by the way, last time I checked Paris and Roubaix are both located in France.

 

[Fernandez]

Im a Valverde fan but I go with Nibali in this one. He is in the reduced club of winners of the 3 GTs, and that its a great achievement. If the question is about cycling class, I go with Valverde.

 

[dastott]

Obviously Nibali. The Tour alone is worth most of Valverde's victories combined, plus 2 Giro. No contest. At their level placings in one day races and victories in minor local races (Burgos etc) are hardly worth mentioning. Plus Valverde's clinic issues...

 

[Valv.Piti]

But for me, a TdF is worth at least 5-6 monuments (I hope Echoes isn't reading this )

I think (hope) that virtually every cycling fan with vehemently oppose such nonsense, mate, not just Echoes

Don't blame it on your nationality by the way, last time I checked Paris and Roubaix are both located in France.

It depends. If you are sprinting for victory in 5 MSR's, I'd much rather have a Tour de France if its won 'the right way', in glorious fashion, a win to be remembered. But its a very hard job to assess how valuable they are to each other. Im leaning way more to the GT-biased and stage race fans in general.
Vuelta/Giro - 2 monuments
Tour - 3/4 monuments

 

[KyoGrey]

Considering only victories in GT's/monuments, Nibali gets the edge.

However, when you swim deep into the whole palmarés, including other races or podium spots Valverde may have the best palmarés of the whole peloton.

 

[IndianCyclist]

If we consider Valverde himself, he would give away his palmares for Nibali's. The amount of emotion that he has shown for podiums in GTs compared to the LBL and other wins is higher. Also while 2nd and 3rd places are good statistically, for top riders only the win matters based on the emotion that each rider shows on the podium.

 

[Breh]

Winning other races is routine for him. Podiuming all 3 GT's is not. He is well aware he is no top tier GT contender wheras LBL and FW are his personal playgrounds. He just had to wait waaay longer for these achievements while he already did the FW-LBL double 10years ago.

Saying Valverde likes Nibali's palmares better is pure speculation.

 

[jens_attacks]

Palmares,valverde win becaus good placings matter too for me

Emotion and better rider, nibali for sure

 

[12343S3]

To those who despise the monuments saying they are worth 1/2 or even 1/4 of a grand tour, think about the last rider who won both, a TdF and a P-R and what he said afterwards about the monument.

 

[ice&fire]

There are arguments in this thread in favour of each. Then there is the WT ranking in its different varieties along time and alternative rankings such as CQ ranking. Just pick the one that reinforces your opinion. Then we may open a separate thread to discuss about ranking computation methods.

 

[Pippo_San]

I was no fan of Bala before Puerto but I started to like him during his late career.
So yup I actually like both the riders.
I'd love to see Bala in a different team and environment tho.

Considering their careers, the difference in age (Nibbles has time to win multiple LBL), the different choices regarding teams (Nibbles switched while Bala has always been the sole leader at Movistar/Caisse D'Epargne/Whatever), the difference in style...

Well to me it's Nibbles by a mile.
And regarding the palmares...it's still Nibbles by two miles.

 

[barmaher]

I think it is a draw.

 

[matusow_m]

I take Bala everyday beacuse of the fashion he has won his victories over Nibali which biggest wins arent really that impressive considering they was relied upon stronger riders to have misfortune and not Nibali outclassing everyone hardcore allthough hes obvious been good. (Not only in the Giro win this year two stronger riders had to have missofortune for Nibali to be able to win, remmber tour 14? Not trying to bash him cause I like him and his style but just staying real here) That beeing said two cool riders but as I said Bala palmares beacuse of the fashion he won em!

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I take Bala everyday beacuse of the fashion he has won his victories over Nibali which biggest wins arent really that impressive considering they was relied upon stronger riders to have misfortune and not Nibali outclassing everyone hardcore allthough hes obvious been good. (Not only in the Giro win this year two stronger riders had to have missofortune for Nibali to be able to win, remmber tour 14? Not trying to bash him cause I like him and his style but just staying real here) That beeing said two cool riders but as I said Bala palmares beacuse of the fashion he won em!

He won a few sprints in big one day races?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

I take Bala everyday beacuse of the fashion he has won his victories over Nibali which biggest wins arent really that impressive considering they was relied upon stronger riders to have misfortune and not Nibali outclassing everyone hardcore. That beeing said two cool riders but as I said Bala palmares everyday beacuse of the fashion he won em!

You mean sucking wheels till the last possible moment and then sprint for the win (or second/third place)?

Valverde was there you know in the Tour of 2014 and this year's Giro... If Nibali's wins in those races aren't impressive then what does that make of Valverde?

Valverde also got owned in the Giro di Lombardia last year... By Vincenzo Nibali.

But if you're going to play the luck card then Valverde got lucky Cadel Evans had a mechanical in the Vuelta of 2009.

Bike handling is a key part of cycling. Kruijswijk's crash was his own mistake... And the way Froome was riding in 2014 he was never going to beat Nibali that year...

A lot of people on this forum also underestimate just how big a Tour win is...

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

If we consider Valverde himself, he would give away his palmares for Nibali's. The amount of emotion that he has shown for podiums in GTs compared to the LBL and other wins is higher. Also while 2nd and 3rd places are good statistically, for top riders only the win matters based on the emotion that each rider shows on the podium.

If Contador finished in the top 3 in RVV, I bet he'd be a lot more emotional on the podium than he would be on the podium if he won another Vuelta, simply because Grand Tour wins are routine now for AC, whereas RVV top 3 would be an extraordinary achievement considering his skillset. But is a top 3 in RVV better than a GT victory? (Don't let Echoes answer that question)

One day race wins are routine for Valverde, so it's no surprise that he's not as emotional. Not to mention that a 3 week race requires more effort concentration consistency etc, so there's an outflow of all that on the podium for Bala

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

If we consider Valverde himself, he would give away his palmares for Nibali's. The amount of emotion that he has shown for podiums in GTs compared to the LBL and other wins is higher. Also while 2nd and 3rd places are good statistically, for top riders only the win matters based on the emotion that each rider shows on the podium.

If Contador finished in the top 3 in RVV, I bet he'd be a lot more emotional on the podium than he would be on the podium if he won another Vuelta, simply because Grand Tour wins are routine now for AC, whereas RVV top 3 would be an extraordinary achievement considering his skillset. But is a top 3 in RVV better than a GT victory? (Don't let Echoes answer that question)

One day race wins are routine for Valverde, so it's no surprise that he's not as emotional. Not to mention that a 3 week race requires more effort concentration consistency etc, so there's an outflow of all that on the podium for Bala

Which is why the Tour and Giro are bigger wins than any Monument in cycling... Even the Vuelta these days. You could make an argument that the WC RR is bigger than the Giro, but that's about it.

 

[matusow_m]

Re: Re:

I take Bala everyday beacuse of the fashion he has won his victories over Nibali which biggest wins arent really that impressive considering they was relied upon stronger riders to have misfortune and not Nibali outclassing everyone hardcore. That beeing said two cool riders but as I said Bala palmares everyday beacuse of the fashion he won em!

You mean sucking wheels till the last possible moment and then sprint for the win (or second/third place)?

Valverde was there you know in the Tour of 2014 and this year's Giro... If Nibali's wins in those races aren't impressive then what does that make of Valverde?

Valverde also got owned in the Giro di Lombardia last year... By Vincenzo Nibali.

But if you're going to play the luck card then Valverde got lucky Cadel Evans had a mechanical in the Vuelta of 2009.

Bike handling is a key part of cycling. Kruijswijk's crash was his own mistake... And the way Froome was riding in 2014 he was never going to beat Nibali that year...

A lot of people on this forum also underestimate just how big a Tour win is...

I get how big a GT win is but if you read what im saying and have actually been watching nibalis biggest Gt wins arent that very impressive considering not only 1 rider had to withdraw for him to be the strongest but 2 in those but again I like Nibali im just staying real those GT wins are good obv but not necessarily that impressive all things taken into considerations!

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

I get how big a GT win is but if you read what im saying and have actually been watching nibalis biggest Gt wins arent that very impressive considering not only 1 rider had to withdraw for him to be the strongest but 2 in those but again I like Nibali im just staying real those GT wins are good obv but not necessarily that impressive all things taken into considerations!

Kruiswijk was the strongest on the climbs and rather solid in the time trial, but Nibali was the strongest rider overall (taking into account climbs + time trial + DESCENDING).

 

[Mr.White]

Somebody find me any kind of rankings in which Nibali is ahead of Valverde?!

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Somebody find me any kind of rankings in which Nibali is ahead of Valverde?!

None, as those rankings value 2nd and 3rd place as well as minor races more than most people on here. I don't think it's possible to be objective here, and it's mainly an opinion thing.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Somebody find me any kind of rankings in which Nibali is ahead of Valverde?!

Someone find me a ranking that people will give a damn about in 10 years.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Somebody find me any kind of rankings in which Nibali is ahead of Valverde?!

Someone find me a ranking that people will give a damn about in 10 years.

If occasional references to the past ranking systems in this forum indicates "giving a damn" then there you go....

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Somebody find me any kind of rankings in which Nibali is ahead of Valverde?!

Someone find me a ranking that people will give a damn about in 10 years.

Super Prestige Pernod.